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16 Jan 2010 02:23:21 < lindar> sadness
16 Jan 2010 02:23:49 < nalzu`egasn> vy. spoja
16 Jan 2010 02:28:29 < timonator> ma se badri doi lindar
16 Jan 2010 02:28:44 < timonator> lo nu la vesna cu spoja xu cu go'i
16 Jan 2010 02:30:19 -!- CodeBlock [n=CodeBloc@about/windows/regular/CodeBlock] has joined #lojban
16 Jan 2010 02:31:40 < CodeBlock> coi. (i think. Very new to lojban :P)
16 Jan 2010 02:36:27 < timonator> coi kodblok
16 Jan 2010 02:36:48 < timonator> xu do srana la djavar (you have something to do with Java?)
16 Jan 2010 02:37:00 < timonator> zo'o (heh, just kidding)
16 Jan 2010 02:37:05 < timonator> fi'i (welcome!)
16 Jan 2010 02:37:06 < nalzu`egasn> coi CodeBlock
16 Jan 2010 02:37:08 < CodeBlock> hehe :)
16 Jan 2010 02:37:42 < lindar> Hey, it's a cinon.
16 Jan 2010 02:37:56 < timonator> is that a type of food?
16 Jan 2010 02:37:57 < lindar> Shit, I'm mixing up my jbo and eo.
16 Jan 2010 02:38:07 < lindar> I tried to say cnino.
16 Jan 2010 02:38:11 < timonator> u'i sai (hahaha)
16 Jan 2010 02:38:33 < timonator> mi ba zi sevzi cavlu'i (i'm going to take a shower right now)
16 Jan 2010 02:38:38 < timonator> de'a jundi (AFK)
16 Jan 2010 02:38:40 < lindar> 1. Don't punctuate.
16 Jan 2010 02:38:41 < CodeBlock> have fun :P
16 Jan 2010 02:38:43 < lindar> 2. Don't capitalise.
16 Jan 2010 02:38:48 < lindar> 3. Welcome to Lojbanistan.
16 Jan 2010 02:39:06 < timonator> ki'e kodblok (thanks, CodeBlock)
16 Jan 2010 02:39:08 < lindar> Would you like a formal lesson?
16 Jan 2010 02:39:20 < CodeBlock> lindar: sure, why not
16 Jan 2010 02:39:42 < lindar> Head over to ##ckule
16 Jan 2010 02:41:37 < timonator> lindar: i'm begging you, conclude your lesson with "pleas voat five!!!!kkk"
16 Jan 2010 02:41:38 < timonator> :D
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16 Jan 2010 02:49:20 < lindar> Please vote five?
16 Jan 2010 02:49:32 < lindar> wtf?
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16 Jan 2010 02:53:41 < nalzu`egasn> I think it's time for sleep...
16 Jan 2010 02:53:45 < nalzu`egasn> co'o rodo
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16 Jan 2010 03:01:21 < timonator> lindar: it's from i don't know where
16 Jan 2010 03:01:37 < timonator> but some website where people submitted video-like things had a 1-5 star rating system
16 Jan 2010 03:01:45 < timonator> and some of them told you to "not forget to vote five!"
16 Jan 2010 03:01:56 < lindar> XD
16 Jan 2010 03:01:58 < timonator> i don't recall which one it was
16 Jan 2010 03:02:04 < timonator> but some made fun of it
16 Jan 2010 03:02:10 < timonator> and i found it hilarious
16 Jan 2010 03:02:40 < lindar> That's quite funny. I don't think I've heard of any kind of website where people submit video-like things that has a 1-5 star rating system.
16 Jan 2010 03:03:07 < lindar> Oh, btw, I found this really cool new band that I like a lot. Check them out! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqK1dE0FWo0
16 Jan 2010 03:04:23 < timonator> the video is funny
16 Jan 2010 03:05:01 < timonator> awesome beard, too
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16 Jan 2010 03:26:48 < lindar> No kidding. Coolest keyboard player of all time.
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16 Jan 2010 03:28:10 < timonator> i'd like to be able to throw myself at the floor or similar things without flinching at the pain it'd definitly cause
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16 Jan 2010 03:31:34 < lindar> They're a reeeeaaally cool band, but find an interview video and listen to how the lead singer speaks.
16 Jan 2010 03:31:36 < lindar> HILARIOUS.
16 Jan 2010 03:33:41 < timonator> oh my
16 Jan 2010 03:33:52 < timonator> he has a silly voice
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16 Jan 2010 05:45:17 < lindar> Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay done.
16 Jan 2010 05:47:08 < CodeBlock> lindar: \o/
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16 Jan 2010 05:53:56 < lindar> Sex.
16 Jan 2010 05:54:18 < lindar> NOW I think of a way to use nu without lo.
16 Jan 2010 05:54:27 < timonator> what is it?
16 Jan 2010 05:54:32 < lindar> *THUMPTHUMPTHUMPTHUMP* *GROOOOOOAAAAAAAN*
16 Jan 2010 05:54:44 < lindar> .i oisai ti mo
16 Jan 2010 05:54:59 < lindar> .i ti nu gletu vau .u'usai
16 Jan 2010 05:54:59 < timonator> pinji mi
16 Jan 2010 05:55:07 < timonator> oooh i get it
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16 Jan 2010 06:29:37 < vesna> coi rodo
16 Jan 2010 06:31:36 < vesna> mi banli loka gleki
16 Jan 2010 06:33:05 < vesna> mi benji le mi ka prami kei do'o
16 Jan 2010 06:35:50 < vesna> mi to'e se cinri
16 Jan 2010 06:36:15 < vesna> sa mi na'e se cinri
16 Jan 2010 06:37:06 < vesna> sa mi se tolzdi
16 Jan 2010 06:37:53 < timonator> ma prami ma
16 Jan 2010 06:38:08 < vesna> le mi mlatu ca ca'o batci vo'a za'ure'u
16 Jan 2010 06:38:36 < vesna> mi prami so'o da
16 Jan 2010 06:39:49 < vesna> did my second sentence after coi make sense?
16 Jan 2010 06:41:05 < vesna> ta'o lei do vitke mo
16 Jan 2010 06:41:30 < vesna> (do I need cu b4 mo?)
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16 Jan 2010 06:42:55 < timonator> yes, you can make tanru with mo
16 Jan 2010 06:42:58 -!- codrus [n=codrus@m670e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lojban
16 Jan 2010 06:43:09 < timonator> well, the sentence makes sense to an english person
16 Jan 2010 06:43:24 < timonator> benjiing properties is rather figurative
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16 Jan 2010 06:43:35 < timonator> my guests are going to arrive some time in the future
16 Jan 2010 06:43:42 < vesna> oh, then I'll use pe'a next time :)
16 Jan 2010 06:43:48 < vesna> oh
16 Jan 2010 06:44:00 < vesna> that's awfully specific :) (about your guests)
16 Jan 2010 06:44:27 < timonator> ;)
16 Jan 2010 06:44:38 < timonator> they'll possibly arrive at 17 o clock
16 Jan 2010 06:44:46 < timonator> which is in one and a quarter of an hour
16 Jan 2010 06:44:58 -!- codrus [n=codrus@m670e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Client Quit]
16 Jan 2010 06:45:00 < vesna> which is 18 oclock here :)
16 Jan 2010 06:45:08 < vesna> (GMT+1+1)
16 Jan 2010 06:45:39 < vesna> can you explain the diff between re'u and moi?
16 Jan 2010 06:45:59 < vesna> or even better, give another example for using re'u?
16 Jan 2010 06:46:11 -!- codrus [n=codrus@m5a0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lojban
16 Jan 2010 06:46:44 < timonator> easy
16 Jan 2010 06:46:51 < timonator> re'u says "something happens N times"
16 Jan 2010 06:46:58 < timonator> moi says "this is the Nth time it happens"
16 Jan 2010 06:47:04 < vesna> fi'i se'ixru no'u la codrus
16 Jan 2010 06:47:08 < timonator> with re'u parts of the N events can be in the future
16 Jan 2010 06:47:16 < vesna> hmm
16 Jan 2010 06:47:17 < timonator> but with moi you pinpoint exactly one
16 Jan 2010 06:47:22 < timonator> (the nth)
16 Jan 2010 06:47:25 < vesna> hmmm
16 Jan 2010 06:47:33 < vesna> can you exemplify re'u?
16 Jan 2010 06:47:37 < timonator> let's see
16 Jan 2010 06:47:37 < vesna> i.e. give an example
16 Jan 2010 06:47:38 < codrus> coi la vesna
16 Jan 2010 06:47:42 < vesna> coi ui
16 Jan 2010 06:48:02 < vesna> do mo
16 Jan 2010 06:48:06 < timonator> ko'a vo re'u darxi sance gasnu i ba zi bo do mrobi'o - ey will knock four times, then you die.
16 Jan 2010 06:49:01 < vesna> there's no future tense in your first selbri
16 Jan 2010 06:49:14 < vesna> isn't it "knocks"
16 Jan 2010 06:49:29 < vesna> ?
16 Jan 2010 06:49:33 < timonator> not necessarily
16 Jan 2010 06:49:53 < timonator> i didn't use the "i prophesize" word ;)
16 Jan 2010 06:50:00 < vesna> if you add a ba, does that mean all the knocks are in the future?
16 Jan 2010 06:50:10 < timonator> yeah
16 Jan 2010 06:50:13 < timonator> i think so
16 Jan 2010 06:50:21 < vesna> hmmm
16 Jan 2010 06:50:23 < timonator> i've never been very good with complex tenses
16 Jan 2010 06:50:32 < vesna> s'ok.. let me try
16 Jan 2010 06:51:19 < vesna> mi pu kafke ci re'u
16 Jan 2010 06:51:30 < vesna> => I coughed\farted 3 times
16 Jan 2010 06:51:36 < timonator> yes
16 Jan 2010 06:51:47 < vesna> cool
16 Jan 2010 06:51:52 < vesna> ki'esai
16 Jan 2010 06:52:37 < codrus> isn't that like, mi pu kafke ci re'u zo'e?
16 Jan 2010 06:53:11 < vesna> IMO yes, the zo'e is always implied. but what's the diff?
16 Jan 2010 06:53:12 < timonator> yeah, actually you'd usually put the tense before the selbri completely
16 Jan 2010 06:53:18 < timonator> there should be none
16 Jan 2010 06:53:24 < vesna> oh ok.
16 Jan 2010 06:53:46 < vesna> it's probably malglico to but the 3 times after the selbri
16 Jan 2010 06:53:51 < vesna> {put}
16 Jan 2010 06:54:49 < vesna> another question: can you give a (this time simple please) example of ni?
16 Jan 2010 06:55:54 < timonator> hm
16 Jan 2010 06:57:30 < timonator> not now, preparations for the visitment are taking place
16 Jan 2010 06:57:36 < vesna> oh ok
16 Jan 2010 06:57:40 < vesna> zenfri
16 Jan 2010 06:57:44 < vesna> zanfri
16 Jan 2010 06:57:51 < vesna> ko
16 Jan 2010 06:58:00 < vesna> whatever
16 Jan 2010 06:58:06 < vesna> :P
16 Jan 2010 06:58:41 < vesna> doi codrus le do donri pu mo
16 Jan 2010 07:04:05 < codrus> lo mi donri pu'o jai krasi .i ca'o mutce clira
16 Jan 2010 07:05:38 < vesna> ua
16 Jan 2010 07:05:57 < vesna> a'o le cerni cu xamgu ko
16 Jan 2010 07:05:59 < codrus> lo solri ba'o gapru lo te salpo
16 Jan 2010 07:06:39 < vesna> ui
16 Jan 2010 07:06:43 < vesna> je'e
16 Jan 2010 07:08:20 < vesna> xu do viska le te salpo lonu zvati ne'i le do zdani
16 Jan 2010 07:09:04 < codrus> gau do ba'o se mulno ma
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16 Jan 2010 07:11:10 < vesna> I'm not sure I understand. are you asking: for me, what has completed? meaning, what part of the day???
16 Jan 2010 07:13:07 < codrus> na go'i .i mi zvati lo xamsi ne'i lo mi barda karce .i di'i ui mi klama le xamsi ca lo cermurse
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16 Jan 2010 07:13:48 < codrus> "agent you--just in the future of the completion of what?"
16 Jan 2010 07:14:03 < vesna> u'e
16 Jan 2010 07:14:11 < codrus> ie "what have you recently finished doing?"
16 Jan 2010 07:14:27 < vesna> oh
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16 Jan 2010 07:14:43 < vesna> it's nice to see new kinds of sentences
16 Jan 2010 07:15:02 < dbrock> coi ro do
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16 Jan 2010 07:15:31 < codrus> fi'i daniel
16 Jan 2010 07:15:42 < codrus> pei
16 Jan 2010 07:15:53 < vesna> mi na mo'u gasnu so'o da ki'u mi milxe bilma .oi
16 Jan 2010 07:16:20 < vesna> {pu mo'u}
16 Jan 2010 07:16:27 < dbrock> .ui .i mi pu zi te benji lo cnino skami
16 Jan 2010 07:16:31 < vesna> {ki'u lenu}
16 Jan 2010 07:16:33 < dbrock> .i mutce pluka mi
16 Jan 2010 07:16:56 < vesna> .uidai doi dbrock
16 Jan 2010 07:17:07 < codrus> vesna: oiro'odai uinai
16 Jan 2010 07:17:25 < dbrock> .i la'oi iMac
16 Jan 2010 07:17:36 < vesna> ki'e codrus
16 Jan 2010 07:17:50 < dbrock> .i lo vidni cu co'e li re ze
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16 Jan 2010 07:19:21 < codrus> doi lazni vesna do'u cortu je'i bilma
16 Jan 2010 07:19:40 < vesna> 27inch screen?
16 Jan 2010 07:20:28 < vesna> nazbi .e stedu
16 Jan 2010 07:20:31 < vesna> to lenku toi
16 Jan 2010 07:20:51 < vesna> (cold is an english idiomatic, I believe)
16 Jan 2010 07:21:06 < vesna> maybe not
16 Jan 2010 07:21:30 < codrus> doi daniel .i uisaidai mi gleki lo nu do te benji la'e de'u
16 Jan 2010 07:22:02 < codrus> doi la vesna .i ua je'e
16 Jan 2010 07:23:03 < vesna> mi ca'o citka lo cmalu sanmi joi lo sansrketcyp
16 Jan 2010 07:24:12 < vesna> ku'i mi ji'a jundi
16 Jan 2010 07:25:24 < codrus> doi la vesna do cu'e cu bilma
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16 Jan 2010 07:26:32 < codrus> i probably could have omitted the {cu}
16 Jan 2010 07:26:37 < vesna> im not sure what your asking? the modal can be anthing
16 Jan 2010 07:26:58 < codrus> tense/modal
16 Jan 2010 07:27:11 < vesna> still dont get it
16 Jan 2010 07:27:12 < codrus> i think it's how you ask for a tense too. so like "how long"?
16 Jan 2010 07:27:38 < vesna> oh
16 Jan 2010 07:27:54 < vesna> that could have been interpreted in so many ways - vbery ambiguous
16 Jan 2010 07:28:09 < vesna> nevertheless:
16 Jan 2010 07:28:16 < vesna> ze'a\
16 Jan 2010 07:28:21 < codrus> yeah i think a lot of it is context
16 Jan 2010 07:28:25 < codrus> je'e
16 Jan 2010 07:28:35 < vesna> if thats any help :)
16 Jan 2010 07:28:44 < codrus> yep
16 Jan 2010 07:29:00 < codrus> of course that's so subjective  ugh
16 Jan 2010 07:29:09 < vesna> exactly :)
16 Jan 2010 07:29:14 < codrus> oh, so you've only been sick ~4 days then!
16 Jan 2010 07:29:22 < vesna> could I have answered with number of days?
16 Jan 2010 07:29:36 < codrus> yea
16 Jan 2010 07:29:37 < dbrock> {ze'a lo djedi be li vo}
16 Jan 2010 07:29:47 < vesna> hmm
16 Jan 2010 07:29:50 < codrus> ui
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16 Jan 2010 07:30:11 < vesna> I've got so much more to learn...
16 Jan 2010 07:30:27 < codrus> i think you got it right though
16 Jan 2010 07:30:49 < vesna> Isn't there a lojban word for "romantic"?
16 Jan 2010 07:31:06 < vesna> (ni'o)
16 Jan 2010 07:31:34 < dbrock> I'd say {pramykai}
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16 Jan 2010 07:32:13 < donri> prane lo ka melbi
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16 Jan 2010 07:32:58 < vesna> is that the renesance definition? (latter)
16 Jan 2010 07:33:10 < donri> romanticism is about idealizing beauty
16 Jan 2010 07:33:15 < vesna> yeah...
16 Jan 2010 07:33:26 < donri> be it romantic love, or something completely different
16 Jan 2010 07:33:30 < vesna> but not many people "get that" anymore
16 Jan 2010 07:33:35 < vesna> It has been thrown out of context
16 Jan 2010 07:34:16 < codrus> what do you think about {cinju'i}?
16 Jan 2010 07:34:38 < vesna> sexual attention?
16 Jan 2010 07:34:41 < vesna> that's more like lust
16 Jan 2010 07:34:53 < codrus> oh
16 Jan 2010 07:36:30 < codrus> pa'erkamymle
16 Jan 2010 07:37:14 < dbrock> I think you have to start by defining what you mean by "romantic"
16 Jan 2010 07:37:25 < dbrock> it can mean an array of things
16 Jan 2010 07:37:27 < vesna> doi codrus do simlu lo ka prane be lo ka melbi .i to tu'a cermurse
16 Jan 2010 07:37:31 < codrus> that was for donri's definition
16 Jan 2010 07:37:51 < vesna> mi bazi se'ixru u'u
16 Jan 2010 07:40:17 < codrus> doi daniel gau do puze'a mo
16 Jan 2010 07:40:22 < donri> i think my definition ultimately applies to all uses
16 Jan 2010 07:40:47 < donri> if you mean specifically "romantic love", maybe it's more lojbanic to say that directly.
16 Jan 2010 07:41:53 < donri> it's quite a meaningless concept though, idealistic and beautiful are somewhat synonymous
16 Jan 2010 07:43:27 < dbrock> .i mi jibri gunka gi'e jikca do'e lo pendo vau vau po'o nai doi .codrus.
16 Jan 2010 07:43:58 < lericson> är du
16 Jan 2010 07:44:12 < dbrock> .i fau lo nu jibri gunka ku finti lo cnino ke kibro papri be se va'u lo mi kagni
16 Jan 2010 07:45:14 < dbrock> donri: I think romantic love is mostly about giving each other flowers and having fancy dinners
16 Jan 2010 07:45:24 < dbrock> I don't really know much about it, but it's something like that
16 Jan 2010 07:45:49  * dbrock de'a jundi
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16 Jan 2010 07:46:21 < donri> which is idealizing the beauty in tradition
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16 Jan 2010 07:47:00 < donri> dbrock: which is idealizing the beauty in tradition
16 Jan 2010 07:47:13 < codrus> dbrock: you didn't have a selbri but mi jimpe
16 Jan 2010 07:47:54 < timonator> i should keep this setup. sofa empty, laptop screen on TV, table in front of sofa with a drink and maybe food
16 Jan 2010 07:47:57 < timonator> meganeat
16 Jan 2010 07:48:01 < dbrock> codrus: I didn't?  What did I say?
16 Jan 2010 07:48:06 < codrus> doi daniel do xu finti le pagri
16 Jan 2010 07:48:17 < codrus> {.i fau lo nu jibri gunka ku finti lo cnino ke kibro papri be se va'u lo mi kagni}
16 Jan 2010 07:49:08 < codrus> si papri
16 Jan 2010 07:49:53 < dbrock> {finti} is the selbri there
16 Jan 2010 07:50:08 < codrus> (you can tell I've been reading AIW again. she's always going down pagre u'i)
16 Jan 2010 07:50:28 < codrus> oh you're right. i read it as {ke}
16 Jan 2010 07:50:39 < dbrock> ah
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16 Jan 2010 07:52:10 < dbrock> .i mi joi lo drata cu finti doi .codrus.
16 Jan 2010 07:52:18 < dbrock> .i ca'o finti
16 Jan 2010 07:52:24 < codrus> ua
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16 Jan 2010 07:56:14 < codrus> ma nabmi doi daniel fi lo do kibro jorne
16 Jan 2010 07:58:58 < dbrock> .i na nabmi .i gau mi co'e
16 Jan 2010 07:59:14 < dbrock> .i krinu fa tu'a lo mi cnino skami
16 Jan 2010 08:00:06 < codrus> je'e
16 Jan 2010 08:01:09 < codrus> do pu ze'a xu pilno lo plise skami pe'a
16 Jan 2010 08:01:30 < dbrock> .i .ei mi terve'u lo jibri jubme se va'u lo mi zdani
16 Jan 2010 08:01:42 < dbrock> .i ca ku mi zutse lo sfofa
16 Jan 2010 08:01:49 < dbrock> .i na'e mutce pluka
16 Jan 2010 08:01:55 < codrus> je'e
16 Jan 2010 08:03:44 < codrus> lo plise ke skami ciste cu co'e
16 Jan 2010 08:03:56 < codrus> pe'a
16 Jan 2010 08:04:54 < dbrock> .u'i .i mo
16 Jan 2010 08:06:00 < codrus> do pu ze'a xu pilno lo plise ke skami ciste pe'a
16 Jan 2010 08:07:26 < dbrock> .i na go'i
16 Jan 2010 08:07:59 < dbrock> .i no roi ponse lo la plise ku skami
16 Jan 2010 08:08:27 < codrus> ua
16 Jan 2010 08:12:56 < codrus> ko fi mi pe'u baza cusku lo du'u xukau do pu nelci pilno le plise pe'a midyca'a
16 Jan 2010 08:13:50 < codrus> mi nu'o pilno ri gi'e kucli
16 Jan 2010 08:15:43 < vesna> xu su'o do djica tu'a la mambyl
16 Jan 2010 08:18:49 < codrus> la mumbl po mi ca'o spofu
16 Jan 2010 08:19:15 < vesna> .oisai ji'a go'i ra'o
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16 Jan 2010 08:20:13 < codrus> dbrock: btw, xalbo is test using {ni} as if it were {su'u se la'u ma kau} w/o a required ce'u
16 Jan 2010 08:25:50 < vesna> mi'e tatpi
16 Jan 2010 08:34:56 < dbrock> .i zo midyca'a lujvo fi ma
16 Jan 2010 08:36:14 < dbrock> .i mi nelci .i ku'i mi djica lo nu zmadu fi lo ka barda
16 Jan 2010 08:39:01 < codrus> zo midyca'a lujvo fi la'e zoi gy operating system gy
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16 Jan 2010 08:45:43 < codrus> i don't know if that's a good lujvo for it or not. but it's in the lujvo list as such
16 Jan 2010 08:46:51 < datka> coi rodo
16 Jan 2010 08:47:01 < dbrock> .ua
16 Jan 2010 08:47:09 < datka> How would I say "dinosaur" in lojban?
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16 Jan 2010 08:54:07 < codrus> i'm guessing something from really really old lizard
16 Jan 2010 08:54:10 < codrus> let me see
16 Jan 2010 08:55:29 < Twey> selteprespa, calque-wise
16 Jan 2010 08:56:24 < codrus> u'i
16 Jan 2010 08:59:42 < codrus> gods i hate jbovlasti. wasn't donri supposed to save us from this horror?
16 Jan 2010 09:01:44 < codrus> datka: check this out http://jbotcan.org/en/res/1186.html
16 Jan 2010 09:10:50 < datka> thanks. I wanted to say that we were going to the museum to see the dinosaurs
16 Jan 2010 09:15:08 < codrus> did you figure out how to say it?
16 Jan 2010 09:17:46 < datka> almost, I'm trying to remember how to fill the x2 slot of muzga
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16 Jan 2010 09:19:49 < codrus> lo <dinosaur> should be good
16 Jan 2010 09:20:30 < codrus> or are you doing it like {lo muzga be lo <dinosaur>}?
16 Jan 2010 09:23:13 < datka> I had "mi klama le muzga be le cpirespa"
16 Jan 2010 09:25:01 < codrus> i would change the {le}'s to {lo} because you haven't told the listener exactly what those mean yet. and i'd also add a time tense {ba}
16 Jan 2010 09:26:57 < datka> le lanzu be mi cu puza klama lo muzga be lo cpirespa
16 Jan 2010 09:27:50 < datka> sound good?
16 Jan 2010 09:27:57 < codrus> good. except that first {le} should be a {lo} too
16 Jan 2010 09:28:42 < codrus> and you don't need the {cu} because there's no  fear of {mi puza klama} forming a tanru
16 Jan 2010 09:28:59 < codrus> since {puza} cannot be in a tanru
16 Jan 2010 09:29:05 < datka> okay
16 Jan 2010 09:29:55 < codrus> you pretty much only want to use {le} after you've told the person what the {le} will be referring to. until you've told them you should stick with {lo} exclusively
16 Jan 2010 09:29:58 < dbrock> and cmavo clusters is a little passé
16 Jan 2010 09:30:22 < datka> what do you mean?
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16 Jan 2010 09:31:05 < dbrock> since we're nitpicking about every little part of what you said, I reccomend {pu za} over {puza}
16 Jan 2010 09:32:03 < datka> I prefer them broken up, but everywhere I've seen puts stuff like that together
16 Jan 2010 09:32:39 < codrus> i put time tenses together since i think it helps the eye scan the bridi faster
16 Jan 2010 09:33:15 < lericson> hhh
16 Jan 2010 09:34:04 < dbrock> it doesn't help me; it just takes me a little bit longer to break them apart into {pu za}
16 Jan 2010 09:34:05 < datka> I changed it to pu zi
16 Jan 2010 09:34:08 < datka> co'o
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16 Jan 2010 09:35:43 < dbrock> not that it matters much, though; once you know the language you're free to do whatever the hell you want as far as I'm concerned
16 Jan 2010 09:35:58 < dbrock> when you're learning, you better stick to the current standard practice
16 Jan 2010 09:37:14 < codrus> anyone played with gOS3 yet?
16 Jan 2010 09:37:53 < codrus> i think i'm going to see if i can play with it in virtualbox
16 Jan 2010 09:38:35 < dbrock> (just to make that clear, I didn't mean *you* as in {do})
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16 Jan 2010 09:39:22 < codrus> yeah whatever you jerk
16 Jan 2010 09:40:30 < codrus> they recommend 8GB of space. ... it's a lil chubby
16 Jan 2010 09:45:55 < dbrock> okay, I feel a little asperger right now
16 Jan 2010 09:46:36 < dbrock> I have no idea whether or not I offended you
16 Jan 2010 09:46:47 < codrus> no, that's my sense of humor
16 Jan 2010 09:46:52 < dbrock> seems like 50/50
16 Jan 2010 09:47:44 < dbrock> wow... it never occured to me how arbitrary humour must see to people who have difficulty understanding social contexts and signals and whatnot
16 Jan 2010 09:49:02 < codrus> i anticipate lojban's attitudinals are going to be a welcome for them
16 Jan 2010 09:49:14 < dbrock> yeah... probably
16 Jan 2010 09:49:21 < dbrock> although maybe not in this case
16 Jan 2010 09:49:34 < dbrock> humour is much too subtle to be expressed by attitudinals
16 Jan 2010 09:49:49 < dbrock> sure, you can mark you statement with {zo'o}
16 Jan 2010 09:50:20 < codrus> that's a good point. i thought of adding zo'o but then that would have taken some of the humor away
16 Jan 2010 09:51:05 < dbrock> exactly, so the inclusion or exclusion of {zo'o} just narrows it down like one step
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16 Jan 2010 09:51:24 < dbrock> if there is a {zo'o}, you know it's a joke
16 Jan 2010 09:51:39 < dbrock> but if there isn't a {zo'o}, you're on your own again
16 Jan 2010 09:52:01 < dbrock> so it's like 50/50 or whatever probabilty your intuition tells you
16 Jan 2010 09:52:11 < codrus> we'll have to ask cmacis what his opinion is from his perspective
16 Jan 2010 09:52:39 < dbrock> good idea
16 Jan 2010 09:52:57 < codrus> ai bazi se'ixru
16 Jan 2010 09:52:59 < codrus> co'o ro do
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16 Jan 2010 12:37:31 < varkiclaflo`i> coi
16 Jan 2010 12:49:30 < varkiclaflo`i> ui mi ba'o tcidu le gerna be la lojban
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16 Jan 2010 13:02:43 < varkiclaflo`i> ma djica lenu tavla mi soi vo'a
16 Jan 2010 13:12:03 < varkiclaflo`i> so... quiet.... nobody... doing... anything....
16 Jan 2010 13:12:15  * varkiclaflo`i wonders where everyone is and what they are doing
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16 Jan 2010 13:25:36  * varkiclaflo`i still wonders. He also says "co'o codrus" unless he comes back.
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16 Jan 2010 13:57:11 < CodeBlock> Gah, how do you say "does not" or the act of not doing, in lojban?
16 Jan 2010 13:59:59 < varkiclaflo`i> neither "na" nor "na'e"  work?
16 Jan 2010 14:00:44 < CodeBlock> varkiclaflo`i: That's what I was asking; I'm very new to lojban, so pardon my stupidity.
16 Jan 2010 14:03:38 < Dessous> Why would you say that noobism == stupidity?
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16 Jan 2010 14:05:04 < CodeBlock> Dessous: well - pardon my "ignorance", as I am still learning. Better? :P
16 Jan 2010 14:05:25 < Dessous> Yes, that's better
16 Jan 2010 14:05:43 < CodeBlock> .u'i/lol
16 Jan 2010 14:06:06  * CodeBlock goes off to code something
16 Jan 2010 14:11:07 < varkiclaflo`i> I am quite sorry if i was taken as rude.
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16 Jan 2010 14:30:34 < erw> .ua coi
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16 Jan 2010 14:32:15 < erw> has any of you guys looked at the Na'vi language?
16 Jan 2010 14:33:12 < varkiclaflo`i> not really. Why? Any defining features? or interesting ones?
16 Jan 2010 14:34:25 <@Broca> I visited the site. It's nice that all the vocab is in IPA.
16 Jan 2010 14:34:35 <@Broca> Planning on actually watching the film first, though.
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16 Jan 2010 14:36:13 < erw> I watched it in the cinema today.... for the fourth time... I'm crazy about it :-P
16 Jan 2010 14:36:35 < erw> starting to get the hang of a few na'vi words as well
16 Jan 2010 14:36:44 <@Broca> I've heard that some people lose the will to live after seeing it :-(
16 Jan 2010 14:36:45 < erw> without looking them up, I mean
16 Jan 2010 14:36:55 < erw> why?
16 Jan 2010 14:38:01 <@Broca> Something about the plot being a metaphor for capitalism destroying the Earth.
16 Jan 2010 14:38:19 < varkiclaflo`i> i've heard that too. u'i
16 Jan 2010 14:38:22 <@Broca> I don't fully understand it, and I'm not going to investigate it, for fear of spoiling the film.
16 Jan 2010 14:38:27 < varkiclaflo`i> hehehe
16 Jan 2010 14:40:15 < erw> not untrue, but go watch it :-)
16 Jan 2010 14:40:27 < erw> anyway, the language is pretty cool
16 Jan 2010 14:40:40 < dbrock_> what movie are you talking about?
16 Jan 2010 14:40:41 < erw> for example gender is optional
16 Jan 2010 14:40:44 < varkiclaflo`i> Avatar
16 Jan 2010 14:40:45 < erw> Avatar
16 Jan 2010 14:41:16 < Dessous> what do you mean optional?
16 Jan 2010 14:41:29 < varkiclaflo`i> gender need not be specified.
16 Jan 2010 14:41:40 < varkiclaflo`i> You don't _have_ to give a gender
16 Jan 2010 14:41:43 < erw> you can talk in 3rd person about someone without specifying gender
16 Jan 2010 14:41:57 < Dessous> Nothing special in that imo
16 Jan 2010 14:42:10  * varkiclaflo`i agrees
16 Jan 2010 14:42:48 < erw> (tsmuk, tsmukan, tsmuke) is (sibling, brother, sister)
16 Jan 2010 14:42:55 < erw> no, not unique
16 Jan 2010 14:43:15 < erw> but still not common any western languages afaik
16 Jan 2010 14:44:10 < varkiclaflo`i> but in non-Western languages?
16 Jan 2010 14:44:13 < varkiclaflo`i> more common
16 Jan 2010 14:44:20 < erw> do you know of any?
16 Jan 2010 14:44:50 < varkiclaflo`i> ...
16 Jan 2010 14:44:55  * varkiclaflo`i spoke too soon
16 Jan 2010 14:45:04  * varkiclaflo`i and didn't do the research
16 Jan 2010 14:45:18 < Dessous> Hmm, that's interesting. I don't know of any major language that doesn'tuse genders that way
16 Jan 2010 14:45:32 -!- codrus [n=codrus@m330e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lojban
16 Jan 2010 14:45:39 < Dessous> I mean any western
16 Jan 2010 14:46:09 < erw> and similar to lojban
16 Jan 2010 14:46:10 < varkiclaflo`i> co'o
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16 Jan 2010 14:46:42 < Twey> erw: Finnish
16 Jan 2010 14:46:51 < Dessous> But that's not a major language
16 Jan 2010 14:46:51 < Twey> Doesn't distinguish gender in pronouns
16 Jan 2010 14:47:08 < Twey> Depends how you define ‘major’
16 Jan 2010 14:47:11 < Twey> Lots of people speak it
16 Jan 2010 14:47:26 < erw> Twey: and Turkish as well
16 Jan 2010 14:47:40 < erw> which is a lot of people!
16 Jan 2010 14:47:42 < Dessous> Well, i thought we were talking about langauges that are widely used in more than 1 country
16 Jan 2010 14:47:56 < erw> he/she is "o" in Turkish
16 Jan 2010 14:48:07 < Twey> ‘Hän’ in Finnish
16 Jan 2010 14:48:24 < erw> but I don't think you can specify the gender of "o"
16 Jan 2010 14:48:33 < erw> ...by just a suffix or prefix
16 Jan 2010 14:48:48 < Twey> Yeah
16 Jan 2010 14:49:03 < Dessous> anyone know hungarian?
16 Jan 2010 14:50:00 < erw> similar to lojban, you can also say both "we including you" and "we excluding you" in na'vi
16 Jan 2010 14:50:17 < erw> I mean.. as single words meaning "we"
16 Jan 2010 14:50:29 < Dessous> Hey
16 Jan 2010 14:50:37 < Dessous> Estonian has "ta" which means he/she
16 Jan 2010 14:50:56 < Dessous> It also has "tema" = he
16 Jan 2010 14:51:03 < erw> ok, cool
16 Jan 2010 14:51:05 < Dessous> But has no word for she exclusively afaik
16 Jan 2010 14:51:13 < erw> weird
16 Jan 2010 14:51:39 < erw> kinda non-symmetrical
16 Jan 2010 14:52:11 < Dessous> Well, many languages are masculine
16 Jan 2010 14:52:27 < erw> as in french where "ils" is "they" as a group of males or a mixed group whereas "elles" must be 100% females
16 Jan 2010 14:52:58 < erw> iirc
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16 Jan 2010 14:54:08 < erw> hmm... how do you attach gender to pro-sumti?
16 Jan 2010 14:56:03 < erw> if you do at all... does it have to be in context?
16 Jan 2010 14:56:14 < Dessous> Hmm, it seems taht "ta" = "tema", so Estonian is like Finnish, Hungarian and Turkish in that regard
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16 Jan 2010 15:01:46 < erw> are they different in any other regard?
16 Jan 2010 15:02:10 < Dessous> what do you mean
16 Jan 2010 15:02:19 < erw> "te" and "tema"
16 Jan 2010 15:02:25 < Dessous> imo they are exactly the same
16 Jan 2010 15:02:56 < erw> err.. yeah, my q should have been "are they different at all?" which you just answered
16 Jan 2010 15:03:22 < erw> do you know anyone who speaks it?
16 Jan 2010 15:03:33 < Dessous> no
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16 Jan 2010 15:10:36 < erw> heh, some time mr. cameron, the director of avatar, said that na'vi would "out-klingon klingon". it was probably just to get some attention, but that remark is still pretty funny :-)
16 Jan 2010 15:11:31 < codrus> heh
16 Jan 2010 15:18:52 < erw> the same-length-ness of gismu is getting on my nerves
16 Jan 2010 15:20:12 < Pasqual|on> coi
16 Jan 2010 15:21:02 < Dessous> coi
16 Jan 2010 15:21:20 < Dessous> erw why
16 Jan 2010 15:22:55 < erw> hmm, I guess because they are harder to distinguish
16 Jan 2010 15:23:09 < erw> and because it is so rule-bound
16 Jan 2010 15:23:20 < erw> which has a perfectly valid reason, I know :-)
16 Jan 2010 15:23:49 < erw> but it's as if lojban - interesting as it is - is lacking beauty
16 Jan 2010 15:24:18 < erw> well, not missing mathematical beauty
16 Jan 2010 15:24:38 < erw> but aesthetic beauty
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16 Jan 2010 15:33:56 < Twey> erw: You get over it
16 Jan 2010 15:34:02 < Twey> Make lujvo.  ☺
16 Jan 2010 15:34:09 < Twey> lujvo are pretty.
16 Jan 2010 15:35:44 < erw> true.. but I can't just use lujvo instead of tanru unless knowing what the lujvo exactly means
16 Jan 2010 15:36:26 < erw> plus, people probably know a lot more gismu than rafsi
16 Jan 2010 15:36:41 < erw> so the chance of being understood is a lot better with tanru :-P
16 Jan 2010 15:42:51 < erw> removing spaces from cmavo clusters also makes for more varying word lengths (visually, ofc they're still the same words)... but it also adds some percent to the decoding time of the audience
16 Jan 2010 15:43:18 < donri> the beauty of lojban, i say, lies in creative use of the flexible structures
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16 Jan 2010 15:46:41 < erw> I think I know what you mean, but can you expand on that?
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16 Jan 2010 15:47:18 < donri> you can say such weird things, with perfectly sensible meanings, and it just comes naturally, at least after a while
16 Jan 2010 15:48:28 < donri> second sleeping pill is starting to exert itself
16 Jan 2010 15:48:43 < donri> night people
16 Jan 2010 15:48:53 < erw> goodnight
16 Jan 2010 15:49:24 < erw> yeah, you can make awesome constructions in lojban :)
16 Jan 2010 15:50:15 < donri> mi se pinji lo xagji be do
16 Jan 2010 15:52:25 < erw> ooooooo... kay :-P
16 Jan 2010 15:53:17 < donri> sei na'e bo mi se voksa
16 Jan 2010 15:54:32 < erw> I don't know enough lojban to understand that (luckily?)
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16 Jan 2010 15:57:36 < Pasqual|on> I am learning loglan
16 Jan 2010 15:58:32 < Pasqual|on> mi cu cilre loglan
16 Jan 2010 15:58:47 < Pasqual|on> right?
16 Jan 2010 16:00:17 < lindar> UGH
16 Jan 2010 16:00:17 < lindar> NO
16 Jan 2010 16:00:20 < lindar> You don't need cu there!
16 Jan 2010 16:00:23 < lindar> Bad cnino!
16 Jan 2010 16:00:24 < lindar> No biscuit!
16 Jan 2010 16:00:37 < lindar> Who taught you that?
16 Jan 2010 16:01:32 < Pasqual|on> it's optional
16 Jan 2010 16:02:27 < lindar> Also, you forgot la, you forgot your dotside, and we're called Lojban. =D
16 Jan 2010 16:02:43 < lindar> It's not optional, by the way, it's excessive.
16 Jan 2010 16:02:55 < lindar> You don't need {cu} there because there's nothing to terminate.
16 Jan 2010 16:03:12 < CodeBlock> coi la .lindar.
16 Jan 2010 16:03:13 < CodeBlock> :D
16 Jan 2010 16:03:43  * CodeBlock doesn't think he needed some one of those .'s but oh well
16 Jan 2010 16:03:57 < CodeBlock> you knew what I meant =P
16 Jan 2010 16:05:36 < lindar> Yours was parfek, CodeBlock.
16 Jan 2010 16:05:59 < CodeBlock> lindar: isn't the first . for names optional if it isn't a vowel?
16 Jan 2010 16:06:04 < CodeBlock> (the first letter of said name)
16 Jan 2010 16:06:16 < lindar> No, that's part of the dotside rule. It allows for a wider number of names in Lojban morphology.
16 Jan 2010 16:06:28 < treed> Who wants to help me with this translation?
16 Jan 2010 16:06:38 < treed> I think I could finish it today with help.
16 Jan 2010 16:06:40 < lindar> Another added advantage is that if you're quoting a name with selma'o COI, you don't need to use la.
16 Jan 2010 16:06:50 < lindar> coi .lindar.  <----wholly appropriate
16 Jan 2010 16:06:54 < lindar> However!
16 Jan 2010 16:07:05 < lindar> coi xalbo = coi lo xalbo ku
16 Jan 2010 16:07:07 < CodeBlock> lindar: ah. One site I was reading said it is only *required* if the first letter of the cmene was a vowel
16 Jan 2010 16:07:12 < treed> no it doesn't
16 Jan 2010 16:07:17 < treed> It's coi la xalbo
16 Jan 2010 16:07:20 < lindar> treed, you're a big fat liar.
16 Jan 2010 16:07:24 < treed> Oh?
16 Jan 2010 16:07:37 < lindar> Refgram link or it didn't happen.
16 Jan 2010 16:07:40 < treed> [citation needed]
16 Jan 2010 16:07:48 < lindar> I cite usage.
16 Jan 2010 16:08:42 < lindar> Quite frequently I've seen things like {doi mabla} and so on to mean {doi lo mabla}.
16 Jan 2010 16:08:56 < treed> Are you sure that's what it was intended to mean?
16 Jan 2010 16:09:01 < treed> Or is that just what you thought it meant?
16 Jan 2010 16:10:58 < treed> Turns out we were both wrong.
16 Jan 2010 16:11:08 < treed> In place of a name, a description may appear, lacking its descriptor, which is understood to be ``le'':
16 Jan 2010 16:11:12 < treed> 6.11
16 Jan 2010 16:12:25 < treed> Anyway.
16 Jan 2010 16:12:30 < treed> Who wants to help with this translation.
16 Jan 2010 16:14:20 < Pasqual|on> right sentence is: "mi cilre la lojban"? lindar
16 Jan 2010 16:15:33 < Twey> treed: xalbo gets angry if you say ‘coi xalbo’.
16 Jan 2010 16:15:49 < treed> fi la lojban
16 Jan 2010 16:15:54 < treed> cilre2 is the fact you learned
16 Jan 2010 16:15:57 < treed> cilre3 is the subject
16 Jan 2010 16:16:10 < treed> mi cilre fi la lojban
16 Jan 2010 16:16:17 < Twey> treed: What translation is it now?
16 Jan 2010 16:16:23 < treed> Twey: Legend of Zelda
16 Jan 2010 16:16:30 < treed> A bunch of it was already done.
16 Jan 2010 16:16:41 < treed> But I'm fixing things I did wrong, and finishing the things I didn't translate.
16 Jan 2010 16:16:44 < lindar> Pasqual|on, yes that's correct.
16 Jan 2010 16:16:47 < Twey> Oh, I thought you had a specific question
16 Jan 2010 16:16:49 < lindar> wait
16 Jan 2010 16:16:50 < lindar> no
16 Jan 2010 16:16:57 < treed> lindar: Didn't you see what I just said?
16 Jan 2010 16:17:04 < lindar> x2 is facts (du'u)
16 Jan 2010 16:17:16 < treed> Twey: I mostly just want collaboration.
16 Jan 2010 16:17:25 < lindar> I didn't see what you said. Sorry.
16 Jan 2010 16:17:26 < treed> like, "here's what I have" then discussion
16 Jan 2010 16:17:58 < Pasqual|on> thx
16 Jan 2010 16:18:03 < treed> "GRUMBLE, GRUMBLE..." to ".oiro'oru'ebe'u"
16 Jan 2010 16:18:05 < treed> for instance
16 Jan 2010 16:18:08 < treed> unsure about the ru'e
16 Jan 2010 16:19:07 < Pasqual|on> ki'e
16 Jan 2010 16:25:32 < codrus> treed: can you tell me when it's done? i'll play it
16 Jan 2010 16:25:52 < Twey> I'd stay with it
16 Jan 2010 16:26:04 < Twey> Grumbling isn't a loud complaint
16 Jan 2010 16:26:05 < treed> codrus: Heh. k
16 Jan 2010 16:26:21 < treed> Well, I'm not even sure if he's supposed to be saying it.
16 Jan 2010 16:26:24 < Twey> Also, I like how ‘.oiro'oru'ebe'u’ has a sort of grumbling quality to it
16 Jan 2010 16:26:27 < treed> In the game, it means that he's hungry.
16 Jan 2010 16:26:36 < Twey> Yeah
16 Jan 2010 16:26:36 < treed> so you need to go find food for him
16 Jan 2010 16:26:54 < treed> okay, so keeping that
16 Jan 2010 16:27:04 < treed>   EASTMOST PENNINSULA
16 Jan 2010 16:27:05 < treed>      IS THE SECRET.
16 Jan 2010 16:27:05 < treed> -
16 Jan 2010 16:27:05 < treed>   le traji bo stuna
16 Jan 2010 16:27:05 < treed>  xabyplu cu jai mipri
16 Jan 2010 16:27:52 < Pasqual|on> on http://www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/gismu_english_order.txt
16 Jan 2010 16:28:39 < Pasqual|on> where I know the meaning of 2nd to 4th rows
16 Jan 2010 16:28:51 < lindar> Pasqual|on, do you want me to just teach you Lojban?
16 Jan 2010 16:29:55 < Pasqual|on> :?
16 Jan 2010 16:31:22 < lindar> Cos it looks like you're struggling and learning things incorrectly.
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16 Jan 2010 16:36:18 < Pasqual|on> heh
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16 Jan 2010 16:36:42 < Pasqual|on> it was my first sentence in lojban
16 Jan 2010 16:40:09 < lindar> Well, the offer is on the table if you'd like a formal(ish) structured lesson.
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16 Jan 2010 16:57:52 < nalzu`egasn> Simple question
16 Jan 2010 16:58:39 < nalzu`egasn> do "vo'a" and company refer to the sumti of the current bridi, or the main bridi of the utterance
16 Jan 2010 16:58:40 < nalzu`egasn> like
16 Jan 2010 16:59:19 < nalzu`egasn> if I say "mi djica lenu do cuska vo'a"
16 Jan 2010 16:59:25 < nalzu`egasn> what am I saying?
16 Jan 2010 16:59:59 < nalzu`egasn> um
16 Jan 2010 17:00:14 < nalzu`egasn> s/cuska/cusku
16 Jan 2010 17:03:24 < nalzu`egasn> .uinai
16 Jan 2010 17:03:33 < nalzu`egasn> no da mi prami
16 Jan 2010 17:05:53 < IAmTheMrGuy> Sorry, I woul answer your question, but I'm a complete amateur in Lojban
16 Jan 2010 17:05:59 < IAmTheMrGuy> would*
16 Jan 2010 17:07:07 < treed> sometimes we're busy
16 Jan 2010 17:07:50 < treed> I believe vo'a in that case would be do
16 Jan 2010 17:08:03 < treed> But I'm not certain.
16 Jan 2010 17:08:06 < nalzu`egasn> that's all right, I'm really fishing for lindar anyway, since he has _opinions_
16 Jan 2010 17:08:15 < treed> Yep.
16 Jan 2010 17:08:16 < nalzu`egasn> but yeah, I agree with you treed
16 Jan 2010 17:08:21 < treed> Lindar has plenty of opinions, but rarely facts.
16 Jan 2010 17:08:49 < nalzu`egasn> ha
16 Jan 2010 17:08:57 < nalzu`egasn> he must not be watching...
16 Jan 2010 17:09:03 < treed> So.
16 Jan 2010 17:09:21 < treed> DODONGO DISLIKES SMOKE.=la .dodan. ka'e spoja
16 Jan 2010 17:09:45 < nalzu`egasn> u'isai
16 Jan 2010 17:09:54 < treed> good translation or not?
16 Jan 2010 17:10:03 < treed> The original English was bad
16 Jan 2010 17:10:03 < treed> so
16 Jan 2010 17:10:11 < nalzu`egasn> .i'esai
16 Jan 2010 17:10:15 < treed> It's meant as a hint to you to use bombs.
16 Jan 2010 17:10:35 < nalzu`egasn> oh, I am quite aware
16 Jan 2010 17:11:03 < nalzu`egasn> I always loved that translation though, secretly
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16 Jan 2010 17:13:20 < treed>  DID YOU GET THE SWORD
16 Jan 2010 17:13:21 < treed>  FROM THE OLD MAN ON
16 Jan 2010 17:13:21 < treed>  TOP OF THE WATERFALL?
16 Jan 2010 17:13:21 < treed> -
16 Jan 2010 17:13:21 < treed>    xu do terdu'a lo
16 Jan 2010 17:13:23 < treed>  cladakyxa'i le tolci'o
16 Jan 2010 17:13:25 < treed>  nanmu ga'u lo jacfa'u
16 Jan 2010 17:13:39 < treed> Seems pretty good
16 Jan 2010 17:14:39 < treed>      WALK INTO THE
16 Jan 2010 17:14:39 < treed>        WATERFALL.
16 Jan 2010 17:14:39 < treed> -
16 Jan 2010 17:14:39 < treed>   ko cadzu mo'ine'i
16 Jan 2010 17:14:40 < treed>      lo jacfa'u
16 Jan 2010 17:14:44 < treed> also seems pretty good
16 Jan 2010 17:14:52 < nalzu`egasn> yeah
16 Jan 2010 17:17:02 < treed>   SECRET POWER IS SAID
16 Jan 2010 17:17:03 < treed>    TO BE IN THE ARROW.
16 Jan 2010 17:17:03 < treed> -
16 Jan 2010 17:17:03 < treed>    lo ga'ardanti cu
16 Jan 2010 17:17:03 < treed>     selmipri vlipa
16 Jan 2010 17:17:44 < treed> don't like that one
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16 Jan 2010 17:36:01 < nalzu`egasn> co'o
16 Jan 2010 17:36:05 < nalzu`egasn> mi ve skina
16 Jan 2010 17:36:07 < omologos> co'o
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16 Jan 2010 17:41:47 < lindar> Face.
16 Jan 2010 17:47:37 -!- ivan [n=ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [K-lined]
16 Jan 2010 17:48:55 < mefistof1les> woo another one bites the durs
16 Jan 2010 17:48:57 < mefistof1les> dust*
16 Jan 2010 17:56:26 < lindar> Fail.
16 Jan 2010 17:56:32 < mefistof1les> yah :(
16 Jan 2010 17:56:33 < lindar> I'm bored now.
16 Jan 2010 18:03:27 < lindar> DESTROY!
16 Jan 2010 18:03:34 < lindar> Okay, somebody help me out with this translation project.
16 Jan 2010 18:04:01 < lindar> ...and I have no idea how to access the GIT repository for Gnome, so I don't know where I'm supposed to be getting the .po/.pot files to be translated. Could somebody maybe help me out with that? =D
16 Jan 2010 18:16:11 -!- Pasqual|on [n=pasqual@wikipedia/pasqual] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"]
16 Jan 2010 18:17:15 < kpreid> Hmm...
16 Jan 2010 18:18:38 < kpreid> lindar: Did you mean 'I see the repository, I don't know what to do with it' or 'I don't know where it is'?
16 Jan 2010 18:18:59 < lindar> Both. =D
16 Jan 2010 18:19:02 < omologos> lindar: i'll give it some work tomorrow
16 Jan 2010 18:19:24 < kpreid> lindar: Well, have you installed Git?
16 Jan 2010 18:19:28 < omologos> but i must insist, that a mailing list is not the best way to make this work
16 Jan 2010 18:20:11 < kpreid> lindar: OK, I just found a guide-for-translators: http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/GitHowTo
16 Jan 2010 18:20:29 < kpreid> But that seems to assume you have a account.
16 Jan 2010 18:21:02 < kpreid> If that's so, well, there you go.
16 Jan 2010 18:22:30 < kpreid> Ah. The no-private-account way to grab a repository is git clone git://git.gnome.org/PACKAGENAMEHERE
16 Jan 2010 18:22:50 < kpreid> lindar: Is this helping yet?
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16 Jan 2010 18:34:21 < lindar> Yes, I believe this is helping me to some extent.
16 Jan 2010 18:36:30 < lindar> Is git a thing I need to download?
16 Jan 2010 18:41:09 < treed> yes
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16 Jan 2010 18:51:29 < pafcribe> coi rodo
16 Jan 2010 18:51:38 < lindar> coooooooi
16 Jan 2010 18:52:10 < pafcribe> .i mi pu cilre lo du'u zo xalfenki smuni zoi .gy drunk .gy
16 Jan 2010 18:52:22 < pafcribe> .yy puzi go'i
16 Jan 2010 18:52:38 < lindar> xalfenki?
16 Jan 2010 18:52:39 < pafcribe> .ije mi la'e se go'i
16 Jan 2010 18:52:43 < lindar> xalbebna
16 Jan 2010 18:52:54 < pafcribe> .ua
16 Jan 2010 18:53:24 < pafcribe> mi pensi lo nu fenki cu valsi cizra
16 Jan 2010 18:53:54 < pafcribe> sa mi pensi lo nu zo fenki cu cizra
16 Jan 2010 18:54:18 < lindar> o_____________________________o
16 Jan 2010 18:54:24 < lindar> .I MI NA JIMPE
16 Jan 2010 18:54:46 < pafcribe> zoi .gy I thought that fenki was a weird choice of word to use in a lujvo to mean "drunk" .gy
16 Jan 2010 18:55:12 < lindar> .I NA JIMPE
16 Jan 2010 18:55:32 < pafcribe> o'onairu'e
16 Jan 2010 18:55:34 < lindar> .I MI NA KAKNE LO NU LOJBO TAVLA
16 Jan 2010 18:55:43 < pafcribe> .uecai
16 Jan 2010 18:55:54 < pafcribe> do na kakne lo nu jbotavla
16 Jan 2010 18:56:28 < pafcribe> .iku'i je'u go'i .yyyy .i ma tadji lo nu do puzi tavla bau lojban
16 Jan 2010 18:56:38 < pafcribe> gah
16 Jan 2010 18:56:50 < pafcribe> if you cant talk in lojban how do you speak in lojban?
16 Jan 2010 18:56:54 < lindar> SALUTON MIAJ AMIKOJ
16 Jan 2010 18:57:22 < lindar> PAROLAS ESPERANTON?
16 Jan 2010 18:57:26 < pafcribe> xu do na glibaupre
16 Jan 2010 18:57:40 < treed> Vi forgesis "cxu".
16 Jan 2010 18:57:46 < lindar> >_>
16 Jan 2010 18:57:51 < lindar> Treed, you speak Eo?
16 Jan 2010 18:57:57 < treed> Yeah.
16 Jan 2010 18:58:02 < treed> Not as well as lojban.
16 Jan 2010 18:58:06 < pafcribe> eo?
16 Jan 2010 18:58:10 < treed> I can never stick with it very long because the community sucks.
16 Jan 2010 18:58:12 < treed> Esperanto
16 Jan 2010 18:58:20 < lindar> I kinda get that feeling as well.
16 Jan 2010 18:58:27 < lindar> They just bitch all the time about everything.
16 Jan 2010 18:58:41 < pafcribe> like what?
16 Jan 2010 18:58:48 < treed> And are super-socialist.
16 Jan 2010 18:59:24 < lindar> Yeah. >_>
16 Jan 2010 18:59:24 < pafcribe> what assholes
16 Jan 2010 18:59:41 < lindar> Then they bitch about you being a crocodile or something. >_>
16 Jan 2010 18:59:51 < pafcribe> a crocodile?
16 Jan 2010 19:00:10 < pafcribe> I'm drunk off my ass and that doesn't make sense even to me
16 Jan 2010 19:02:07 < treed> Crocodile is a term for non-esperntists.
16 Jan 2010 19:02:09 < treed> Well, krokodilo.
16 Jan 2010 19:02:18 < pafcribe> that seems condoscending
16 Jan 2010 19:02:24 < pafcribe> (sp?)
16 Jan 2010 19:02:32 < treed> condescending
16 Jan 2010 19:02:41 < pafcribe> thank you
16 Jan 2010 19:03:30 < lindar> No, it's a term for somebody that speaks another language when Esperanto would be more appropriate.
16 Jan 2010 19:04:05 < lindar> I'm just starting to learn Esperanto because, well, it's fairly interesting, and I can steal their ideas. =D
16 Jan 2010 19:04:31 < lindar> Okay, now how do I use Git? I think I've installed it.
16 Jan 2010 19:05:13  * neptunepink has obtained the Captain's Hat
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16 Jan 2010 19:08:38 < lindar> >_>
16 Jan 2010 19:08:41 < lindar> I need heeeeeeeelp.
16 Jan 2010 19:09:01 < pafcribe> I feel like my conversational lojban would be about 3 billion times better if I knew the discursives/evidentialls
16 Jan 2010 19:09:16 < pafcribe> also, I'm surprised that you can't find more info on google lindar
16 Jan 2010 19:09:19 < treed> git clone url
16 Jan 2010 19:09:26 < pafcribe> git is really popular recently
16 Jan 2010 19:09:29 < treed> progit.org
16 Jan 2010 19:09:31 < treed> book online
16 Jan 2010 19:09:32 < treed> read it
16 Jan 2010 19:09:35 < treed> be enlightened
16 Jan 2010 19:10:52 < lindar> >_>
16 Jan 2010 19:11:05 < lindar> You can't just explain it to me? I have to go read something?
16 Jan 2010 19:12:07 < treed> It's really not something you can just pick up.
16 Jan 2010 19:12:20 < treed> Especially if you're not used to versioning systems.
16 Jan 2010 19:12:27 < pafcribe> haha, lindar you lazy bastard
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16 Jan 2010 19:13:41 < pafcribe> coi klaid
16 Jan 2010 19:16:10 < codrus> http://selckiku.tumblr.com/post/335716291/zae-mlebau
16 Jan 2010 19:18:19 < lindar> >_>
16 Jan 2010 19:18:26 < lindar> Well, feh.
16 Jan 2010 19:18:38 < lindar> I kinda need to learn this.
16 Jan 2010 19:18:54 < lindar> So if there's a "Git for stupid gits." out there, I'd love a link.
16 Jan 2010 19:19:08  * lindar jfgi.
16 Jan 2010 19:19:33 < neptunepink> That would be a swell document.
16 Jan 2010 19:19:58 < lindar> http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/GitHowTo I'm not really sure what this is telling me, though it seems to go over the basics.
16 Jan 2010 19:20:08 < lindar> How do I know what package name to put in there?
16 Jan 2010 19:22:33 < lindar> I have a feeling that this is the kind of thing that I could seriously fuck up if I don't know what I'm doing.
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16 Jan 2010 19:24:12 < codrus> i forgot how to say "sometimes"
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16 Jan 2010 19:24:53 < codrus> su'oza'u?
16 Jan 2010 19:32:46 < pafcribe> haha
16 Jan 2010 19:32:56 < pafcribe> I have a little app that I wrote to help me look up words
16 Jan 2010 19:33:17 < pafcribe> and su'o came out as a lujvo of su'o and zargu
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16 Jan 2010 19:33:33 < Sonja> coi
16 Jan 2010 19:33:57 < pafcribe> coi sonja
16 Jan 2010 19:34:44 < Sonja> what's up with the premu's today?
16 Jan 2010 19:34:49 < Sonja> can you teach me lojban?
16 Jan 2010 19:36:10 < lindar> Me?
16 Jan 2010 19:36:48 < lindar> Sorry for the delay, you came right when I was cooking.
16 Jan 2010 19:36:54 < lindar> Did you want a lesson in Lojban?
16 Jan 2010 19:37:20 < Sonja> please
16 Jan 2010 19:37:28 < lindar> Well, head over to ##ckule
16 Jan 2010 19:37:30 < Sonja> can you teach me the parts of speech first?
16 Jan 2010 19:38:13 < neptunepink> Well, there's the gletubu...
16 Jan 2010 19:38:55 < lindar> xD
16 Jan 2010 19:39:46 -!- mefistof1les is now known as mefistofeles
16 Jan 2010 19:40:32 < pafcribe> what's gletubu?
16 Jan 2010 19:40:38 < pafcribe> wait just a sec
16 Jan 2010 19:40:45 < pafcribe> would that be the charactor that represents sex?
16 Jan 2010 19:40:49 < pafcribe> (whatever that is)
16 Jan 2010 19:44:08 -!- lindar [n=lindarth@rrcs-173-196-20-139.west.biz.rr.com] has quit ["Hah, internet."]
16 Jan 2010 19:44:25 < Sonja> does anybody haev lindar's email?
16 Jan 2010 19:45:08 < pafcribe> no, he's on now though so you could probably ask him for it
16 Jan 2010 19:45:09 < neptunepink> lindarthebard at gmail>
16 Jan 2010 19:45:17 < neptunepink> *?
16 Jan 2010 19:45:50 < pafcribe> oh
16 Jan 2010 19:45:55 < Sonja> no she quit
16 Jan 2010 19:46:15 < pafcribe> I never knew that lindar had a husband (didn't even know that lindar was female/homosexual)
16 Jan 2010 19:46:31 < pafcribe> oh, so I see over in #ckuklle
16 Jan 2010 19:46:44 < pafcribe> so sonja, are you interested in learning lojban or are you just a trol?
16 Jan 2010 19:46:50 < Sonja> i'm interested
16 Jan 2010 19:46:55 < Sonja> and i hurt linda's feelings
16 Jan 2010 19:46:56 < Sonja> so i want to email her
16 Jan 2010 19:46:58 < Sonja> to apologize
16 Jan 2010 19:47:06 < pafcribe> lojban has a different way of talking about parts of speech since natual languages kind of made stuff up as they went
16 Jan 2010 19:47:09 < pafcribe> oh, I see
16 Jan 2010 19:47:15 < pafcribe> well that's awfully decent of you
16 Jan 2010 19:47:22 < Sonja> i wanted to move on to the other parts of speech but lindar kept insisting i use obscure lojban terms in english instead of letting me use the plain english terms
16 Jan 2010 19:47:41 < Hugglesworth> just hang around, lindar has a history of blowing stuff out of perpotion
16 Jan 2010 19:47:46 < pafcribe> she may have just had a bad night.  when learning lojban the important thing to remember is that everything (including parts of speech) are thought about differently
16 Jan 2010 19:48:07 < Hugglesworth> and selbi != verb BTW
16 Jan 2010 19:48:25 < pafcribe> so you really don't want to keep using words like "noun"/"verb" because lojban really doesn't have an equivelent (unless you want to limit the language / completely misunderstand it)
16 Jan 2010 19:50:40 < Sonja> ok what's the next part of speech i can learn?
16 Jan 2010 19:54:19 < pafcribe> well, what have you learned so far?
16 Jan 2010 19:57:05 < Sonja> i've learned that selbris are like verbs
16 Jan 2010 19:57:22 < Sonja> and lojbanists get upset if i use an english word like verb instead of the loanword selbri
16 Jan 2010 19:58:54 < Sonja> should i be doing this in here or in #ckule ?
16 Jan 2010 19:59:02 < Sonja> mi gleki = i'm happy ?
16 Jan 2010 19:59:48 < Hugglesworth> yup
16 Jan 2010 19:59:55 < Sonja> mi klama = i'm coming
16 Jan 2010 20:00:23 < Hugglesworth> "I'm coming/I have come"
16 Jan 2010 20:00:28 < Sonja> what verb tense is that if i don't mark it
16 Jan 2010 20:00:35 < Sonja> could be present or past
16 Jan 2010 20:00:35 < Sonja> but not future ?
16 Jan 2010 20:00:42 < Hugglesworth> the tense is up to context
16 Jan 2010 20:00:56 < Hugglesworth> could be "I will be comming"
16 Jan 2010 20:00:57 < Sonja> could also be "would come" or "will come" etc.?
16 Jan 2010 20:01:11 < Sonja> cool, it's like Toki Pona that way
16 Jan 2010 20:01:28 < Sonja> what's a gimsu?
16 Jan 2010 20:02:14 < Hugglesworth> The official def is "root word" but I got yelled at by kribacr because they're teaching it differently now
16 Jan 2010 20:02:39 < Sonja> how are the root words different from the verbs?
16 Jan 2010 20:02:40 -!- codrus [n=codrus@m720e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16 Jan 2010 20:02:51 < Sonja> they had common english names in Loglan
16 Jan 2010 20:03:39 < Sonja> so "mi gleki". gleki is both a gimsu and a selbri?
16 Jan 2010 20:03:57 < Hugglesworth> because gismu also cover the rolls of nouns and adjictives and adverbs
16 Jan 2010 20:04:11 < Sonja> cool
16 Jan 2010 20:04:18 < Hugglesworth> yes
16 Jan 2010 20:04:25 < Sonja> ok
16 Jan 2010 20:04:32 < Sonja> so let's turn some verbs into nouns then
16 Jan 2010 20:04:40 < Sonja> "one who is happy" ?
16 Jan 2010 20:05:02 < Sonja> kleki-er
16 Jan 2010 20:05:09 < Hugglesworth> "lo gleki"
16 Jan 2010 20:05:19 < Sonja> lo gleki
16 Jan 2010 20:05:28 < Sonja> what part of speech is lo?
16 Jan 2010 20:06:13 < Hugglesworth> you can kind of think of lo as an article, but a bit different
16 Jan 2010 20:06:33 < Sonja> is there a word for medical depression?
16 Jan 2010 20:06:44 < Hugglesworth> you could make one
16 Jan 2010 20:07:00 < Sonja> mi badri
16 Jan 2010 20:07:14 -!- lindar [n=lindarth@rrcs-173-196-20-139.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lojban
16 Jan 2010 20:07:23 < Hugglesworth> no
16 Jan 2010 20:07:29 < Hugglesworth> badri ~= sad
16 Jan 2010 20:07:39 < lindar> Is the troll still in here?
16 Jan 2010 20:07:40 < Sonja> x1 is sad/depressed/dejected/[unhappy/feels sorrow/grief] about
16 Jan 2010 20:07:40 < Sonja>        x2 (abstraction).
16 Jan 2010 20:07:46 < Sonja> it's defined as sad or depressed
16 Jan 2010 20:07:54 < Hugglesworth> he's not a troll, he's just confused
16 Jan 2010 20:08:01 < Hugglesworth> both
16 Jan 2010 20:08:22 < lindar> I'm just not going to say anything. Have fun.
16 Jan 2010 20:08:30 < Sonja> i'm a girl
16 Jan 2010 20:08:34 < Hugglesworth> u'i
16 Jan 2010 20:08:36 < Sonja> and i'm not a troll
16 Jan 2010 20:08:40 < Sonja> i emailed you linda to apologize
16 Jan 2010 20:09:27 < Sonja> is it because you didn't know that meaning of badri that you suggested i should make one?
16 Jan 2010 20:09:44 < pafcribe> what?
16 Jan 2010 20:09:49 < Sonja> i was asking Hugglesworth
16 Jan 2010 20:09:56 < Hugglesworth> lindar: what's the equivelent of "he/him/her/it" it's "k*'*" but I can't remember
16 Jan 2010 20:09:58 < Sonja> he said i should invent a word for depression because it doesn't exist
16 Jan 2010 20:10:05 < Sonja> but then i found badri
16 Jan 2010 20:10:11 < Sonja> one of whose meanings is "depressed"
16 Jan 2010 20:10:27 < lindar> Depression = lo nu badri / lo li'i badri
16 Jan 2010 20:10:29 < Hugglesworth> badri generaly means sad, but could be construed as depression based on context
16 Jan 2010 20:10:41 < Sonja> why is it defined as "depressed"?
16 Jan 2010 20:10:46 < Sonja> did i look up the wrong dictionary?
16 Jan 2010 20:10:54 < Hugglesworth> you asked about medical depression, you'd probably want to make a tanru to get a more clear def
16 Jan 2010 20:11:05 < pafcribe> sonja, before you go and try to figure out what "the word for ____" is it might be a good idea to understand what lojban is all abotu before you start getting into the nitty gritty
16 Jan 2010 20:11:14 < lindar> Referent pro-sumti could be ri/ra/ru or ko'V/fo'V.
16 Jan 2010 20:11:37 < Sonja> what are the other pronouns?
16 Jan 2010 20:11:38 < lindar> Like I said, we have a structured lesson plan. We teach things in a particular order for a reason.
16 Jan 2010 20:11:40 < Sonja> i only know mi
16 Jan 2010 20:11:47 < Hugglesworth> lindar: je'e ki'e
16 Jan 2010 20:11:53 < Sonja> ok then is there a teacher available right now?
16 Jan 2010 20:12:19 < Sonja> i can teach you one of the languages i know in exchange
16 Jan 2010 20:12:19 < pafcribe> yeah sonja, lojban is unlike any other language that you can probably think of, it's not a good idea to come in with english like ideas (e.g. nound/pronoun/verb/adjective/etc... so just stop trying to put it into that framework)
16 Jan 2010 20:12:21 < Hugglesworth> lindar -was- available before you went and piss'd him off
16 Jan 2010 20:12:54 < Sonja> i've studied cantonese, arabic, toki pona, esperanto, american sign language, etc.
16 Jan 2010 20:13:00 < Sonja> all of them have very different grammars from english
16 Jan 2010 20:13:10 < Sonja> but there's still english words to talk about their grammars
16 Jan 2010 20:13:27 < pafcribe> ok then
16 Jan 2010 20:13:31 < Sonja> as a student of lojban, i would like to use english words to describe lojban grammar, even if their english meanings are not exactly the same as their lojban meanings, obviously
16 Jan 2010 20:13:42 < pafcribe> when someone tells you "selbri" use the english word "relationship"
16 Jan 2010 20:13:43 < Hugglesworth> that's 'cause people like getting all malglico when they're talking about languages
16 Jan 2010 20:13:57 < lindar> Yes, and we don't have those parts of speech. We don't have verbs, as I was trying to explain. You would have to use a verb to describe something as blue in English, but in Lojban we have a selbri specifically for that. It is -not- a verb and does not function like one.
16 Jan 2010 20:14:03 < Sonja> Hugglesworth can you say that in english please?
16 Jan 2010 20:14:05 < Sonja> i don't speak lojban
16 Jan 2010 20:14:31 < Sonja> and you don't feel that calling selbris verbs is correct?
16 Jan 2010 20:14:36 < pafcribe> sonja, in lojban there's an idea called "selbri" which means "some stuff relates to some other stuff in a particular way"
16 Jan 2010 20:14:40 < lindar> We avoid using English phrases and English ideas because then you try to write English in Lojban, and then nobody understands you because you're trying to write an English phrase in Lojban instead of just speaking Lojban.
16 Jan 2010 20:15:21 < Sonja> ok then i'll call them relation words if you prefer
16 Jan 2010 20:15:26 < pafcribe> so if you want to use english words to talk about english grammar it would be more appropriate to say "relationship" than it would be to say "verb" when talking about "selbri"
16 Jan 2010 20:15:27 < Hugglesworth> sonja: example, lojbo doesn't have "to be" like most languages
16 Jan 2010 20:15:42 < Sonja> toki pona and american sign lanugage don't have "to be" either
16 Jan 2010 20:16:00 < Sonja> lojban is not doing anything "new" per se. i'm not stuck in english way of thinking. i just like to have english words to describe the various phenomena.
16 Jan 2010 20:16:11 < Hugglesworth> then one would asume you'd already know better
16 Jan 2010 20:16:11 < pafcribe> ok, in that case....
16 Jan 2010 20:16:13 < Sonja> because i don't yet have lobjan words
16 Jan 2010 20:16:32 < lindar> Yes, which is why we teach you what they're called, so you know how to properly refer to them.
16 Jan 2010 20:16:35 < Sonja> when i describe american sign lanugage grammar, i don't spontaneously break out in sign when explaining it to an english-speaker
16 Jan 2010 20:16:42 < Sonja> i use the english term for that linguistic phenomenon
16 Jan 2010 20:17:05 < Sonja> whether it's something like "classifier" that doesn't really exist in english
16 Jan 2010 20:17:19 < Hugglesworth> YAY. Princess Bride, I fucking love this movie
16 Jan 2010 20:17:30 < Sonja> ok so i've got relation words and root words now
16 Jan 2010 20:17:35 < Sonja> what is next on the lesson plan?
16 Jan 2010 20:17:38 < pafcribe> ok
16 Jan 2010 20:17:45 < pafcribe> so the next would be "sumti"
16 Jan 2010 20:17:49 < pafcribe> this means "argument"
16 Jan 2010 20:17:58 < Sonja> ok cool
16 Jan 2010 20:17:59 < pafcribe> so like, when you have a relationship you have things that relate to one another
16 Jan 2010 20:18:07 < Hugglesworth> Sonja: protip for learning: Don't argue
16 Jan 2010 20:18:09 < pafcribe> these things are "arguments" to the "relationship"
16 Jan 2010 20:18:16 < Sonja> yup cool
16 Jan 2010 20:18:23 < Sonja> sorry if it sounded like i was arguing
16 Jan 2010 20:18:53 < Sonja> i'm trying to summarize what i learn using english words
16 Jan 2010 20:19:03 < pafcribe> so if you've just GOT to think of htings in english words, when you hear "selbri" think "relationship", and when you hear "sumti" think "a thing that relates to other things according to the selbri (relationship)"
16 Jan 2010 20:19:05 < Sonja> i don't want to offend you by suggesting it's possible to translate sumti by "argument", etc.
16 Jan 2010 20:19:39 < Hugglesworth> actually, think of selbri as "function"
16 Jan 2010 20:20:15 < Sonja> "verb" and "argument" make sense to me
16 Jan 2010 20:20:32 < Sonja> Hugglesworth or method, if it were Ruby :)
16 Jan 2010 20:20:45 < Hugglesworth> NO!
16 Jan 2010 20:20:49 < pafcribe> oh cool, you know programming, that makes life infinitely easier (approximately)
16 Jan 2010 20:20:51 < Hugglesworth> Ruby can burn in a hole
16 Jan 2010 20:20:57 < pafcribe> lol
16 Jan 2010 20:21:04 < Sonja> ok what are the pronouns?
16 Jan 2010 20:21:16 < Hugglesworth> sonja: complicated
16 Jan 2010 20:21:17 < pafcribe> there are many kinds of pronouns
16 Jan 2010 20:21:26 -!- mefistofeles [n=Tathar@unaffiliated/mefistofeles] has quit ["leaving"]
16 Jan 2010 20:21:29 < pafcribe> mi = speaker
16 Jan 2010 20:21:36 < pafcribe> do = one being spoken to
16 Jan 2010 20:21:39 < Sonja> well what are the most common ones. 80% of the ones i'd read and use.
16 Jan 2010 20:21:48 < pafcribe> <above>
16 Jan 2010 20:21:51 < Sonja> cool
16 Jan 2010 20:21:53 < Sonja> I and you
16 Jan 2010 20:22:03 < pafcribe> basically
16 Jan 2010 20:22:07 < Hugglesworth> you'll want 'ti' aswell
16 Jan 2010 20:22:13 < Sonja> is that he/she/it ?
16 Jan 2010 20:22:16 < Hugglesworth> ti = this thing here
16 Jan 2010 20:22:21 < Sonja> ok cool
16 Jan 2010 20:22:30 < pafcribe> except that "I" and "you" in lojban CAN be multiple people or singular people etc... they only mean "the one speaking" and "the one listening"
16 Jan 2010 20:22:40 < Sonja> cool
16 Jan 2010 20:22:43 < Sonja> same as Toki Pona then
16 Jan 2010 20:22:50 < pafcribe> sure, why not
16 Jan 2010 20:22:51 < Sonja> not marked for number
16 Jan 2010 20:22:54 < Hugglesworth> he/she/it get's a bit weirder
16 Jan 2010 20:22:57 < pafcribe> precicely
16 Jan 2010 20:23:30 < pafcribe> ti/ta/tu are all "I'm pointing at a thing" and they range from near to far.  So it'd be like "this, that, and that yonder"
16 Jan 2010 20:23:42 < Sonja> i like to eat beans. they are fresh.
16 Jan 2010 20:23:42 < Sonja> a way to refer back to beans
16 Jan 2010 20:23:57 < pafcribe> ooo, there's a cool lojban mechanism for dealing with that
16 Jan 2010 20:24:09 < pafcribe> so, you can refer to any thing by the first leter of the word used to talk abou it
16 Jan 2010 20:24:14 < Sonja> ok cool
16 Jan 2010 20:24:49 < Sonja> i like beans. bare fresh.
16 Jan 2010 20:24:53 < Sonja> something like that?
16 Jan 2010 20:25:11 < pafcribe> so if you said {me nelci lo nu citka lo dembi} "I like the event of I eat beans" (dembi = bean) then you could talk about that bean which you like by saying {.dy} which is the letter for "d" (dembi)
16 Jan 2010 20:25:36 < Sonja> is it possible to search for definitions or using regex in http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl?Form=dict.pl2&Database=*&Query=badri ?
16 Jan 2010 20:25:49 -!- mefistofeles [n=Tathar@unaffiliated/mefistofeles] has joined #lojban
16 Jan 2010 20:26:16 < pafcribe> I don't know if you can use regex, but you can search
16 Jan 2010 20:26:29 < lindar> Huh... well, there goes the lesson plan. >_>
16 Jan 2010 20:26:46 -!- klaid_ [n=klaid@ip68-226-71-131.cl.ri.cox.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
16 Jan 2010 20:27:00 < pafcribe> I guess sonja isn't looking for the standard lesson plan
16 Jan 2010 20:27:04 < Hugglesworth> lindar: we all turned out well enough without the lesson plan
16 Jan 2010 20:27:10 < Sonja> well my curiosity is too aggressive
16 Jan 2010 20:27:21 < pafcribe> that's possible
16 Jan 2010 20:27:28 < Sonja> a teacher woh wants to use lesson plan will have to shoot material at me faster :)
16 Jan 2010 20:27:56 < pafcribe> although I am drunker than a ....... really drunk person, I can continue to invent a lesson plan on the fly if you like sonja
16 Jan 2010 20:27:59 < Sonja> so here "they" referring to beans would be "dy" or ".dy" ?
16 Jan 2010 20:28:08 < pafcribe> right
16 Jan 2010 20:28:10 -!- mefistofeles [n=Tathar@unaffiliated/mefistofeles] has quit [Client Quit]
16 Jan 2010 20:28:17 < Sonja> what was the period befoer dy ?
16 Jan 2010 20:28:34 < lindar> >_>
16 Jan 2010 20:28:42 < pafcribe> basically {.dy} is a letter just like "d" and letters by themselves are used as pronouns for words used previously that started with that letter
16 Jan 2010 20:28:49 < lindar> ...and now you're teaching advanced things before simple things, and you're teaching things incorrectly.
16 Jan 2010 20:29:00 < lindar> denpa bu comes -after- the referent.
16 Jan 2010 20:29:01 < pafcribe> I'm teaching incorrectly?
16 Jan 2010 20:29:08 < Sonja> is y a mid-central vowel?
16 Jan 2010 20:29:20 < lindar> ...and the cnino doesn't even know how to pronounce... >_> Hold on.
16 Jan 2010 20:29:49 < pafcribe> ok
16 Jan 2010 20:29:58 -!- GGLucas [n=GGLucas@5357F9E6.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16 Jan 2010 20:30:10 < Hugglesworth> .y'y == "ah" == あ
16 Jan 2010 20:30:13 < Sonja> i'm a "lo cnino" ?
16 Jan 2010 20:30:20 < pafcribe> yeah
16 Jan 2010 20:30:21 < pafcribe> for sure
16 Jan 2010 20:30:24 < Hugglesworth> yup
16 Jan 2010 20:30:26 < lindar> ...oh god huggles, stop.
16 Jan 2010 20:30:28 < pafcribe> you are a "new" something
16 Jan 2010 20:30:29 < lindar> That's so wrong.
16 Jan 2010 20:30:34 < Hugglesworth> no it's not
16 Jan 2010 20:30:39 < lindar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzG9vFOkOGU <---the pronunciation guide
16 Jan 2010 20:30:47 < lindar> Yes, it is.
16 Jan 2010 20:30:57 < pafcribe> yeah, I don't think I would say .y'y = "ah"
16 Jan 2010 20:30:59 < lindar> y - uh - like "shut"
16 Jan 2010 20:31:06 < Sonja> you look like a boy, linda
16 Jan 2010 20:31:11 < lindar> My name isn't Linda.
16 Jan 2010 20:31:19 < lindar> ...and I am a male.
16 Jan 2010 20:31:24 < pafcribe> how the hell can you tell what lindar looks like?
16 Jan 2010 20:31:26 < pafcribe> oh really>
16 Jan 2010 20:31:36  * Hugglesworth 's accent says 'u' in 'shut' as he says 'ah'
16 Jan 2010 20:31:37 < lindar> Again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzG9vFOkOGU <----the pronunciation guide
16 Jan 2010 20:31:40 < pafcribe> yo usaid something about being on the phone with your husband earlier didn't you?
16 Jan 2010 20:31:47 < lindar> Yes.
16 Jan 2010 20:31:51 < lindar> I did.
16 Jan 2010 20:31:51 < Sonja> are there no linguistic definitions of the target vowels?
16 Jan 2010 20:31:55 < Hugglesworth> XD oh god, here we go
16 Jan 2010 20:32:10 < lindar> YES I AM A GAY MALE LOJBANIST AND I HAVE A HUSBAND.
16 Jan 2010 20:32:19 < Sonja> pafcribe you didn't know that men could get married too?
16 Jan 2010 20:32:24 < pafcribe> oh sweet
16 Jan 2010 20:32:24 < lindar> It's not like I'm the first gay Lojbanist.
16 Jan 2010 20:32:27 < pafcribe> god-damnit
16 Jan 2010 20:32:28 < lindar> >_>
16 Jan 2010 20:32:31 < Hugglesworth> y'y == "AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH" from 'home alone'
16 Jan 2010 20:32:37 < Twey> Hugglesworth: … no
16 Jan 2010 20:32:37 < pafcribe> earlier I said "I didn't know lindar was a woman/homosexual"
16 Jan 2010 20:32:50 < lindar> Huggles, you really don't know what you're talking about. Please watch the video.
16 Jan 2010 20:33:00 < pafcribe> of COURSE I wouldn't have used the right words to express that I'm not a homophobic asshole here
16 Jan 2010 20:33:21 < lindar> .y'y = Uh-huh.
16 Jan 2010 20:33:26 < Hugglesworth> yup
16 Jan 2010 20:33:27 < Twey> Sonja: http://dag.github.com/cll/3/2/
16 Jan 2010 20:33:52 < Hugglesworth> welcome to the wonderful word of accents and you having a different one
16 Jan 2010 20:34:21 < lindar> No.
16 Jan 2010 20:34:25 < Twey> Hugglesworth, there is no way that .y'y. sounds like ‘ah’ in any accent in the world ever
16 Jan 2010 20:34:33 < Twey> For a start, it has a consonant in the middle
16 Jan 2010 20:34:40 < Sonja> r is any rhotic sound? there is no one preferred?
16 Jan 2010 20:34:45 < lindar> Regardless of what your accent is, that is not how to pronounce Lojban.
16 Jan 2010 20:34:50 < Twey> Sonja: They're all acceptable.
16 Jan 2010 20:34:51 < Hugglesworth> no, I mean .y'y the letter itself
16 Jan 2010 20:35:01 < Sonja> so i could use a voiced uvular fricative?
16 Jan 2010 20:35:02 < Twey> Hugglesworth: Then there's no vowel on the front :þ
16 Jan 2010 20:35:03 < lindar> R is any rhotic sound, but a uvular or trill is preferred to the standard American R.
16 Jan 2010 20:35:04 < Hugglesworth> 'y'
16 Jan 2010 20:35:07 < pafcribe> yeah but dude, don't use .y'y to talk about the "h" sound,
16 Jan 2010 20:35:13 < Twey> Hugglesworth: That's .y-bu
16 Jan 2010 20:35:15 < Twey> Sonja: Yes
16 Jan 2010 20:35:21 < Hugglesworth> *facepalm*
16 Jan 2010 20:35:21 < lindar> Twey, help. ;-;
16 Jan 2010 20:35:25 < Twey> Several of us like to do this
16 Jan 2010 20:35:34 < pafcribe> like to do what?
16 Jan 2010 20:35:37 < Hugglesworth> s/y'y/.ybu
16 Jan 2010 20:35:53 < Sonja> but voiceless uvular fricative is x
16 Jan 2010 20:36:03 < Twey> Sonja: Velar
16 Jan 2010 20:36:05 < lindar> >____< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzG9vFOkOGU <------pronunciation guide
16 Jan 2010 20:36:19 < lindar> Please watch it. It answers all of your questions without having to use text as a medium.
16 Jan 2010 20:36:39 < Twey> But text is rather easier, especially if one is a trained linguist as Sonja is.
16 Jan 2010 20:36:39 < Sonja> x is velar??
16 Jan 2010 20:36:39 < Sonja> lindar did it uvular in his video
16 Jan 2010 20:36:48 < Twey> … and lindar's not perfect.
16 Jan 2010 20:36:56 < Hugglesworth> .ie
16 Jan 2010 20:37:17 < Sonja> lindar if you teach me lojban, i can teach you to pronounce x
16 Jan 2010 20:37:19 < lindar> Whatever, then use the IPA.
16 Jan 2010 20:37:25 < lindar> ...and I can pronounce X just fine.
16 Jan 2010 20:37:27 < Sonja> i was using phonetic descriptions!
16 Jan 2010 20:37:40 < pafcribe> sonja did you just say "if you teach me lojban, I can teach you to pronounce x"?
16 Jan 2010 20:37:41 < pafcribe> haha
16 Jan 2010 20:37:44 < pafcribe> you are a troll aren't you?
16 Jan 2010 20:37:47 < Sonja> ?
16 Jan 2010 20:37:53 < Sonja> well twey said that lindar is mispronouncing the x
16 Jan 2010 20:37:56 < lindar> jeeeeeeezus
16 Jan 2010 20:37:59 < pafcribe> oh really>
16 Jan 2010 20:38:00 < Twey> … no, pafcribe
16 Jan 2010 20:38:03 < Sonja> i wanted to be helpful
16 Jan 2010 20:38:14 < Sonja> offer something in exchange for what i am receiving
16 Jan 2010 20:38:29 < Twey> It's reasonable.  Don't mind lindar.  :þ
16 Jan 2010 20:38:29 < Sonja> share knowledge
16 Jan 2010 20:38:33 < Sonja> okay
16 Jan 2010 20:38:43 < lindar> I want nothing more than everybody in this room to stop using {cu} unnecessarily and to pronounce Lojban correctly.
16 Jan 2010 20:38:46 < lindar> That's all I really want.
16 Jan 2010 20:38:56 < pafcribe> well, I pronounce it all correctly
16 Jan 2010 20:38:56 < Sonja> is there no authoritative definition of the phonemes?
16 Jan 2010 20:39:07 < pafcribe> yes sonja, all the phones are defined
16 Jan 2010 20:39:17 < Sonja> awesome, is htat available on the web?
16 Jan 2010 20:39:25 < pafcribe> yeah, just a sec
16 Jan 2010 20:39:26 < Twey> Sonja: http://dag.github.com/cll/3/2/
16 Jan 2010 20:39:26 < lindar> >_>
16 Jan 2010 20:39:28 < pafcribe> let me dig up the CLL chapter
16 Jan 2010 20:39:37 < Twey> The one I just linked :þ
16 Jan 2010 20:39:40 < pafcribe> or you could click that handy link that twey put up
16 Jan 2010 20:39:44 < pafcribe> hsaha
16 Jan 2010 20:39:45 < Sonja> thank you
16 Jan 2010 20:39:45 < pafcribe> haha*
16 Jan 2010 20:39:52 < Sonja> that explains it much better than any video can
16 Jan 2010 20:39:56 < lindar> Let me know when we're actually teaching Lojban correctly instead of doing it natlang too-many-chefs style.
16 Jan 2010 20:40:12 < pafcribe> I was actually just about to say that there are too many cooks in the kitchen
16 Jan 2010 20:40:25 < pafcribe> so... given that, this cook is heading out
16 Jan 2010 20:40:27 < pafcribe> later folks
16 Jan 2010 20:40:34 < Hugglesworth> see ya pafcribe
16 Jan 2010 20:40:39 < pafcribe> sonja, I hope that you get a good grip of lojban
16 Jan 2010 20:40:43 < pafcribe> it's a freaking awesome language
16 Jan 2010 20:40:49 < Hugglesworth> I'ma stick around and make stupid mistakes and troll lindar
16 Jan 2010 20:40:49 < pafcribe> and an awful lot of fun
16 Jan 2010 20:40:53 < Sonja> lindar your pronunciation of x is ambiguous
16 Jan 2010 20:41:17 < Sonja> it's uvular like r, but it's voiceless like x
16 Jan 2010 20:41:27 < Sonja> there is no voiceless uvular fricative in lojban according to this doc twey linked to
16 Jan 2010 20:42:01 < pafcribe> really?
16 Jan 2010 20:42:34 < pafcribe> I'm amazed.. the voiceless uvular fricative is such an awesome thing...... (doesn't know anything about pronounciation or what any of those words mean)
16 Jan 2010 20:42:36 < Sonja> is there an epenthic vowel? I heard about a near-close near-front unrounded vowel
16 Jan 2010 20:43:08 < Hugglesworth> does anyone understand what he's talking about? or do we need to poke clsn?
16 Jan 2010 20:43:19 < Sonja> understand what who is talking about?
16 Jan 2010 20:43:27 < Twey> Sonja: {y} could be considered one
16 Jan 2010 20:43:42 < Hugglesworth> you and all your linguist jibber jabber
16 Jan 2010 20:43:55 < Twey> [ɪ] is also
16 Jan 2010 20:44:09 < Sonja> Hugglesworth lojban is a language
16 Jan 2010 20:44:18 < Sonja> there exists words to describe languages
16 Jan 2010 20:44:20 < Sonja> in english! :)
16 Jan 2010 20:44:29 < Sonja> without resorting to inventing new words in lojban and sayign they're untranslatable to english ;)
16 Jan 2010 20:44:35 < Twey> {y} ([ə]) is used in the formation of words that would otherwise contain forbidden consonant clusters
16 Jan 2010 20:44:40 < Hugglesworth> yup, but I've no clue what a epenthic vowel is
16 Jan 2010 20:44:53 < Twey> She meant ‘epenthetic’
16 Jan 2010 20:45:04 < Hugglesworth> that doesn't help much twey
16 Jan 2010 20:45:30 < Sonja> thanks for correcting my mistype, twey
16 Jan 2010 20:45:33 < Sonja> i forgot a syllable there :)
16 Jan 2010 20:45:35 < Twey> [ɪ] is a morphologically ignored vowel that can be used as a ‘buffer’ between consonant clusters that the speaker has difficulty pronouncing
16 Jan 2010 20:45:52 < lindar> If you'd like to get on Mumble, I imagine this would be much easier.
16 Jan 2010 20:46:10 < Sonja> so i should be careful to pronounce /i/ not like that epenthetic vowel!
16 Jan 2010 20:46:10 < Twey> No, I don't think so in this case, lindar
16 Jan 2010 20:46:16 < Twey> Sonja: Right ☺
16 Jan 2010 20:46:40 < Sonja> good to know
16 Jan 2010 20:46:41 < Twey> I seem to remember that there was another such buffer vowel, too
16 Jan 2010 20:46:46 < Twey> Let me have a look…
16 Jan 2010 20:46:49 < pafcribe> omg
16 Jan 2010 20:47:21 < Twey> Ah, yes
16 Jan 2010 20:47:34 < Twey> « As a result, the Lojban design allows the use of a buffer sound between consonant combinations which a speaker finds unpronounceable. This sound may be any non-Lojbanic vowel which is clearly separable by the listener from the Lojban vowels. Some possibilities are IPA [ɪ], [ɨ], [ʊ], or even [ʏ], but there probably is no universally acceptable buffer sound. When using a consonant buffer, the sound should be made as short as possible. »
16 Jan 2010 20:48:16 < pafcribe> "a" says "a" like in "father", "e" says "e" like in "pet", "i" says "ee" like in "peek", "o" says "o" like in "poke", "u" says "u" like in "luke".  (doesn't know IPA etc.. but knows what english words have the sounds that lojban uses)
16 Jan 2010 20:48:32 < Twey> pafcribe: Not ‘poke’
16 Jan 2010 20:48:38 < pafcribe> no?
16 Jan 2010 20:48:40 < lindar> However, most people (aside from djan and Huggles, apparently) don't have problems with Lojban phonemes and pronounce everything without buffer vowels.
16 Jan 2010 20:48:41 < pafcribe> well fuck me
16 Jan 2010 20:48:43 < Sonja> well depends on which accent of english
16 Jan 2010 20:48:51 < Sonja> it's like 'poke' in scottish english
16 Jan 2010 20:48:52 < Twey> Aye
16 Jan 2010 20:48:58 < Sonja> and jamaican english
16 Jan 2010 20:48:59 < Twey> Though generally not long
16 Jan 2010 20:49:03 < pafcribe> ok, "o" like in "soak"?
16 Jan 2010 20:49:09 < Twey> Hehe
16 Jan 2010 20:49:11 < Twey> No
16 Jan 2010 20:49:18 < pafcribe> "o" like in "no"?
16 Jan 2010 20:49:20 < pafcribe> fuck
16 Jan 2010 20:49:22 < pafcribe> seriously>
16 Jan 2010 20:49:24 < Twey> The easiest to explain to English-speakers is ‘aw’ as in ‘law’
16 Jan 2010 20:49:26 < lindar> O like in the name of the fucking letter.
16 Jan 2010 20:49:28 < Hugglesworth> sure, lindar lumps me in because I mixed up .ybu and .y'y
16 Jan 2010 20:49:50 < Sonja> so to nest verbs together....
16 Jan 2010 20:49:56 < Twey> Argh, wait, that's [ɑː] in some American dialects, isn't it?
16 Jan 2010 20:50:01 < lindar> ...yeah, and Lojban Y and Japanese A are not the same. Japanese A and Lojban A are the same.
16 Jan 2010 20:50:20 < Twey> *nod*
16 Jan 2010 20:50:21 < pafcribe> sonja, "nest verbs" is absurdly non-lojbanic
16 Jan 2010 20:50:33 < Sonja> well i saw somebody do it earlier
16 Jan 2010 20:50:35 < Twey> Sonja: Would you elucidate on that a little?
16 Jan 2010 20:50:39 < pafcribe> try to clear your head of existin lingustic concepts
16 Jan 2010 20:50:43 < Sonja> in the sense of i like that i eat beans
16 Jan 2010 20:50:43 < Hugglesworth> who the fuck says "father" like "fあther"?
16 Jan 2010 20:50:46 < Sonja> for i like beans
16 Jan 2010 20:50:58 < lindar> Yeah, I'm leaving this channel and going to ##ckule if you'd like to be taught the formal structured lesson that everybody else gets taught.
16 Jan 2010 20:51:02 -!- lindar [n=lindarth@rrcs-173-196-20-139.west.biz.rr.com] has left #lojban ["Feh."]
16 Jan 2010 20:51:05 < Twey> Hugglesworth: Different renderings of Lojban {a}
16 Jan 2010 20:51:11 < Sonja> in Canadian English we say "fahter" with the back [ɑ]
16 Jan 2010 20:51:19 < Twey> Sonja: Not relevant
16 Jan 2010 20:51:32 < Hugglesworth> Albertan english says "fawther"
16 Jan 2010 20:51:37 < pafcribe> oh
16 Jan 2010 20:51:40 < pafcribe> fascnating
16 Jan 2010 20:51:41 < Twey> The selbri of the embedded relation is entirely independent from the selbri of the outer
16 Jan 2010 20:51:55 < pafcribe> ok, I'm drunk enough to enjoy adult swim at this point, so I'm off
16 Jan 2010 20:51:56 < pafcribe> later folks
16 Jan 2010 20:52:00 < Twey> 'bye
16 Jan 2010 20:52:02 < Hugglesworth> co'o
16 Jan 2010 20:52:11 < pafcribe> sonja, I hope you get a handle on lojban, it's really awesomely sweet
16 Jan 2010 20:52:12 < pafcribe> later
16 Jan 2010 20:52:30 < Sonja> sigja
16 Jan 2010 20:52:36 < Twey> There are various constructs by which selbri can be used to modify one another (another reason that ‘verb’ really isn't an accurate term for them: they often function more like adverbs, too)
16 Jan 2010 20:52:46 < pafcribe> cigar?
16 Jan 2010 20:52:48 < Twey> But that's probably a topic for a later date
16 Jan 2010 20:52:55 < pafcribe> later
16 Jan 2010 20:52:57 < pafcribe> co'o rodo
16 Jan 2010 20:53:25 < pafcribe> mu'o mi'e pafcribe poi xalbebna
16 Jan 2010 20:53:29 < pafcribe> co'o
16 Jan 2010 20:53:49 < Sonja> how can i say that lindar is smoking a cigarette?
16 Jan 2010 20:53:50 < clsn> Sonja: briefly put: you say things "I like the-event (I eat beans)".  Or you could conceivably say "I am a bean-liker"
16 Jan 2010 20:54:07 < Sonja> oh so it's like toki pona
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16 Jan 2010 20:54:15 < Sonja> i like this: i eat beans.
16 Jan 2010 20:54:37 < clsn> Or Klingon: "I eat beans; I like that."
16 Jan 2010 20:55:12 < Twey> Sonja: Probably ‘sigva'u’
16 Jan 2010 20:55:23 < Twey> ‘la .lindar. sigva'u’
16 Jan 2010 20:56:52 < Sonja> lujvo means a compound word?
16 Jan 2010 20:57:14 < Sonja> it looks like you drop random letters from the words that made it up
16 Jan 2010 20:57:22 < Sonja> how can i look up the words that made it up?
16 Jan 2010 20:57:30 < Sonja> or reconstruct them?
16 Jan 2010 20:57:33 < Twey> They're assigned, not random
16 Jan 2010 20:57:43 < Twey> There's a bot for this purpose in #makfa
16 Jan 2010 20:58:14 < clsn> there are special short-forms of the words that you stick together, and ways of picking them apart.
16 Jan 2010 21:20:48 -!- krici [n=hymanato@pool-96-228-80-253.lyncva.east.verizon.net] has joined #lojban
16 Jan 2010 21:21:00 < krici> coi rodo
16 Jan 2010 21:27:32 -!- ivan [n=ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lojban
16 Jan 2010 21:47:15 < krici> Is there a way to just say "No"?
16 Jan 2010 21:47:31 < Hugglesworth> in what context?
16 Jan 2010 21:47:40 < krici> Like "Do this. No, do this!"
16 Jan 2010 21:47:42 < Hugglesworth> could be "na go'i" or "vi'onai"
16 Jan 2010 21:47:51 < Hugglesworth> oh
16 Jan 2010 21:48:11 < Hugglesworth> you'd probably use "sa"
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16 Jan 2010 21:48:42 < krici> No no, not where the command changes
16 Jan 2010 21:48:54 < Hugglesworth> example?
16 Jan 2010 21:48:55 < krici> I mean "Stand. No, stand!"
16 Jan 2010 21:49:04 < krici> It's pretty much Engrish
16 Jan 2010 21:49:15 < Hugglesworth> that's an english thing
16 Jan 2010 21:49:54 < Hugglesworth> maybe just repeat it with added emphasis
16 Jan 2010 21:50:01 < krici> alright
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16 Jan 2010 22:30:26 < Sonja> a problem with .sonias. is that it comes out as so-NEE-ass
16 Jan 2010 22:30:40 < Sonja> overemphasizes the i, where my name has a short i (y)
16 Jan 2010 22:32:38 < bornfor> :D
16 Jan 2010 22:33:26 < Sonja> ili frenezas, tiuj loĵbanistoj
16 Jan 2010 22:33:59 < bornfor> jes ja.  iu de tiu homamaso estas lernanta ech esperanton, kaj diris al mi ke li celas forvelkigi esperantion en lojhistanio. :p
16 Jan 2010 22:34:16 < bornfor> en ~~-ion.
16 Jan 2010 22:34:18 < bornfor> brb
16 Jan 2010 22:37:43 < treed> Sonja: SONias
16 Jan 2010 22:37:49 < treed> or sOnias
16 Jan 2010 22:37:56 < treed> or use an accent
16 Jan 2010 22:38:00 < treed> (whichI can't type in this terminal)
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16 Jan 2010 22:46:55 < Sonja> bornfor is there a lojbanized version of your given name?
16 Jan 2010 22:49:50 < bornfor> Eh
16 Jan 2010 23:00:11 < timonator> soooo
16 Jan 2010 23:00:14 < timonator> that was kind of long
16 Jan 2010 23:00:18 < timonator> like, 12 hours?
16 Jan 2010 23:00:28 < timonator> but 12 hours of the big bang theory
16 Jan 2010 23:00:32 < timonator> 12 hours well wasted
16 Jan 2010 23:00:40 < bornfor> did you learn something?
16 Jan 2010 23:00:47 < timonator> well
16 Jan 2010 23:01:08 < timonator> we did inspect one or two whiteboards and figured out what they meant
16 Jan 2010 23:01:20 < timonator> and we drifted off on tangents here and there
16 Jan 2010 23:01:45 < timonator> many tangents ended somewhere on wikipedia. one ended on a website that sells nanotubes at discount prices
16 Jan 2010 23:01:56 < bornfor> 'we'?
16 Jan 2010 23:01:59  * Hugglesworth thought timonator was talking about the american TV show
16 Jan 2010 23:02:40 < timonator> i did talk about the tv show
16 Jan 2010 23:03:01 < Hugglesworth> hmm?
16 Jan 2010 23:08:26 < timonator> what is there to hm? about?
16 Jan 2010 23:09:25 < timonator> anyway
16 Jan 2010 23:10:02 < timonator> i believe i got up at 9:45 yesterday and it's now 8:10 so i've been up long enough to justify going to bed
16 Jan 2010 23:10:56 < timonator> bornfor: i had three friends come over. and Hugglesworth, we watched the american tv show "the big bang theory"
16 Jan 2010 23:11:10 < Hugglesworth> .ua
16 Jan 2010 23:11:59 < timonator> one of whom was, by the way, a lojbanist and another one was interested in the grammar (but not in the vocabulary)
16 Jan 2010 23:12:25 -!- lazni [n=lazni@118.71.104.47] has joined #lojban
16 Jan 2010 23:14:36 < bornfor> timonator: aha
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16 Jan 2010 23:53:59 < Sonja> .a'enai
16 Jan 2010 23:54:02 < Sonja> bye
16 Jan 2010 23:54:05 < Hugglesworth> co'o
16 Jan 2010 23:54:16 < Hugglesworth> ko cinsne
17 Jan 2010 00:19:34 -!- lindar [n=lindarth@rrcs-173-196-20-139.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lojban
17 Jan 2010 00:19:48 < lindar> >______________________>
17 Jan 2010 00:19:52 < lindar> So, is anybody still up?
17 Jan 2010 00:20:06 < Hugglesworth> go'i
17 Jan 2010 00:20:22 < lindar> Sweet. Do you know how to work Git?
17 Jan 2010 00:20:39 < Hugglesworth> I've used it a bit, ya
17 Jan 2010 00:20:52 < Hugglesworth> what do you need to know?
17 Jan 2010 00:21:14 < lindar> What do I do? I need to get started with the Lojban translation of Gnome. I have Git now, but I don't know how to get everything and how to work it.
17 Jan 2010 00:22:50 < Hugglesworth> 'git clone \url\' <-- replace \url\ with the git url it gives you
17 Jan 2010 00:23:40 < lindar> http://git.gnome.org/browse/ ?
17 Jan 2010 00:23:59 < Hugglesworth> doubt it
17 Jan 2010 00:24:23 < Hugglesworth> it'd be more specific
17 Jan 2010 00:24:48 < lindar> Huh... >_>
17 Jan 2010 00:25:04 < Hugglesworth> plus that's not a repo
17 Jan 2010 00:25:11 < Hugglesworth> that's a web url
17 Jan 2010 00:25:26 < Hugglesworth> it will end with '.git'
17 Jan 2010 00:26:23 < Hugglesworth> 'git clone ssh://MYUSERNAME@git.gnome.org/git/PACKAGENAME
17 Jan 2010 00:26:25 < Hugglesworth> '
17 Jan 2010 00:27:05 < Hugglesworth> I don't have access, so I can't try shit before hand
17 Jan 2010 00:28:16 < lindar> >_> Yeah, but what do I put for PACKAGENAME ?
17 Jan 2010 00:29:48 < Hugglesworth> 4hmm
17 Jan 2010 00:29:54 < Hugglesworth> -4
17 Jan 2010 00:30:06 < lindar> http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/GitHowTo This is the HowTo.
17 Jan 2010 00:31:24 < Hugglesworth> I don't know how the translations work, so I can't really help I guess
17 Jan 2010 00:31:54 < lindar> Is anybody else awake that knows how this works? ;-;
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17 Jan 2010 00:35:11 < Hugglesworth> looks like you have to translate per application
17 Jan 2010 00:35:31 < Hugglesworth> gtk would be the first one to go for, I think that's where it grabs the window text from
17 Jan 2010 00:35:34 < Hugglesworth> http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/LocalisationGuide
17 Jan 2010 00:35:42 < notsarah-> coi, #lojban
17 Jan 2010 00:35:48 < Hugglesworth> mentions packages a ways down
17 Jan 2010 00:35:52 < Hugglesworth> coi notsarah
17 Jan 2010 00:36:15 < notsarah-> I am attempting to learn lojban
17 Jan 2010 00:36:19 < lindar> Hullo there, notsarah.
17 Jan 2010 00:36:23 < lindar> I'd be glad to teach you.
17 Jan 2010 00:36:24 < Hugglesworth> great!
17 Jan 2010 00:36:46 < notsarah-> lindar, anything like that would be awesome
17 Jan 2010 00:36:48 < lindar> Do you have any specific questions about Lojban? Do you already know how to pronounce Lojban letters?
17 Jan 2010 00:36:53 < notsarah-> I'm currently reading lojban for beginners
17 Jan 2010 00:36:58 < notsarah-> yeah, I've looked through the pronunciation
17 Jan 2010 00:37:42 < lindar> Sweet. Head over to ##ckule
17 Jan 2010 00:38:02 < Hugglesworth> dammit lindar, keep getting sidetracked
17 Jan 2010 00:40:55 < rlpowell> lindar: go to lojban.org , and in the upper right pick the Lojban page. I have the site translation stuff working again.
17 Jan 2010 00:41:19 < rlpowell> Which means you can actually see the data in action; there's a ton of it, which I'm assuming you already exported as I instructed?
17 Jan 2010 00:45:46 -!- lazni [n=lazni@118.71.104.47] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17 Jan 2010 00:46:25 < lindar> I've already ripped it to shreds and we've discarded a lot/most of it.
17 Jan 2010 00:47:40 < Hugglesworth> lindar: read through that wiki page, It'll tell you what you need to know about how the translation process takes outside of git, and the other one you linked me should at least get you started with git
17 Jan 2010 00:48:13 < Hugglesworth> http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~blynn/gitmagic/ <-- check this out if you want to know what the fuck's actually happening when you use git
17 Jan 2010 00:49:25 < Hugglesworth> co'o rodo .i mi sipna
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17 Jan 2010 01:03:50 < neptunepink> Do I understand this properly? Masses and sets are like lists. Masses focus on the members of the list, sets focus on the properties of the list.
17 Jan 2010 01:15:22 < treed> more or less, yeah
17 Jan 2010 01:17:35 < neptunepink> Now, watch me forget that.
17 Jan 2010 01:17:37  * neptunepink sipna
17 Jan 2010 01:23:06 -!- bornhappy [n=kmots@ip-213-49-245-184.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #lojban
17 Jan 2010 01:23:47 < lindar> xD
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17 Jan 2010 01:30:45 < lindar> treeeeeeeeeed help me figure out git.
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