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18 Jan 2010 04:25:35 < lindar> Meep.
18 Jan 2010 04:26:04 < cmacis> coi rodo
18 Jan 2010 04:26:41 < rossi> coi rodo
18 Jan 2010 04:28:17 < lindar> -___-
18 Jan 2010 04:28:20 < lindar> I think I'm sick.
18 Jan 2010 04:28:29 < lindar> I can't be sick. >_<
18 Jan 2010 04:29:38 < cmacis> .uu
18 Jan 2010 04:33:27 < lindar> I came home from a four hour heavy metal practice session with my new band and just felt horrible. I crashed at 0030 and woke up at 0330 feeling even worse. I tried to go back to sleep, but I couldn't. My nose is clogged, my body is sore, and I just feel plain ill. ;-;
18 Jan 2010 04:33:57 < lindar> Will you make me some traditional Lojbanistanian chicken soup just like Mama Jbo used to make? ;---; *pathetic*
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18 Jan 2010 04:44:32 < lindar> Blah, I think I just need to eat or something.
18 Jan 2010 04:44:40 < lindar> Quit being boring.
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18 Jan 2010 05:08:04 < lindar> New post on jbofanva.
18 Jan 2010 05:17:39 < mathw> coi lindar
18 Jan 2010 05:18:16 < lindar> Hullo there.
18 Jan 2010 05:20:00 < mathw> So did the heavy metal cause your illness, or was that just a bad coincidence?
18 Jan 2010 05:20:51 < lindar> I couldn't rightly say either way. The music was loud enough to cause physical stress, so it very well may have been so.
18 Jan 2010 05:21:40 < mathw> Or it might have just made it a bit worse
18 Jan 2010 05:21:50 < lindar> Possibly.
18 Jan 2010 05:21:53 < mathw> I think I'll stick with my primarily unamplified music for the time being :)
18 Jan 2010 05:22:24 < lindar> Either way I need this bastard roommate of mine to wake up so I can make food without waking him up. -_-
18 Jan 2010 05:22:35 < lindar> >_< Why did I have to wake up this early?
18 Jan 2010 05:22:53 < mathw> mi pu pensi lo jbofanva
18 Jan 2010 05:23:16 < rossi> then you miss amplifier
18 Jan 2010 05:23:18 < rossi> a nice band
18 Jan 2010 05:23:30 < mathw> :o makfa doesn't return any results on a search for 'kitchen'
18 Jan 2010 05:23:39 < lindar> Huh.
18 Jan 2010 05:23:47 < lindar> Maybe it hasn't gotten enough votes?
18 Jan 2010 05:23:48 < rossi> and you can go loud with unamplified instruments
18 Jan 2010 05:23:52 < mathw> yeah maybe
18 Jan 2010 05:24:04 < mathw> rossi: yes you can, we had a couple of rauschpfifes yesterday
18 Jan 2010 05:24:07 < lindar> rossi: Yeah, try playing an acoustic guitar, unamplified, over a drum kit.
18 Jan 2010 05:24:16 < mathw> and a really big drum
18 Jan 2010 05:27:03 < lindar> I should just go to the doughnut shoppe (shop? my spell check says shoppe is wrong....), but I don't want to go outside because it's cold as fuck and raining.
18 Jan 2010 05:27:49 < mathw> shop is correct
18 Jan 2010 05:27:56 < mathw> shoppe is either archaic or faux-archaic
18 Jan 2010 05:28:01 < mathw> I'm not sure which
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18 Jan 2010 05:29:57 < stupid2> jbovlaste isn't working, lojban for city or capital city? tcadu?
18 Jan 2010 05:30:06 < stupid2> sry,
18 Jan 2010 05:30:08 < stupid2> coi
18 Jan 2010 05:31:54 < lindar> I wouldn't say "capital" city, but a metropolitan area.
18 Jan 2010 05:32:27 < lindar> ralju tcadu is probably "capital city".
18 Jan 2010 05:32:45 < stupid2> thx
18 Jan 2010 05:32:49 < lindar> http://www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/gismu.txt
18 Jan 2010 05:33:01 < lindar> http://www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/cmavo_selmaho_order.txt
18 Jan 2010 05:33:14 < lindar> ^ enjoy
18 Jan 2010 05:33:24 < stupid2> if i have some free time, i make a own web interface for this list....
18 Jan 2010 05:34:06 < stupid2> i already reserved vlacku.net for that
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18 Jan 2010 05:39:43 < lindar> Make a own web interface for what list? >.>
18 Jan 2010 05:48:19 < lindar> wtf?
18 Jan 2010 05:48:35 < lindar> 1. Who are you? I've never seen you before.
18 Jan 2010 05:48:46 < lindar> 2. What's your first language?
18 Jan 2010 05:49:59 < Twey> ‘Shoppe’?  You have some very strange spelling habits, lindar :þ
18 Jan 2010 05:50:27 < mathw> I would assume the gismu and cmavo lists, since those are the lists that were in context
18 Jan 2010 05:50:29 < lindar> -_____- Is that the x00-year-old way to spell things?
18 Jan 2010 05:50:34 < mathw> yes
18 Jan 2010 05:50:37 < mathw> well, possibly
18 Jan 2010 05:50:44 < Twey> I don't think it's even valid there
18 Jan 2010 05:50:54 < mathw> I'm not sure if it's a genuine old spelling or just one that people use for luring in the stupider kind of tourist
18 Jan 2010 05:50:54 < Twey> I can picture Middle English using ‘shope’ or something
18 Jan 2010 05:51:02 < Twey> Well, ‘ſhope’
18 Jan 2010 05:51:13 < lindar> Huh.... *sad*
18 Jan 2010 05:51:39 < Twey> Oh no
18 Jan 2010 05:51:48 < Twey> Chaucer really does have ‘shoppe’
18 Jan 2010 05:52:06 < mathw> ooh so it is genuinely old
18 Jan 2010 05:52:18 < lindar> Oooooh.
18 Jan 2010 05:52:20 < Twey> But yes, it seems it fell out of fashion around 1600
18 Jan 2010 05:52:21 <@Broca> c.1300, perhaps from O.E. scoppa "booth or shed for trade or work" (rare), related to scypen "cowshed," from P.Gmc. *skoppan "small additional structure" (cf. O.H.G. scopf "building without walls, porch," Ger. dial. Scopf "porch, cart-shed, barn," Ger. Schuppen "a shed"), from base *skupp-. But it's likely that the M.E. word was acquired from O.Fr. eschoppe "booth, stall," which is a Gmc. loan-word from the same root.
18 Jan 2010 05:52:27 <@Broca> -- etymonline.com
18 Jan 2010 05:52:39 < Twey> *nod*
18 Jan 2010 05:52:46 < lindar> My spelling is very strange.
18 Jan 2010 05:52:48 < stupid2> lindar: a small webinterface for the gismu&etc lists
18 Jan 2010 05:52:59 < Twey> stupid2: We have jbovlaste already
18 Jan 2010 05:53:08 < lindar> Yeah... and jbovlaste isn't down.
18 Jan 2010 05:53:09 < Twey> Which includes those, amongst other things
18 Jan 2010 05:53:12 < lindar> I just accessed it right now.
18 Jan 2010 05:53:44 < lindar> Also, why is it "amour" but "amorous"?
18 Jan 2010 05:53:44 < mathw> Broca: I must remember that website
18 Jan 2010 05:54:03 < stupid2> lindar: : do u tried to search something? i feeling me lucky if he doesn't sey "database error"
18 Jan 2010 05:54:10 < mathw> because amour is a French loanword, but amorous has been Englishified
18 Jan 2010 05:54:26 < mathw> stupid2: that's what jbovlaste says when it gets no results
18 Jan 2010 05:54:32 < Twey> No
18 Jan 2010 05:54:37 < mathw> it is, in Perl 6 parlance, a less than awesome error message
18 Jan 2010 05:54:47 < lindar> Twey: No?
18 Jan 2010 05:54:51 < Twey> For one thing, ‘amour’ is already fully Anglicised
18 Jan 2010 05:55:06 < lindar> Oh, I thought you were disagreeing with the error thing.
18 Jan 2010 05:55:09 < stupid2> mathw: first search result, second time error with the same word o.0
18 Jan 2010 05:55:24 < Twey> (see ‘acoustic’)
18 Jan 2010 05:55:40 < Twey> Secondly, French too uses ‘amoreux’
18 Jan 2010 05:55:42 < lindar> Yeah, stupid2 if you search for a word and it doesn't come up with a result, it'll give you that error.
18 Jan 2010 05:55:52 < lericson> http://www.retas.de/thomas/computer/programs/useless/misc/pi/index.html <- my favorite Perl script.
18 Jan 2010 05:56:08 < Twey> It seems that ‘amour’ was mutated by French from Latin ‘AMOR*’
18 Jan 2010 05:56:38 < mathw> stupid2: okay that's not good, but it's one reason why it would be nice to have 'not found' as opposed to 'problem looking'
18 Jan 2010 05:58:14 < stupid2> mathw: and it looks like 70's or something like that
18 Jan 2010 05:58:46 < lindar> -__________________________-
18 Jan 2010 05:58:48 < mathw> Unlikely, the web hadn't been invented then.
18 Jan 2010 05:58:55 < Twey> stupid2: Feel free to write a new interface
18 Jan 2010 05:59:11 < lindar> Yes, I'm sure we'd all welcome it.
18 Jan 2010 05:59:11 < Twey> There's actually a dictionary server you can connect to on dict.lojban.org
18 Jan 2010 05:59:34 < Twey> Or you can just use KDict or one of those programs
18 Jan 2010 06:00:10 < stupid2> Twey: i know, i use often the gnome-dictionary interface
18 Jan 2010 06:00:11 < lindar> o_O
18 Jan 2010 06:00:12 < lindar> WTF
18 Jan 2010 06:00:19 < lindar> What the hell is this?
18 Jan 2010 06:00:28 < stupid2> or for the commandline "dict"
18 Jan 2010 06:00:30 < lindar> I put in "dict.lojban.org" and some flash thing came up.
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18 Jan 2010 06:01:26 < mathw> doi lindar. xu do roroi fengu
18 Jan 2010 06:01:31 < Twey> Woah
18 Jan 2010 06:01:38 < Twey> Hahaha, what *is* that
18 Jan 2010 06:01:44 < Twey> stupid2: On the command line, I use telnet
18 Jan 2010 06:02:26 < stupid2> telnet? why?
18 Jan 2010 06:02:40  * lericson types jbo2en <foo> or en2jbo <foo>
18 Jan 2010 06:03:04  * mathw uses the makfa bot
18 Jan 2010 06:03:05 < Twey> stupid2: Why not?  The dict protocol is nice
18 Jan 2010 06:03:06 < lindar> wtf is going on with this xmas party flash.
18 Jan 2010 06:03:08 < lericson> Which starts my awesome Python script which is way over-engineered for its task. So yeah.
18 Jan 2010 06:03:17 < lericson> lindar: Probably misconfigured Web server.
18 Jan 2010 06:03:21 < Twey> lindar: Pretty terrible.
18 Jan 2010 06:03:28 < lindar> Apparently it's only for the barbon insurance group....
18 Jan 2010 06:03:31 < Twey> Oh rlpowell~
18 Jan 2010 06:03:31 < mathw> lericson: yay overengineering
18 Jan 2010 06:03:58 < lericson> http://pb.lericson.se/p/XcnCfg/ \o/
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18 Jan 2010 06:13:27 < lindar> -_____________-
18 Jan 2010 06:13:41 < lindar> I hate xorxes for making a -really- good point agains jvinu.
18 Jan 2010 06:13:57 -!- durka42 [n=Adium@d252.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit ["Leaving."]
18 Jan 2010 06:15:59 < mathw> what's with the -_____________-
18 Jan 2010 06:16:16 < Twey> la .lindar. clani se flira
18 Jan 2010 06:16:21 < lindar> That's the expression on my face right now.
18 Jan 2010 06:17:11 < mathw> Did you get sat on by an elephant?
18 Jan 2010 06:17:18 < Twey> za'a li'a pipybanfi
18 Jan 2010 06:17:27 < lindar> Jif peanutbutter is not nearly salty enough.
18 Jan 2010 06:17:56 < lindar> People are so damn concerned about everything. -__- PEANUT PRODUCTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SALTY
18 Jan 2010 06:19:17 < lindar> "Oh, well, too much sodium is bad for you..." Yeah, then don't eat two MacDo doublecheesburgers and a large order of chips with extra salt and Heintz ketchup. Leave my peanutbutter out of this.
18 Jan 2010 06:19:38 < lindar> Stupid people ruin everything.
18 Jan 2010 06:20:12 < lindar> Pretty soon yo- Oh wait, there already -is- reduced sodium salt. I was thinking about it, and then I realised that somehow there is such a thing.
18 Jan 2010 06:20:28 < mathw> xu do citka lo livga be do
18 Jan 2010 06:20:40 < mathw> yes it's called potassium chloride
18 Jan 2010 06:21:48 < timonator> programming lecture is so slow and boring toda
18 Jan 2010 06:22:02 < timonator> i should have staid at home until the next thing
18 Jan 2010 06:22:49 < mathw> sampla bau ma
18 Jan 2010 06:22:52 < timonator> la djavar
18 Jan 2010 06:23:09 < lindar> >_>
18 Jan 2010 06:23:15 < lindar> I hate white people.
18 Jan 2010 06:23:40 < mathw> mi na nelci la javar
18 Jan 2010 06:23:45 < stupid2> lindar: "Stupid people ruin everything." I was born to. :P
18 Jan 2010 06:24:47 <@Broca> The English words for the alkali metals are so queer.
18 Jan 2010 06:25:08 < lindar> >_> You know, it would make more sense to call something like that by its Lojban equivalent.
18 Jan 2010 06:25:10 <@Broca> K as in kalium, Na is in natrium, ffs.
18 Jan 2010 06:25:18 < lindar> "djavar...djavar... wtf?"
18 Jan 2010 06:25:32 < lindar> OOOOOOOH! la ckafi
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18 Jan 2010 06:27:46 < mathw> coi kribacr
18 Jan 2010 06:27:46 < lindar> http://www.weather.com/weather/today/Los+Angeles+CA+90038?lswe=90038&from=searchbox_localwx WTFCALIFORNIA
18 Jan 2010 06:27:58 < kribacr> coi la'oi mathw
18 Jan 2010 06:28:04 < lindar> The hottest it's going to be IN THE DESERT today is 66F.
18 Jan 2010 06:28:28 < kribacr> Cry some more.
18 Jan 2010 06:28:29 < lindar> Somehow it's 0630 and it's still dark out.
18 Jan 2010 06:28:42 < lindar> Then when it heats up I'll bitch about that, too.
18 Jan 2010 06:28:45 < lindar> Hi kri. <3
18 Jan 2010 06:29:05 < mathw> ko jelca lo laktergu'i
18 Jan 2010 06:29:50 < lericson> Fucken Fahrenheit.
18 Jan 2010 06:30:07 < mathw> terribly backwards, using degrees Farenheit
18 Jan 2010 06:30:22 < lericson> 12 deg Celcius isn't that bad.
18 Jan 2010 06:30:35 < lindar> I know, but it gives me that by default because I'm putting in a US postal code.
18 Jan 2010 06:30:43 < mathw> rather pleasant temperature, really
18 Jan 2010 06:31:04 < lericson> It's been snowing all day here.
18 Jan 2010 06:31:33 < lindar> Americans are stupid and resistant to change, but they're more so lazy than resistant to change unless it AFFECTS THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE(tm).
18 Jan 2010 06:32:21 < lindar> If we swept through the entire country and replaced everything with metrics, and then provided no other options, Americans would get it after about a year.
18 Jan 2010 06:32:29 < kribacr> They're taking away our crappy measurement system! Communists!!1
18 Jan 2010 06:32:39 < lericson> And in the meantime you wouldn't be able to compare any metrics at all.
18 Jan 2010 06:33:31 < lindar> Pffftt... The second somebody starts bitching about metrics you just have to say, "WOAH LOOK! I THINK SOME QUEERS ARE GETTING MARRIED OVER THERE! GO STOP 'EM!!" and conversation over.
18 Jan 2010 06:34:20 < lindar> Cos Americans care more about stopping queers from marrying than raising the employment rate, reducing the deficit, or bringing the country up to par with the rest of the world.
18 Jan 2010 06:34:21 < lericson> Oh god that debate, and the abortion debate, and the creationism detabe. They make America look so left-behind it's incredible.
18 Jan 2010 06:34:41 < lindar> America -is- so left-behind that it's incredible.
18 Jan 2010 06:35:48 < lindar> Buncha dick-chopping zealot lunatic gay-hating back-woods redneck fucking lunatics. I seriously hate this country more than words could say.
18 Jan 2010 06:36:03 < kribacr> You and me both, sister.
18 Jan 2010 06:36:43 < lericson> BUT, your tax system isn't retarded.
18 Jan 2010 06:36:46 < lindar> The whole country would rather be up in somebody else's business than solve their own problems. -______-
18 Jan 2010 06:36:55 < lindar> My?
18 Jan 2010 06:36:59 < lindar> Pffft.
18 Jan 2010 06:37:11 < lericson> 50% of my company's incomes go away to taxes. This is a common estimate percentage.
18 Jan 2010 06:37:36 < lindar> Yeah, and when you need to go to hospital you have the ability to do so.
18 Jan 2010 06:37:49 < lericson> Oh yeah that part is also funny about the US
18 Jan 2010 06:38:35 < lindar> Yeah, and just when we're about to get a public health option, people freak out and actually VOTE AGAINST IT?
18 Jan 2010 06:38:37 < lindar> What the fuck?
18 Jan 2010 06:38:47 < lericson> SOCIALIST FUCKERSSSSSSSSSS
18 Jan 2010 06:39:06 < mathw> healthcare is for communists
18 Jan 2010 06:39:10 < mathw> and the rich
18 Jan 2010 06:39:16 < mathw> apparently
18 Jan 2010 06:39:18 < lindar> I mean... wow... how do you not get it? People were freaking out like "THEY'RE TAKING AWAY OUR PRIVATE HEALTHCARE OPTIONS!!". Uhhh, no, they're -adding- a public option.
18 Jan 2010 06:39:25 < mathw> I grew up with the National Health Service
18 Jan 2010 06:39:32 < mathw> Quite healthy, thank you.
18 Jan 2010 06:40:12 < lericson> lindar: The question is though, how doable is public health service in a large nation?
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18 Jan 2010 06:41:03 < lindar> About as doable as using an electoral college system to vote for a supreme executive officer in a country where 75% of the population lives in three of the fifty states.
18 Jan 2010 06:41:26 < lericson> =D
18 Jan 2010 06:41:31 < lericson> It's all PR anyway.
18 Jan 2010 06:41:41 < lericson> Doesn't matter how the election is done.
18 Jan 2010 06:42:16 < lindar> Yeah, the president is picked regardless of how the election goes, and it's not like the president actually does anything. I imagine that the president is just a pretty face for the cameras.
18 Jan 2010 06:42:31 < lericson> Sweden's a lot more about "DEY TUCK 'ER JEERBSS"
18 Jan 2010 06:42:44 < lindar> DURKADURR!!!
18 Jan 2010 06:42:45 < mathw> We've got a general election this year
18 Jan 2010 06:42:52 < mathw> Which should be fun
18 Jan 2010 06:43:01 < lindar> Well, yeah, socialist country, jobs are important.
18 Jan 2010 06:43:02 < mathw> the major political parties are already saddling up their crazy campaign promises
18 Jan 2010 06:43:09 < lericson> 7wii mathw
18 Jan 2010 06:43:09 < lericson> wop
18 Jan 2010 06:43:11 < mathw> And the fringe ones too
18 Jan 2010 06:43:30 < lericson> UK?
18 Jan 2010 06:43:52 < lericson> Wonky Consortium :D
18 Jan 2010 06:44:16 < lindar> I hear these stories about 50% taxes, nobody makes any money in Sweden, blah blah blah... How many homeless people do you have in any given city? How many people are below the poverty line? How much does food cost?
18 Jan 2010 06:44:28 < mathw> yeah UK
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18 Jan 2010 06:45:29 < lindar> I imagine Sweden looks fucking GOLDEN all the time with that tax money. A street gets damaged, BAM, fixed. Somebody loses their job, BAM, temporary income and job placement programme. How is it NOT awesome to live in socialist paradise?
18 Jan 2010 06:45:57 < mathw> Sweden seemed nice
18 Jan 2010 06:46:01 < mathw> Quite clean
18 Jan 2010 06:46:05 < mathw> Nice cider
18 Jan 2010 06:46:14 < lericson> lindar: Not as gloden as you'd think it would be, socalism involves _A LOT_ of bureaucracy
18 Jan 2010 06:46:27 < donri> lindar, because you do not live here so you only here the propaganda
18 Jan 2010 06:46:42 < lindar> I don't hear any propaganda.
18 Jan 2010 06:46:49 < donri> dad has been struggling for months to get temporary income
18 Jan 2010 06:46:52 < lericson> Also I wouldn't define us as socialist either, so yeah.
18 Jan 2010 06:47:33 < donri> no system is perfect, sweden has its benefits but it's not paradise either
18 Jan 2010 06:47:39 < lindar> Wow, capitalist America does social welfare better than Sweden?
18 Jan 2010 06:47:56 < lericson> lindar: Hard to measure really
18 Jan 2010 06:48:08 < lericson> I'll tell you when I move to the US.
18 Jan 2010 06:48:37 < donri> and what benefits sweden provides the system makes up for with restricted freedom
18 Jan 2010 06:49:15 < donri> it's beneficial when you fit the collectivist model, impossible when you do not
18 Jan 2010 06:50:41 < donri> if they don't like you, there are rarely any options and alternatives. you have to surrender, or trick them.
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18 Jan 2010 06:52:02 < donri> example: i probably have adhd, but you don't get any meds without a diagnosis. and there's a six year queue to get a diagnosis. in the mean time, it's very difficult for me to study or do any work.
18 Jan 2010 06:52:46 < donri> and you don't get any monetary benefits without the diagnosis either.
18 Jan 2010 06:53:28 < lindar> Nice. I find it hilarious that we have MediCare (low-cost health insurance option for the economically unfortunate), Social Security, social welfare programmes, but no official public health option. I'm going to drive in my government-approved-and-regulated motor vehicle on government-controlled roads using publicly controlled traffic monitoring systems, buy petrol at a price set by the government instead of private vendors, pay my
18 Jan 2010 06:53:29 < lindar> sales tax, go to MacDonalds and eat a cheeseburger that has been passed as safe for consumption by the Food and Drug Administration, listen to music that has been designed in a standard format by the SMPTE and plays beautifully, not have to worry about retirement or unemployment due to the social security and welfare programmes provided to me as regulated by the United States Government, and then drive my overweight arse to an anti-
18 Jan 2010 06:53:29 < lindar> socialist rally. Fuck yeah America.
18 Jan 2010 06:54:16 < lindar> Luckily I am not any of those nor do I do any of those things.
18 Jan 2010 06:55:24 < lindar> Huh.... well, while you have a six-year-wait, my husband can't actually go to the doctor at all because we don't have any money, so he's gone undiagnosed 22 years. =D
18 Jan 2010 06:55:58 < lindar> So until we have money, no doctor. Then we have to bounce around from psychologist to psychologist because the quality of medical practitioners in the United States is deplorable.
18 Jan 2010 06:55:59 < mathw> The time it takes to get stuff done is the major reason why private health insurance is such an appreciated employment perk here
18 Jan 2010 06:56:18 < mathw> Generally if you can get something covered by your insurance it'll happen quicker
18 Jan 2010 06:56:25 < donri> lindar, yea, i'm not suggesting our system is worse, merely that it isn't perfect either.
18 Jan 2010 06:56:44 < mathw> And probably in a private room with half-decent food
18 Jan 2010 06:56:50 < lindar> donri: Why do you have to wait six years to get a diagnosis? That sounds like a load of bullshit. If it's a serious medical issue, why can't you be treated right away?
18 Jan 2010 06:57:13 < donri> lindar, too few doctors, too many needing to be diagnosed.
18 Jan 2010 06:57:24 < lindar> You don't have private health options in Sweden?
18 Jan 2010 06:57:29 < donri> illegal.
18 Jan 2010 06:57:39 < lindar> Ahhh, there's the problem.
18 Jan 2010 06:57:45 < donri> that's what i'm saying.
18 Jan 2010 06:57:51 < lindar> Move to Canada.
18 Jan 2010 06:57:53 < donri> :)
18 Jan 2010 07:00:30 < donri> -> #jbopre
18 Jan 2010 07:01:21 < lindar> bah
18 Jan 2010 07:01:23 < lindar> I'm done.
18 Jan 2010 07:01:30 < lindar> I don't like jbopre. I always get annoyed in there.
18 Jan 2010 07:01:38 < lindar> I'm too ill to be annoyed.
18 Jan 2010 07:02:04 < donri> but this is the wrong channel to discuss something unrelated to lojban, not in lojban
18 Jan 2010 07:03:35 < lindar> Yep, and that's where I depart the conversation. I'm not going in jbopre, because something always magically irritates me as soon as I start talking in there.
18 Jan 2010 07:04:17 < lindar> Somebody says something ignorant, everybody starts talking about programming, somebody blabs about a topic I hate discussing.
18 Jan 2010 07:04:20 < donri> :)
18 Jan 2010 07:04:35 < lindar> Something always happens that gets me really pissed off. So, no thank you. <3
18 Jan 2010 07:04:42 < donri> too bad, i wanted to ask something, but then i realised where we're talking
18 Jan 2010 07:05:02 < lindar> Then ask me here and forgo the rules, or ask me in PM. =D
18 Jan 2010 07:05:15 < donri> i hate pm. :D
18 Jan 2010 07:05:27 < lindar> Too bad, then!
18 Jan 2010 07:05:29 < donri> yep.
18 Jan 2010 07:05:32 < kribacr> Make lindar jbo, fo'e could use the practice.
18 Jan 2010 07:05:34 < donri> we're incompatible, need meds.
18 Jan 2010 07:05:59 < lindar> I could use the sleep.
18 Jan 2010 07:06:15 < lindar> I need to go back to sleep, but I know I'll just lie there awake the whole time.
18 Jan 2010 07:06:36 < donri> kribacr, sadly, i suck at lojban.
18 Jan 2010 07:07:20 < donri> ia doi lindar la obaman cikre pe'a le y kanro ciste xu
18 Jan 2010 07:07:29 < donri> (see.)
18 Jan 2010 07:07:35 < donri> (worst lojbo evar.)
18 Jan 2010 07:07:44 < lindar> It's because you're gay.
18 Jan 2010 07:08:05 < donri> you must suck yourself, as everything bad is due to gayness du'o do.
18 Jan 2010 07:08:31 < lindar> >_>
18 Jan 2010 07:08:34 < donri> personally, i suck only kawk.
18 Jan 2010 07:08:34 < lindar> Your face.
18 Jan 2010 07:08:36 < donri> <3
18 Jan 2010 07:08:58 < donri> boikawk 'cuz ima chicken hawk
18 Jan 2010 07:09:02 < lindar> My roommate is kinda creepy.
18 Jan 2010 07:09:54 < lindar> He'll partially wake up to turn over or readjust himself as most people do when sleeping, but he always has some strange interjection upon partially waking.
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18 Jan 2010 07:11:42 < donri> zo uuf xu
18 Jan 2010 07:11:42 < lindar> The last three times were particularly strange. The first one he snorted very loudly and then mumbled something about tennis. The second time he started laughing (*rustle rustle shiiiiiiiift* HAHAHAHA...... *settle*). Third time he groaned very loudly and told me he didn't want to.
18 Jan 2010 07:12:27 < lindar> Rather, he told me he didn't want to *indecipherable*.
18 Jan 2010 07:13:11 < Melvar> coi .i tavla fi ma
18 Jan 2010 07:13:27 < lindar> lo mamta be do
18 Jan 2010 07:13:39 < lindar> gi'e me gletu ri
18 Jan 2010 07:13:47 < lindar> vau .uiro'u
18 Jan 2010 07:14:19 < lindar> lo'ai me sa'ai mi le'ai
18 Jan 2010 07:14:27 < lindar> >_>
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18 Jan 2010 07:15:19 < lindar> attempting sleep again
18 Jan 2010 07:17:58 < kribacr> coi la'oi Melvar
18 Jan 2010 07:18:30 < kribacr> Melvar: Hey, sorry about last week, when we were having a conversation and I disappeared. freenode web chat barfed on me and I couldn't get it back online before I had to leave work.
18 Jan 2010 07:19:45 < Melvar> That’s alright.
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18 Jan 2010 07:27:31 < Melvar> I haven’t yet encountered the words “la'oi”, “lo'ai”, “sa'ai” or “le'ai” yet outside of here, and they don’t seem to be in the list. What are they?
18 Jan 2010 07:28:02 < kribacr> la'oi is a one word that quotes the next non-lojbanic word
18 Jan 2010 07:28:11 < kribacr> Very handy for addressing people with non-lojbanic names. :)
18 Jan 2010 07:28:26 < kribacr> The other 3 are a way of doing a swap of words if you make a mistake.
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18 Jan 2010 07:29:07 < kribacr> .i mi citka lo nanba lo'ai nanba sa'ai cirla le'ai
18 Jan 2010 07:31:22 < Melvar> How is it decided where the non-lojban word ends?
18 Jan 2010 07:32:19 < kribacr> It's space / pause delimited.
18 Jan 2010 07:32:44 < kribacr> experimental cmavo {la'oi} glossing to "1-word non-Lojban name" of selma'o ZOhOI   single-word non-Lojban name; quotes a single non-Lojban word delimited by pauses (in speech) or whitespace (in writing) and treats it as a name   Notes: See also {la'o}, {zo'oi}.
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18 Jan 2010 07:35:07 < mathw> .ausai mi klama lo mi zdani
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18 Jan 2010 07:59:14 < vesna> coi prenu
18 Jan 2010 08:01:06 < donri> coi se cmene be lo nu'o gismu
18 Jan 2010 08:02:19 < vesna> coi la donri
18 Jan 2010 08:04:33 < vesna> xu tu'a do se smuni ledu'u le valsi poi zo vesna cu rirci
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18 Jan 2010 08:09:16  * Melvar has yet another question about phonology.
18 Jan 2010 08:10:16 < Melvar> Are palatals acceptable variants of velars?
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18 Jan 2010 08:14:50 < vesna> uanai mi na djuno le selsmu be zo'oi palatals .e zo'oi velars
18 Jan 2010 08:15:18 < vesna> (wondering if the .e joins the two quotes still inside the "be" clause)
18 Jan 2010 08:16:58 < vesna> lo'ai selsmu sa'ai smuni le'ai
18 Jan 2010 08:17:07 < vesna> .u'u
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18 Jan 2010 08:21:18 < Melvar> The velars I mean are the phonemes /k/, /ɡ/, and /x/, written <k>, <g>, and <x> in Lojban. The question was whether the palatal phones [c], [ɟ], and [ç] are acceptable realizations of these.
18 Jan 2010 08:23:33 < clsn> I wonder if they're considered confusable with the alveolars.  Probably not.  Surely CLL says something.
18 Jan 2010 08:24:59 < vesna> .oise'i mi na banskepre
18 Jan 2010 08:25:42 -!- datka [n=duck@24.33.242.63] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18 Jan 2010 08:26:41 < Melvar> The hrefgram doesn’t appear to mention them either way.
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18 Jan 2010 08:28:40 < Melvar> But that chapter is rather difficult to read there, as the proper symbols weren’t yet put in at that stage.
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18 Jan 2010 08:30:41 < vesna> la vesna pacna lenu su'odo ba te preti fo ra bau la lojban
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18 Jan 2010 08:43:30 < vesna> la mak dan te cange pu .i a'i dai io
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18 Jan 2010 09:05:21 < datka> In Lojban for Beginners, chapter 13, it says the modifiers form a 7-part scale, but I count 9. Is there something I'm missing here? http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less13.html
18 Jan 2010 09:08:58 < vesna> datka, I was once wondering the same thing. I just never got around to verifying my counting skills
18 Jan 2010 09:10:15 < vesna> I'm willing to bet something along the lines that "cai" is a recent addition, and the text has only been partially updated (without cai, there are seven)
18 Jan 2010 09:10:35 < kribacr> All of the words were finalized at the same time AFAIK, that's probably just a clerical error.
18 Jan 2010 09:10:56 < kribacr> If I remember right, there's an experimental cmavo meaning "affirm emotion" which would fill in the "(nothing)" on that scale.
18 Jan 2010 09:10:59 < kribacr> {ja'ai} maybe.
18 Jan 2010 09:11:11 < vesna> so why 7?
18 Jan 2010 09:11:23 < kribacr> Someone miscounted? That's my guess.
18 Jan 2010 09:11:57 < vesna> how can a logicianqmathametician be so careless with numbers
18 Jan 2010 09:12:00 < kribacr> Yeah, it's {ja'ai}.
18 Jan 2010 09:12:08 < kribacr> Human.
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18 Jan 2010 09:14:28 < vesna> check out: http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter13.html
18 Jan 2010 09:14:32 < vesna> section 4
18 Jan 2010 09:15:08 < vesna> apprently the seven parts are considered to be: cu'i, ru'e, sai, cai, naru'e, nasai, nacai
18 Jan 2010 09:15:19 < kribacr> That scale leaves out vanilla {nai} and {ja'ai}.
18 Jan 2010 09:15:28 < vesna> exactly
18 Jan 2010 09:15:40 < vesna> becausde those are not specific intensities
18 Jan 2010 09:15:52 < kribacr> Indeed.
18 Jan 2010 09:16:02 < vesna> uinai could very well mean uinaisai
18 Jan 2010 09:16:08 < vesna> or uinairu'e
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18 Jan 2010 09:19:24 < vesna> doi datka ma se cnimo le fe'idatka
18 Jan 2010 09:19:37 < vesna> {cinmo}
18 Jan 2010 09:21:58 < datka> vesna: I'm not sure I follow that last line. jbofi'e isn't translating that for me
18 Jan 2010 09:22:49 < vesna> I asked: what is-being-felt-by the female-duck
18 Jan 2010 09:23:09 < vesna> i.e. how's your wife?
18 Jan 2010 09:23:19 < datka> sipna
18 Jan 2010 09:23:26 < vesna> je'e
18 Jan 2010 09:23:31 < rlpowell> < Twey> Oh rlpowell~ -- yes?
18 Jan 2010 09:25:12 < vesna> xu tu'a le pazdatka pu se tatpi ra
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18 Jan 2010 09:29:35 < datka> They are very tiring, but more for me, I think
18 Jan 2010 09:30:04 < vesna> uinairu'edai
18 Jan 2010 09:30:28 < kribacr> It didn't parse because of *{fe'idatka}
18 Jan 2010 09:30:46 < vesna> right... my bad
18 Jan 2010 09:30:46 < kribacr> You'll need {fe'irdakta}
18 Jan 2010 09:30:58 < vesna> it's nor a lujvo because it's missing a consonant clust
18 Jan 2010 09:31:09 < kribacr> Yep. :) Good catch.
18 Jan 2010 09:31:13 < vesna> :)
18 Jan 2010 09:31:23 < kribacr> datka* sorry, typo on my correction
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18 Jan 2010 09:32:29 < datka> slowly, the number of things I can read without resorting to jbofi'e is increasing, but I'm not all the way there yet
18 Jan 2010 09:33:00 < datka> I wrote a fn for emacs so I can just highlight a line and have it pop up the translation
18 Jan 2010 09:35:58 < vesna> ma se nanca tu'a le do nixli gi'e go'i tu'a le do nanla
18 Jan 2010 09:36:06 < vesna> (can I use go'i like that kribacr?)
18 Jan 2010 09:37:03 < datka> Random will be 3 at the end of Feb. and Toby is 4 1/2
18 Jan 2010 09:37:14 < vesna> :)
18 Jan 2010 09:37:20 < vesna> young  little ducklings
18 Jan 2010 09:38:09 < Melvar> Hm, so people can be said to have a duration?
18 Jan 2010 09:38:30 < vesna> tu'a
18 Jan 2010 09:38:43 < vesna> it means: the bridi implied by
18 Jan 2010 09:38:52 < Melvar> Which tells me nothing.
18 Jan 2010 09:39:22 < vesna> so, thanks to context it's instead of saying "the duration of "the event that your children have been alive""
18 Jan 2010 09:39:34 < vesna> or something like that
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18 Jan 2010 09:40:27 < vesna> you'll get to it in the last lesson :)
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18 Jan 2010 09:42:03 < Melvar> I think I have it now.
18 Jan 2010 09:42:23 < vesna> all the better :)
18 Jan 2010 09:44:02 < vesna> xu lei do panzi cu mapti vo'a
18 Jan 2010 09:45:39 < datka> They usually get along. Right now they're sitting on the couch watching Care Bears
18 Jan 2010 09:46:14 < vesna> wow... I'm so proud that my message came through in that sentence (because there was definitely something wrong with it :))
18 Jan 2010 09:47:07 < datka> I wasn't quite sure of the vo'a part, but I got the idea
18 Jan 2010 09:47:51 < vesna> ckire la cevni le ve tevni
18 Jan 2010 09:48:34 < kribacr> I don't know if {go'i} can backcount to the previous bridi in a {gi'e} connective.
18 Jan 2010 09:49:01 < kribacr> I'm honestly not sure about that.
18 Jan 2010 09:49:02 < vesna> vo'a is basically a repetition of the first sumti of the bridi. it's particularly useful for "tenses" like himself, myself, e.g.: mi batci vo'a = I bite myself
18 Jan 2010 09:49:34 < vesna> kribacr, let me know when&if you become sure about one truth or the other
18 Jan 2010 09:50:17 < kribacr> You could always just { .i je go'i} in a case like that.
18 Jan 2010 09:50:22 < kribacr> It'll mean pretty much the same thing.
18 Jan 2010 09:50:45 < vesna> right... that still saves me from repeating se nanca.. so that'll do. thanks
18 Jan 2010 09:50:47 < kribacr> And actually... even if it does work it'll parse incorrectly.
18 Jan 2010 09:51:02 < kribacr> Actually, no, it will. I misread it.
18 Jan 2010 09:51:33  * Melvar has a question not about phonology this time.
18 Jan 2010 09:51:48 < vesna> ko te preti
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18 Jan 2010 09:53:11 < kribacr> vensa: You have to be careful about what sumti you put around {gi'e} connectives because of how they are added to each bridi. Are you familiar with how it works?
18 Jan 2010 09:54:00 < Melvar> I think I’ve read somewhere that native speakers of English find production of single-word composita (like lujvo) difficult because it is not possible in English itself. How true is this?
18 Jan 2010 09:54:26 < kribacr> Depends on the word.
18 Jan 2010 09:54:35 < kribacr> I mean some can become real tongue twisters real fast. Others are quite fluid.
18 Jan 2010 09:54:52 < kribacr> I think any given language will have difficulties with any given word based on the differences between it and words and their language.
18 Jan 2010 09:55:02 < Melvar> I don’t mean saying them, but producing them. Inventing them.
18 Jan 2010 09:55:13 < kribacr> Oh, sorry, I read "producing" as "pronouncing"
18 Jan 2010 09:55:17 < vesna> I thought it WAS possible in english with certain prefixes\suffixes, e.g. UNinteresting, and with hyphens e.g. book-worm
18 Jan 2010 09:55:28 < kribacr> I make up words in such a fashion all the time.
18 Jan 2010 09:55:39 < kribacr> The thing about lujvo is that they're generally not supposed to be made up on the spot.
18 Jan 2010 09:55:50 < clsn> English doesn't compound nearly as productively as, say, German.
18 Jan 2010 09:56:01 < vesna> yeah.. my bad for giving you the wrong impression Melvar
18 Jan 2010 09:56:17 < vesna> I was just playing around with the duck lujvo. I shouldn't really have used them
18 Jan 2010 09:56:24 < Melvar> See, clsn, that’s what I was talking about.
18 Jan 2010 09:57:40 < vesna> kribacr, I think I know how sentence connectives work: they copy the sumti before the bridi.... on second thought do they copy only the first or any sumti b4 it... hmmm....
18 Jan 2010 09:57:55 < vesna> doi datka xu do na xanka lenu le do nanla ca'o zgana la'e zoi gy Care Bears gy
18 Jan 2010 09:58:43 < clsn> most of our compounds are already words in their own right anyway by now.  Nonce-compounds are pretty marked speech in English I would think.
18 Jan 2010 09:59:14 < kribacr> clsn: If anything, I add "-ness"-like suffixes to words the most.
18 Jan 2010 09:59:26 < vesna> or "ism" :)
18 Jan 2010 09:59:42 < datka> If I were to say go'i to that, would that mean I am or am not anxious?
18 Jan 2010 09:59:54 < kribacr> It would mean you are not.
18 Jan 2010 09:59:56 < vesna> good question.. I covered that once
18 Jan 2010 10:00:12 < kribacr> If you said {na go'i} it would -still- mean you are not.
18 Jan 2010 10:00:16 < vesna> If you want to say you are you should use ja'a
18 Jan 2010 10:00:18 < kribacr> You would have to use {ja'a go'i} to say that you are.
18 Jan 2010 10:00:26 < clsn> yeah.  And I've seen nonce-compounds with -ism and -ness around (they're still marked and informal).  notably those are bound suffixes, so compounding with them is different (and probably more interesting) than compounding with content words.
18 Jan 2010 10:00:41 < Melvar> Yes. Now my question was whether this makes it difficult for native speakers of English to produce compounds as in Lojban or German.
18 Jan 2010 10:01:05 < clsn> I've been seeing ads all over the place lately exhorting us to "rewardify" ourselves or something.  Jeeg only knows why.
18 Jan 2010 10:01:18 < kribacr> Less intuitive since it's not part of our natlang - but I don't think it's inherently more difficult.
18 Jan 2010 10:01:30 < vesna> Melvar.., if it helps your survey: I'm not a German speaker and I don't find the concept problematic
18 Jan 2010 10:01:34 < kribacr> clsn: Someone let Bush off of his ranch?
18 Jan 2010 10:01:53 < clsn> kribacr: to go into advertising?  I guess he did manage to sell a war...
18 Jan 2010 10:02:11 < vesna> datka, what's you're final answer? :)
18 Jan 2010 10:02:12 < Twey> rlpowell: http://dict.lojban.org/ — what's this?
18 Jan 2010 10:02:17 < kribacr> lujvo creating is a slightly different topic I think, because the meaning isn't always going to be automatic.
18 Jan 2010 10:02:38 < kribacr> For example, you can omit parts of a lujvo that would otherwise have to be in there in a tanru made of the same components.
18 Jan 2010 10:02:57 < clsn> lujvo aren't supposed to be nonce.  But I have a feeling that at least in informal speech, there'll always be nonce ones.
18 Jan 2010 10:03:05 < kribacr> And yes - they aren't supposed to be nonce.
18 Jan 2010 10:03:10 < kribacr> I see little harm in SE derived nonce lujvo.
18 Jan 2010 10:03:12 < Twey> Well, someone has to make them up.
18 Jan 2010 10:03:22 < clsn> (and it's going to be a LONG time before we have a big enough set of well-known non-nonce ones anyway)
18 Jan 2010 10:03:24 < Twey> That's why we have za'e, after all.
18 Jan 2010 10:03:27 < datka> I don't mind that he likes Care Bears that much
18 Jan 2010 10:03:28 < kribacr> Ayup.
18 Jan 2010 10:03:43 < datka> They're on to Blues Clues again
18 Jan 2010 10:03:44  * kribacr avoids getting into his Rant Against lujvo.
18 Jan 2010 10:03:47 < kribacr> How old is your kid?
18 Jan 2010 10:03:47 < clsn> Yeah, SE-derived ones are probably always going to considered "ready-made" or something.
18 Jan 2010 10:04:01 < clsn> i.e. valid for use, not really counting as nonce.
18 Jan 2010 10:04:04 < Twey> kribacr: You created a lujvo for ‘rant against’?  Nice.  ;)
18 Jan 2010 10:04:09 < vesna> so are te, ve, xe, tol, nol, ?
18 Jan 2010 10:04:10 < kribacr> Har. :P
18 Jan 2010 10:04:17 < kribacr> sel ter vel xel
18 Jan 2010 10:04:26 < datka> kribacr: 4 1/2
18 Jan 2010 10:04:27 < Twey> tol nol nal
18 Jan 2010 10:04:28 < kribacr> Yes, some bastard made the pattern irregular.
18 Jan 2010 10:04:29 < vesna> yeah
18 Jan 2010 10:04:40 < rlpowell> Twey: A URL, in a fairly standard format?
18 Jan 2010 10:04:54 < vesna> hehehe
18 Jan 2010 10:04:59 < Twey> rlpowell: Why does it lead to a Christmas menu?  :þ
18 Jan 2010 10:05:01 < kribacr> Why would someone be worried about a 4 year old watching Care Bears and Blue's Clues?
18 Jan 2010 10:05:05 < vesna> should of said la'e
18 Jan 2010 10:05:14 < cmacis> coi rodo
18 Jan 2010 10:05:14 < clsn> (naturally the lack of a NULL converter is striking, but I can't for the life of me think of when I'd want to use it.  You could always say "sese" or something)
18 Jan 2010 10:05:15 < rlpowell> Twey: hosting a site for someone; should probably turn it off now.
18 Jan 2010 10:05:24 < Twey> On dict.lojban.org?
18 Jan 2010 10:05:26 < rlpowell> Why it goes there for *dict.*, specifiaclly, no idea.
18 Jan 2010 10:05:29 < Twey> Huh.
18 Jan 2010 10:05:32 < kribacr> clsn: I've had the same thought on that.
18 Jan 2010 10:05:48  * rlpowell looks
18 Jan 2010 10:05:58 < Twey> vesna: Except I was using English.  la'e is the default; to avoid it, one must quote.
18 Jan 2010 10:06:07 < clsn> I mean, MAYBE if someone thought something was "se broda" and you want to say "nono, it IS broda".  But that's reaching.  Using "fa" is a better way to emphasize it anyway.
18 Jan 2010 10:06:13 < vesna> :) I guess you're right Twey
18 Jan 2010 10:06:17 < kribacr> clsn: Consider the difference between {.i mi makfa se pinji} and {.i mi se ke makfa pinji}. Do {.i mi makfa pinji} and {.i mi ke makfa pinji} mean the same thing?
18 Jan 2010 10:06:27 < rlpowell> Yeah, there's no reason it should be doing that, particularly; that's apache being weird.
18 Jan 2010 10:06:36 < Twey> Hum.  Okay.
18 Jan 2010 10:06:57 < vesna> kribacr, again with your bragging about your magical penis?
18 Jan 2010 10:07:02 < Twey> Just so long as the dictionary server hasn't been taken over.
18 Jan 2010 10:07:06 < rlpowell> We have no definition setup for dict.lojban.org, so whatever is defined last wins, I think.
18 Jan 2010 10:07:08 < vesna> don't you have more humble examples?
18 Jan 2010 10:07:13 < kribacr> No, but it's a handy and easy example about that concept.
18 Jan 2010 10:07:15 < clsn> well, yeah; I mean, yes, the converter distributes differently, but since the converter is null, there's no actual difference.
18 Jan 2010 10:07:46 < rlpowell> Ah, I see how to fix it.
18 Jan 2010 10:08:04 < kribacr> clsn: I vote we strike the number 2 from existance and use {re} as "Swap x1 and x1".
18 Jan 2010 10:08:19 < rlpowell> -_-
18 Jan 2010 10:08:20 < vesna> ?q rel
18 Jan 2010 10:08:35 < clsn> (of course, you can't emphasize with {fa} within a LE construct....)
18 Jan 2010 10:08:44 < clsn> heh.  how often do you need to talk about two somethings anyway?
18 Jan 2010 10:09:14 < clsn> (I guess in that case you can say {da poi ba'e fa ke'a cu broda}
18 Jan 2010 10:09:20 < clsn> )
18 Jan 2010 10:10:23 < clsn> There needs to be a DA that is guaranteed unassigned.  Like "whatever" in METAFONT.  We're so used to saying "noda" for "nothing"; what if "da" is already bound to something in the discussion?
18 Jan 2010 10:11:06 < clsn> I guess a little like a whatever-closure in perl6 too.
18 Jan 2010 10:11:30 < kribacr> {no zo'e} ?
18 Jan 2010 10:12:03 < clsn> mm.  can {zo'e} function as a drop-in replacement for unassigned da everywhere?
18 Jan 2010 10:12:44 < vesna> IMO no
18 Jan 2010 10:12:55 < clsn> I'm not even sure how to "fix" this, esp because using {da} is so ingrained.  We can by convention *never* bind {da}, or never consider bindings on {da} to hold.  Bound {da} has been used before, but probably less often than unbound.
18 Jan 2010 10:13:10 < clsn> ("fix" in scare-quotes because it's debatable whether this needs fixing.)
18 Jan 2010 10:13:47 < kribacr> I'm willing to say {no zo'e} doesn't work or would be far too context dependant.
18 Jan 2010 10:14:00 < kribacr> Also, re: Care Bears: When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. - C. S. Lewis
18 Jan 2010 10:14:05 < clsn> (sigh, another experimental cmavo?  di'ei?)
18 Jan 2010 10:14:36 < kribacr> Let's use up some VC'CV fu'ivla space for "nothing". :P
18 Jan 2010 10:14:41 < clsn> (it really wants to be monosyllabic too)
18 Jan 2010 10:14:48 < clsn> it's not just "nothing" though.
18 Jan 2010 10:15:05 < clsn> It's all those "da poi" and "re da" and whatever that we throw around.
18 Jan 2010 10:15:36 < clsn> (maybe by convention start using {di} for that and never get up to binding {di}?
18 Jan 2010 10:15:38 < clsn> )\
18 Jan 2010 10:15:46 < clsn> Keep forgetting to close my parens!
18 Jan 2010 10:15:50 < vesna> what about: da'o .i noda
18 Jan 2010 10:16:01 < clsn> Well, yeah, you can always cancel the bindings.
18 Jan 2010 10:16:07 < vesna> hehehe
18 Jan 2010 10:16:14 < vesna> kill kill kill
18 Jan 2010 10:16:14 < kribacr> Grr!
18 Jan 2010 10:16:21 < kribacr> You killed {fo'e}!
18 Jan 2010 10:16:25 < clsn> But the point is, da was bound to something for some reason.  I don't want to mess with that, I just need an unbound one that I KNOW is unbound.
18 Jan 2010 10:17:11 < vesna> what about zu'i?
18 Jan 2010 10:17:15 < clsn> I recall Franz Lisp (I think) had a cool way of handling square brackets to mean "as many parens (right or left depending on the handedness of the bracket) as it takes to make things close up."
18 Jan 2010 10:17:33 < clsn> zu'i is if anything too specified.
18 Jan 2010 10:17:37 < vesna> krib, nice quote BTW
18 Jan 2010 10:17:50 < kribacr> C. S. Lewis is the man. :)
18 Jan 2010 10:17:50 < datka> eww, I don't think I would ever want to use that
18 Jan 2010 10:18:04 < clsn> So if you didn't remember how many ('s you were inside by now (which happened a lot in Lisp), you could just close the function with a ]
18 Jan 2010 10:18:26 < Twey> emacs still does that IIRC
18 Jan 2010 10:18:35 < clsn> More rarely you could use a [ if you found yourself ever adding more and more deep nesting to the beginning.
18 Jan 2010 10:18:42 < clsn> emacs lisp you mean?
18 Jan 2010 10:18:47 < Twey> No, emacs
18 Jan 2010 10:18:51 < Twey> If you type ] it closes them all
18 Jan 2010 10:18:51 < datka> emacs has paredit-mode that handles all the parens quite nicely
18 Jan 2010 10:18:57 < Twey> That too
18 Jan 2010 10:19:38 < clsn> emacs-lisp totally didn't like (+ (* 7 8) (- 10 3]
18 Jan 2010 10:19:45 < clsn> oh, emacs in lisp mode or something.
18 Jan 2010 10:19:51 < datka> in Clojure, (my lisp of choice) the [] is for vectors
18 Jan 2010 10:20:10 < vesna> clsn: how about "ganai da se smuni no da gi no da"
18 Jan 2010 10:20:52 < vesna> :P
18 Jan 2010 10:20:58 < clsn> see, there you even have da being used in the condition as the resuly.
18 Jan 2010 10:21:05 < clsn> I think most modern lisps have other uses for [].
18 Jan 2010 10:21:46 < vesna> I was thinking along the lines of "if (da == null) use da"
18 Jan 2010 10:22:28 < vesna> "else if (de == null) use de"... and so forth
18 Jan 2010 10:22:40 < clsn> yeah, I know.  But among other things, WAY too long-winded.
18 Jan 2010 10:22:46 < vesna> hehehe
18 Jan 2010 10:22:53 < clsn> The whole point is that we *expect* da to be unbound 99% of the time.
18 Jan 2010 10:23:05 < vesna> I suggest we switch to "du"
18 Jan 2010 10:23:15 < vesna> there's 99.99999% chance that will be unassigned
18 Jan 2010 10:23:28 < kribacr> {du} isn't a variable. :P
18 Jan 2010 10:23:34 < kribacr> {da} {de} {di} are.
18 Jan 2010 10:23:35 < vesna> oops
18 Jan 2010 10:23:38 < vesna> then do
18 Jan 2010 10:23:40 < Twey> foldl' mplus [da .. di]
18 Jan 2010 10:23:41 < vesna> oops
18 Jan 2010 10:23:45 < vesna> di
18 Jan 2010 10:23:54 < vesna> yeah.. that's what he said
18 Jan 2010 10:24:17 < clsn> Like I said above, we can use {di}...
18 Jan 2010 10:25:35 < vesna> how about: "no selvla"?
18 Jan 2010 10:26:05 < vesna> i.e. "no something-that-is-the-meaning-of-a-word"
18 Jan 2010 10:26:34 < clsn> What do words have to do with anything?
18 Jan 2010 10:27:01 < vesna> because no "thing" is not anything that can be said to have a word that refers to it
18 Jan 2010 10:27:16 < vesna> I would have said "no object" but not every "thing" is a physical object
18 Jan 2010 10:27:50 -!- datka` [n=duck@24.33.242.63] has joined #lojban
18 Jan 2010 10:28:05 < vesna> oo oo.... no xanri
18 Jan 2010 10:28:08 < clsn> yeah, you're reaching kind of afield.  this isn't supposed to be a philosophical discussion.
18 Jan 2010 10:28:21 < vesna> i.ei "no concept"
18 Jan 2010 10:28:57 < clsn> Does {no xanri} mean the same as {no da} for unbound da?  It is true that {mi tuple reda} but not {mi tuple re xanri}
18 Jan 2010 10:29:08 < clsn> keep in mind that it isn't always {no} also.
18 Jan 2010 10:30:11 < vesna> what's wrong with "mi tuple re xanri"?
18 Jan 2010 10:30:21 < vesna> a concept is not neccasarily imaginary
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18 Jan 2010 10:30:55 < clsn> xanri xar          imaginary            'unreal'             x1 [concept] exists in the imagination of/is imagined by/is imaginary to x2
18 Jan 2010 10:31:25 < clsn> While it is true that an imaginary thing need not be nonexistent, what does my legs' imagined existence have to do with ANYTHING we're talking about?
18 Jan 2010 10:31:57 < vesna> how about "lo co'e"
18 Jan 2010 10:32:13 < clsn> You are trying to find a synonym for {da}.  I don't think you'll find a really satisfying one among the gismu.  {lo bu'a}?  maybe.  {lo co'e} is the same as {zo'e}
18 Jan 2010 10:32:18 < vesna> mi tuple re lo co'e
18 Jan 2010 10:32:45 < vesna> but bu'a can be assigned
18 Jan 2010 10:33:15 < clsn> yeah, I know.  Bummer, isn't it.  that's back where we started.
18 Jan 2010 10:33:37 < vesna> fine I guess there's no way out except inventing a new experimental cmavo for a "da" that is unnasignable
18 Jan 2010 10:33:53 < vesna> I propose "da'ai"
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18 Jan 2010 10:35:36 < vesna> wait... I don't really get it...
18 Jan 2010 10:35:43 < vesna> why is "da" assignable in the first place?
18 Jan 2010 10:36:07 < vesna> isn't ko'a, ko'e, ko'i, ko'o, ko'u, fo'a, fo'e, fo'i, fo'o, fo'u enough???
18 Jan 2010 10:37:18 < clsn> da is different from ko'a.
18 Jan 2010 10:37:25 < clsn> in a way which might solve the problem, or not.
18 Jan 2010 10:37:53 < clsn> da is by default universal.  The ko'a series is sort of "unbound variable error" if you don't assign them first.
18 Jan 2010 10:39:00 < vesna> e.g. "da po'u prenu cu cusku
18 Jan 2010 10:39:56 < vesna> are you sure that the "binding" of "da" even holds for two different sentences?
18 Jan 2010 10:40:22 < clsn> Generally it doesn't... but it CAN, with enough effort.
18 Jan 2010 10:40:48 < clsn> And even if it's within a sentence, you might bind it in a prenex and then forget and use the fossilized term {noda} later in the sentence.
18 Jan 2010 10:41:07 < clsn> {da} doesn't stay bound long, which is why this isn't generally a problem.  I'm just seeing that it could be.
18 Jan 2010 10:41:40 < vesna> if you're the one that forgets that you have bound it, I see that as your problem
18 Jan 2010 10:41:57 < vesna> I was more worried about innocent people joining an ongoing conversation where da is defined
18 Jan 2010 10:42:57 < vesna> just curios: by what means could you "extend" the bouds of da to more than one sentence? and could you extend it into somebody elses sentence??
18 Jan 2010 10:43:00 < clsn> there is that, that it's your problem.  but just that unbound {da} is SO useful and so used that it's probably even more basic than bound {da}.
18 Jan 2010 10:43:26 < clsn> Hmm, I dunno, do any of the scope-indicators do that?  Explicit binding with {goi}?
18 Jan 2010 10:43:58 < vesna> I think it's up to the speaker to remember how many different da de di he has used
18 Jan 2010 10:44:34 < vesna> as long as I can say simple sentences with "da" without worriying about the consequence, I'm calm
18 Jan 2010 10:44:57 < vesna> I'm sure there are more problematic unsolved issues in the language's peculiar cmavo
18 Jan 2010 10:45:04 < clsn> heh.  fair enough,
18 Jan 2010 10:45:09 < vesna> :)
18 Jan 2010 10:45:49 < vesna> but it was a nice thought-problem, so thanks
18 Jan 2010 10:46:48  * Melvar has yet another question.
18 Jan 2010 10:47:20 < vesna> ko te preti doi melvar
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18 Jan 2010 10:47:44 < vesna> ko renro u'i
18 Jan 2010 10:48:12 < vesna> sa ko cecla
18 Jan 2010 10:48:33 < Melvar> Is each member of the so'V series implicitly part of a larger amount?
18 Jan 2010 10:49:29 < vesna> clsn: you take this one :p
18 Jan 2010 10:50:12 < vesna> mi na jimpe le preti
18 Jan 2010 10:50:25 < clsn> I thought I took the last one. :)  Well, the members of so'V are in order of size.  They're numbers.
18 Jan 2010 10:50:44 < Melvar> {so'a} and {so'e} seem to implicitly refer to some larger amount, relative to which they define themselves.
18 Jan 2010 10:51:05 < clsn> There is no implication that when you speak of {so'i broda} and then of {so'a broda} that the former are necessarily contained within the latter.
18 Jan 2010 10:51:51 < Melvar> But each of them refers to {ro broda}.
18 Jan 2010 10:52:00 < vesna> why not clsn?
18 Jan 2010 10:52:09 < clsn> They are all subsets of {ro}, yes, and thus {so'a} and {so'e} do define themselves relative to {ro}
18 Jan 2010 10:52:16 < clsn> But not relative to other so'Vs.
18 Jan 2010 10:52:32 < vesna> if, in english I talk about a few people, and then about several people, doesn't that "imply" that the second group is larger than the first?
18 Jan 2010 10:53:08 < Melvar> The question is, do the other so'Vs also require that {ro broda} be defined?
18 Jan 2010 10:53:22 < clsn> It does imply that the second is *larger* than the first, but not that the second *contains* the first.
18 Jan 2010 10:53:48 < vesna> exactly
18 Jan 2010 10:53:57 < clsn> Isn't there always some concept of {ro broda}?  Even if it's unknown or indefinite or infinite?
18 Jan 2010 10:55:13 < vesna> few people are rich, many people are poor (two noncorrelating groups)
18 Jan 2010 10:57:21 < clsn> Indeed.  "few" and "many" aren't absolute numbers; "few body-cells" numbers more individuals than "many humans" in all likelihood.  But I don't know that they relate to {ro} either, but more to something like {no'o}.  Numbers of this thing we commonly speak about.
18 Jan 2010 10:57:37 < Twey> ‘in this context
18 Jan 2010 10:57:38 < Twey> ’
18 Jan 2010 10:58:07 < clsn> Yes, I just realized that and was typing it. :)
18 Jan 2010 10:58:15 < clsn> The situation at hand matters too.
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18 Jan 2010 11:01:40 < Melvar> Is it acceptable to say {lo'i broda cu so'imei} by itself to mean that there are subjectively many sţ1, or does that require {za'uno'omei}, and is the latter even correct?
18 Jan 2010 11:01:48 < djanatyn-fonxa> .UICAICAICAI
18 Jan 2010 11:02:51 < neptunepink> COI DJANATYN
18 Jan 2010 11:04:08 < varkiclaflo`i> co'o
18 Jan 2010 11:05:32 < vesna> coi djanatyn .i pei u'i
18 Jan 2010 11:05:55 < varkiclaflo`i> oops... coi
18 Jan 2010 11:06:12 < vesna> u'i coi varkiclaflo'i
18 Jan 2010 11:07:24 < kribacr> .i xu culno lo angila doi varkiclaflo'i
18 Jan 2010 11:07:46 < neptunepink> zo varkiclaflo'i .oi
18 Jan 2010 11:08:47 < varkiclaflo`i> in case djanatyn or anyone else cares to know, I used to be I_am_not_Bob until someone or another said my nick was to long
18 Jan 2010 11:09:08 < vesna> well now it's definitely NOT LONG ENOUGH :)
18 Jan 2010 11:09:24 < vesna> je'unai
18 Jan 2010 11:10:28 < rlpowell> Twey: Oh, dict. thing fixed.  Forgot to mention.
18 Jan 2010 11:10:44 < vesna> kribacr: why did you ask if he was full off eels?
18 Jan 2010 11:11:09 < varkiclaflo`i> well, it's easier to say "coi varkiclaflo'i" than it was to say hi to I_am_not_Bob
18 Jan 2010 11:11:11 < Twey> rlpowell: Thanks
18 Jan 2010 11:11:39 < vesna> why? "coi la'oi I_am_not_Bob" seems eays
18 Jan 2010 11:12:12 < varkiclaflo`i> longer...
18 Jan 2010 11:12:14 < kribacr> Because he's a hovercraft.
18 Jan 2010 11:12:35 < vesna> is that a reference to a horror film?
18 Jan 2010 11:13:06 < varkiclaflo`i> no. not AFAIK
18 Jan 2010 11:13:25 < kribacr> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6D1YI-41ao
18 Jan 2010 11:14:00 < vesna> it may be longer not-bob, but it's easier to copy english-spelled words than lojban lujvo... at least for english native speakers who are not yet comfortable enough with lojban
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18 Jan 2010 11:14:48 -!- IRC is now known as totus
18 Jan 2010 11:16:00 < vesna> lmao la'e di'u
18 Jan 2010 11:16:27 < clsn> So THAT's the origin of the "my hovercraft is full of eels" line??  Wow.
18 Jan 2010 11:16:47 < kribacr> clsn: You seriously have never seen that? O_o
18 Jan 2010 11:17:03 < vesna> !me
18 Jan 2010 11:17:23 < clsn> I don't think I have, tbh.  I mean, I knew the phrase and all, and I've seen various other MPFC sketches.  I may not have seen that one.
18 Jan 2010 11:18:50 < rlpowell> clsn: 0.o
18 Jan 2010 11:19:09 < clsn> Go figure.
18 Jan 2010 11:24:26 < varkiclaflo`i> I choose a nick with implications i never guessed... u'i
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18 Jan 2010 11:35:46 < Melvar> varkiclaflo`i, why does your name contain a “`” rather than a “ʼ”?
18 Jan 2010 11:36:09 -!- varkiclaflo`i is now known as varkiclaflo
18 Jan 2010 11:36:19 < varkiclaflo> because that happens
18 Jan 2010 11:36:24 -!- varkiclaflo is now known as varkiclaflo`i
18 Jan 2010 11:37:25 < CodeBlock> coi rodo
18 Jan 2010 11:38:51 < kribacr> coi la'oi CodeBlock
18 Jan 2010 11:38:56 -!- neptunepink is now known as purpleposeidon
18 Jan 2010 11:39:31 < purpleposeidon> varkiclaflo`i: Don't let them boss you around re. nick length! :P
18 Jan 2010 11:39:35 -!- AngusRF [n=AngusRF@p5B0835D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Don't let gravity get you down"]
18 Jan 2010 11:39:56 < purpleposeidon> vesna: EELS ON A HOVERCRAFT!
18 Jan 2010 11:48:23 -!- Melvar is now known as varkiclaflo
18 Jan 2010 11:48:30 -!- varkiclaflo is now known as Melvar
18 Jan 2010 11:49:02 < djanatyn-fonxa> CRABS ON A HOVERCRAFT
18 Jan 2010 11:49:27 < Melvar> Nick fail: UTF-8 is not accepted.
18 Jan 2010 11:49:43 < varkiclaflo`i> Raptors on HoverBOARDS!
18 Jan 2010 11:50:40 < djanatyn-fonxa> LOJBANISTS ON UNAMBIGUOUS LUVJO
18 Jan 2010 11:50:48 < purpleposeidon> Melvar: And that's a very good thing.
18 Jan 2010 11:50:48 < djanatyn-fonxa> YOUR BRAIN ON DRUGS!
18 Jan 2010 11:51:08  * djanatyn-fonxa becomes quiet
18 Jan 2010 11:51:22  * djanatyn-fonxa smaji
18 Jan 2010 11:51:33  * varkiclaflo`i looks at djanatyn awkwardly
18 Jan 2010 11:51:51 < Twey> Melvar: Because some characters are reserved by IRC, and thus not allowed in nicks
18 Jan 2010 11:51:58 < purpleposeidon> otherwise, there'd be people like "as͟ df and as_df"
18 Jan 2010 11:52:23 < Twey> Lots of IRC servers allow Unicode nicks.
18 Jan 2010 11:52:32 < purpleposeidon> ohgod
18 Jan 2010 11:52:38 < purpleposeidon> I pity then, those IRC servers.
18 Jan 2010 11:53:01 < Twey> Well, limiting users to ASCII is not a good solution
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18 Jan 2010 11:53:17 < Twey> I think that somebody needs to come up with a Unicode subset that contains no easily confusable characters
18 Jan 2010 11:53:23 < timonator> uh
18 Jan 2010 11:53:25 < purpleposeidon> You could have people with nicks that are identical except for some little mark that nobody can see.
18 Jan 2010 11:53:26 < timonator> punycode?
18 Jan 2010 11:53:32 < Twey> Or else devise an algorithm for equality that takes them into account
18 Jan 2010 11:53:36 < Twey> Does Punycode do that?
18 Jan 2010 11:53:57 < Twey> purpleposeidon: Like Twey vs. Twey`?  :þ
18 Jan 2010 11:54:13 < purpleposeidon> No, like y vs y.
18 Jan 2010 11:54:22 < Melvar> Punycode is a mapping of Unicode into printable ASCII characters, used in Internationalized Domain Names.
18 Jan 2010 11:54:29 < Twey> purpleposeidon: 19:53:16 < Twey> I think that somebody needs to come up with a Unicode subset that contains no easily confusable characters
18 Jan 2010 11:54:30 < purpleposeidon> except the y has a zero-width char or something.
18 Jan 2010 11:54:30 < varkiclaflo`i> or m`e to m'e
18 Jan 2010 11:54:34 < Twey> Melvar: Yeah
18 Jan 2010 11:54:43 < Twey> timonator: I don't think Punycode does that.
18 Jan 2010 11:54:49 < timonator> it does not?
18 Jan 2010 11:54:56 < Twey> Nope.  Straight mapping from Unicode.
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18 Jan 2010 11:55:00 < purpleposeidon> So is it more like a hexadecimal representation?
18 Jan 2010 11:55:09 < Twey> purpleposeidon: It's an ASCII representation of Unicode
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18 Jan 2010 11:55:32 < Melvar> An awfully complex algorithm, to my mind.
18 Jan 2010 11:55:39 < Twey> It is pretty baroque
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18 Jan 2010 12:01:12 < Melvar> Strange that some characters just cut off the nick but the rest is accepted, while others are rejected outright.
18 Jan 2010 12:01:43 < Melvar> Okay, that was weird.
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18 Jan 2010 12:02:20 < varkiclaflo`i> that is why i use "`" instead of "'"
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18 Jan 2010 12:03:04 < clsn> Maybe some characters are considered argument-delimiting and some within the argument, but illegal for a name.
18 Jan 2010 12:03:34 -!- varkiclaflo`i is now known as varkiclaflo\
18 Jan 2010 12:03:43 < varkiclaflo\> nope, escaping doesn't work
18 Jan 2010 12:03:47 -!- varkiclaflo\ is now known as varkiclaflo`i
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18 Jan 2010 12:05:55 < Melvar> So “’” doesn’t work either.
18 Jan 2010 12:06:48 < varkiclaflo`i> nopr
18 Jan 2010 12:06:50 < varkiclaflo`i> *nope\
18 Jan 2010 12:06:53 < varkiclaflo`i> *nope
18 Jan 2010 12:07:45 < CodeBlock> what's the equivalent of a question mark in lojban? For example how would I say "are you around?"
18 Jan 2010 12:07:50  * CodeBlock feels noobish for asking that, but eh
18 Jan 2010 12:08:14 < varkiclaflo`i> "xu" turns a stament into question
18 Jan 2010 12:08:26 < Melvar> So we’ve tried U+0027, U+02BC and U+2019, and all of them cut off.
18 Jan 2010 12:08:53 < CodeBlock> varkiclaflo`i: ah alright, thanks :D
18 Jan 2010 12:09:46 < kribacr> There's no question mark in lojban. Though it's not wrong, it's not lojbanic.
18 Jan 2010 12:10:14 < kribacr> {.i xu do jundi} is a good way to ask "Are you here" (more literally "Are you paying attention (to something)?")
18 Jan 2010 12:10:36 < Melvar> It appears to be a general restriction to ASCII. Not even Latin-1 works.
18 Jan 2010 12:11:11 < clsn> or {.a'apei} or {re'ipei} or {be'e} perhaps.
18 Jan 2010 12:11:22 < clsn> Closest thing to a question mark is {pau} probably.
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18 Jan 2010 12:11:33 < kribacr> Yeah.
18 Jan 2010 12:12:06 < kribacr> I've never used {pau}, only {pau nai}.
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18 Jan 2010 12:20:02 < dbrock> CodeBlock: huh?
18 Jan 2010 12:20:51 < CodeBlock> hi dbrock
18 Jan 2010 12:20:58 < dbrock> hi :)
18 Jan 2010 12:21:50 < CodeBlock> dbrock: yeah i was here before you told me in twitter; just had not conversed with you :P
18 Jan 2010 12:22:12 < CodeBlock> s/in twitter/on twitter/ i guess
18 Jan 2010 12:22:17 < dbrock> ah!
18 Jan 2010 12:23:41 < dbrock> clsn, kribacr: I like using {pau} as a question mark
18 Jan 2010 12:23:50 < dbrock> (I don't do it often, but I like doing it)
18 Jan 2010 12:24:01 < clsn> I don't usually remember to use it for anything.
18 Jan 2010 12:24:27 < clsn> It's probably better as a ¿ since it seems more useful at the beginning of a sentence, as a flag that "question is coming up"
18 Jan 2010 12:24:31 < dbrock> some people seem to think {pau} should only be used to indicate that an actual question is about to follow
18 Jan 2010 12:24:50 < dbrock> but I think {pau} is more useful as a generic way to turn an utterance into a question
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18 Jan 2010 12:25:11 < clsn> Hmm... Maybe, but it isn't really clear what question you're asking in that case.
18 Jan 2010 12:25:23 < dbrock> that depends on the context
18 Jan 2010 12:25:27 < clsn> If you mean the way we do in English, it's usually {xu}.
18 Jan 2010 12:26:15 < dbrock> e.g., {.i pau do nelci ko'a}
18 Jan 2010 12:26:27 < dbrock> or make it {.i pau ti'e do nelci ko'a}
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18 Jan 2010 12:28:54 < dbrock> sort of equivalent to {.i ti'e do nelci ko'a .i mo}
18 Jan 2010 12:29:01 < dbrock> "I hear you like ko'a?"
18 Jan 2010 12:29:30 < timonator> what about {i ti'e do nelci ko'a noi mo}
18 Jan 2010 12:30:11 < dbrock> yeah... but that makes it a question about {ko'a}
18 Jan 2010 12:30:20 < timonator> oh
18 Jan 2010 12:30:22 < timonator> ok.
18 Jan 2010 12:30:26 < dbrock> I want to ask about your liking ko'a
18 Jan 2010 12:30:26 < timonator> i wasn't sure of the objective
18 Jan 2010 12:30:29 < timonator> just passing by
18 Jan 2010 12:30:33 < dbrock> ah :)
18 Jan 2010 12:30:37 < timonator> {do mo nelci ko'a}? ;)
18 Jan 2010 12:30:47 < dbrock> that works too, sure
18 Jan 2010 12:30:54 < dbrock> but sounds more like "How do you like ko'a?"
18 Jan 2010 12:30:59 < dbrock> or something
18 Jan 2010 12:31:24 < timonator> ok
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18 Jan 2010 12:47:10 < lericson> doesn't do mo nelci ko'a have too many sumti?
18 Jan 2010 12:47:30 < purpleposeidon> No.
18 Jan 2010 12:47:50 < lericson> explain
18 Jan 2010 12:48:04 < purpleposeidon> nelci may have 2 sumti.
18 Jan 2010 12:48:10 < donri> you what-kind-of like them?
18 Jan 2010 12:48:13 < kribacr> {mo nelci} is a tanru.
18 Jan 2010 12:48:27 < purpleposeidon> {ma} is the question sumti.
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18 Jan 2010 12:48:34 < donri> possible answers might be prami or pendo etc
18 Jan 2010 12:48:40 < lericson> Oh.
18 Jan 2010 12:48:48 < lericson> I had mo and ma confused.
18 Jan 2010 12:49:05 < purpleposeidon> xukau la donri ku gletu nelci ko'a
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18 Jan 2010 12:49:54 < rlpowell> lojban.org is kinda broken; sorry.  Testing things.
18 Jan 2010 12:50:32 < timonator> as long as it emerges out of the ashes as THE NEW GREAT FAST LOJBAN.ORG it's all right :)
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18 Jan 2010 12:50:53 < rlpowell> That's my hope.
18 Jan 2010 12:51:00 < purpleposeidon> .ui.i'e
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18 Jan 2010 12:51:04 < timonator> oh? you expect a serious speed-up?
18 Jan 2010 12:51:07 < timonator> that's great!
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18 Jan 2010 12:51:17 < rlpowell> Not really, no.  :)  But I'm hopingfor better memory usage.
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18 Jan 2010 12:51:29 < timonator> oh god
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18 Jan 2010 12:51:30 < timonator> kill them
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18 Jan 2010 12:51:43 < rlpowell> Ummmmm.
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18 Jan 2010 12:52:03 < purpleposeidon> +R
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18 Jan 2010 12:52:11 < lericson> fuck CTCP flood
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18 Jan 2010 12:52:15 < timonator> wow
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18 Jan 2010 12:52:17 < lericson> everybody, /ignore #lojban ctcp
18 Jan 2010 12:52:18 < lericson> gogo
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18 Jan 2010 12:52:26 < purpleposeidon> WHOLLY SHIT
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18 Jan 2010 12:52:37 < lericson> Probably you shouldn't click the link either.
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18 Jan 2010 12:54:15 -!- ruvqpaf was kicked from #lojban by Tene [Tene]
18 Jan 2010 12:54:15 < lericson> Don't click that link by the way.
18 Jan 2010 12:54:21 -!- stewo was kicked from #lojban by Tene [Tene]
18 Jan 2010 12:54:23 -!- ndbswqmyacm was kicked from #lojban by Tene [Tene]
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18 Jan 2010 12:54:53 -!- cederuzlugdg was kicked from #lojban by rlpowell [rlpowell]
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18 Jan 2010 12:55:05 -!- crkywkzhguoe was kicked from #lojban by rlpowell [rlpowell]
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18 Jan 2010 12:55:17 < timonator> is that it?
18 Jan 2010 12:55:19 < cizra> nope
18 Jan 2010 12:55:21 < cizra> they'll return
18 Jan 2010 12:55:23 -!- whzdxasp was kicked from #lojban by Tene [Tene]
18 Jan 2010 12:55:23 < timonator> yes
18 Jan 2010 12:55:25 < cizra> set channel mode +R
18 Jan 2010 12:55:26 <@rlpowell> cizra: They can't.
18 Jan 2010 12:55:26 < timonator> for now we are safe
18 Jan 2010 12:55:30 <@rlpowell> It's invite-only.
18 Jan 2010 12:55:57 < cmacis> Woah, I come back after some afk for this?
18 Jan 2010 12:56:11 < donri> neat, my client detected the flood and set up ignores itself. \o/
18 Jan 2010 12:56:12 < lericson> Disable channel CTCPs for the love of deity.
18 Jan 2010 12:56:17 <@rlpowell> cizra: What does +R do?
18 Jan 2010 12:56:20 <@rlpowell> lericson: How?
18 Jan 2010 12:56:22 < timonator> donri: what client?
18 Jan 2010 12:56:29 < donri> timonator, xchat-gnome
18 Jan 2010 12:56:36 < cizra> rlpowell: Allow only identified users to spam (=
18 Jan 2010 12:56:37 < lericson> /mode #lojban +C
18 Jan 2010 12:56:37 < timonator> rlpowell: we already got people asking to be invited ;)
18 Jan 2010 12:56:51 <@rlpowell> lericson: 18-12:56 [freenode] -!- Unknown mode character C
18 Jan 2010 12:57:10 < lericson> rlpowell: Right, freenode being retarded as usual then. Let me check.
18 Jan 2010 12:57:15 < derf0> Freenode doesn't have a mode for that, AFAIK.
18 Jan 2010 12:57:26 < donri> lol isn't that a quakenet mode
18 Jan 2010 12:57:37 < derf0> donri: It depends on the IRCd, not the network :>
18 Jan 2010 12:57:43  * derf0 knows at least two which support it
18 Jan 2010 12:57:49 < donri> so does your mom *being as mature as the spammer*
18 Jan 2010 12:58:12 -!- purpleposeidon [n=poseidon@adsl-99-91-40-40.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lojban
18 Jan 2010 12:58:13 < derf0> Well, then she's better than yours at least :p
18 Jan 2010 12:58:17 < purpleposeidon> .oi
18 Jan 2010 12:58:22 -!- varkiclaflo`i [n=home@adsl-162-133-153.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lojban
18 Jan 2010 12:58:28 < lericson> Wow, freenode can't disable channel-wide CTCP?
18 Jan 2010 12:58:33 < derf0> *nods*
18 Jan 2010 12:58:36 < varkiclaflo`i> thank goodness
18 Jan 2010 12:58:46 < varkiclaflo`i> that I'm bacl
18 Jan 2010 12:58:49 < varkiclaflo`i> *back
18 Jan 2010 12:58:52 < lericson> That is utterly retarded. o_O
18 Jan 2010 12:59:03 <@rlpowell> lericson: I'm sure there is some place you can tell them that.
18 Jan 2010 12:59:21 < lericson> They're changin ircd so they probably won't care.
18 Jan 2010 12:59:24 < lericson> changing*
18 Jan 2010 12:59:34 < donri> there's user mode +C though
18 Jan 2010 12:59:46  * purpleposeidon hopes that the ircd change will get rid of this recent obnoxiousness
18 Jan 2010 12:59:50  * lericson went with /ignore #lojban ctcp
18 Jan 2010 13:00:11 < varkiclaflo`i> that didn't work for me
18 Jan 2010 13:00:13 < purpleposeidon> If there's a /ignore #* ctcp that'd be nice.
18 Jan 2010 13:00:49  * purpleposeidon has put an ignore on all ctcp
18 Jan 2010 13:00:53 < lericson> purpleposeidon: /ignore -channels ctcps
18 Jan 2010 13:01:06 < purpleposeidon> My client is not necessarily your client. :P
18 Jan 2010 13:01:08 < donri> these are irssi specific, methinks
18 Jan 2010 13:01:19 < lericson> they are
18 Jan 2010 13:01:25 < donri> /umode +C
18 Jan 2010 13:01:29 < purpleposeidon> Were those people even in the channel?
18 Jan 2010 13:01:34 < cizra> yes
18 Jan 2010 13:01:35 < purpleposeidon> I've already done that, doi donri
18 Jan 2010 13:01:37 < cizra> 'cause they got kicked
18 Jan 2010 13:01:39 < donri> so has your mom
18 Jan 2010 13:01:42 < lericson> donri: don't think that'll help channel-wide ones
18 Jan 2010 13:02:42 < purpleposeidon> .u'i new rule: Your nick must be a valid cmavo to be in #lojban
18 Jan 2010 13:02:53 <@rlpowell> Valid valsi, surely.
18 Jan 2010 13:02:55 < varkiclaflo`i> mine is!
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18 Jan 2010 13:03:05 <@rlpowell> varkiclaflo`i: Not a cmavo, it isn't.
18 Jan 2010 13:03:05 < Hugglesworth> aw shit
18 Jan 2010 13:03:24 < varkiclaflo`i> ok. I'll as an "s"
18 Jan 2010 13:03:29 < varkiclaflo`i> *add
18 Jan 2010 13:03:41 < varkiclaflo`i> maybe
18 Jan 2010 13:03:43 < kribacr> You have a valid cmene but not a valid cmevla, varkiclaflo`i.
18 Jan 2010 13:03:48 < clsn> varkiclaflo`i is I think confusing cmavo and cmevla.
18 Jan 2010 13:03:59 < kribacr> I think PP confused them first. :P
18 Jan 2010 13:04:00 < purpleposeidon> err, s/cmavo/cmene
18 Jan 2010 13:04:00 < varkiclaflo`i> wait. cmavo?
18 Jan 2010 13:04:05 <@rlpowell> varkiclaflo`i: That still wouldn't be a *cmavo*.
18 Jan 2010 13:04:06 < purpleposeidon> yes, I meant cmene. :P
18 Jan 2010 13:04:12 < lericson> I think we should have a rule that states that nicknames must be <=9 in length.
18 Jan 2010 13:04:21 <@rlpowell> lericson: Why?
18 Jan 2010 13:04:30 < lericson> because my theme looks better that way :p
18 Jan 2010 13:04:31 < purpleposeidon> I think we should make a rule that requires lericson to suck my dick.
18 Jan 2010 13:04:37 < varkiclaflo`i> .u'i
18 Jan 2010 13:04:45 < lericson> http://bsg.lericson.se/jing/697b5920ee.png
18 Jan 2010 13:04:52 < kribacr> I think the rule should be "No Norse Explorers"
18 Jan 2010 13:05:01 < kribacr> I'm looking at you, Leif Ericson!
18 Jan 2010 13:05:05 < lericson> leif? :p
18 Jan 2010 13:05:19 < purpleposeidon> That is a very nice looking terminal.
18 Jan 2010 13:05:37 < lericson> purpleposeidon: Welcome to OS X, where the CLI doesn't have to feel like sticking it up the pooper. :P
18 Jan 2010 13:06:04 < purpleposeidon> That makes no sense to me.
18 Jan 2010 13:06:05 < lericson> kribacr: also clearly I'm a Norse /conqueror/
18 Jan 2010 13:06:31 < purpleposeidon> That doesn't look like OSX to me.
18 Jan 2010 13:06:43 < lericson> purpleposeidon: a terminal can only be nice if it has nice fonts and font rendering, and Linux/X.org doesn't really do either very well
18 Jan 2010 13:06:43 < kribacr> Explorer!
18 Jan 2010 13:06:45 < lericson> it is OS X
18 Jan 2010 13:06:47 < purpleposeidon> I'm pretty sure only Linux has transparent terminals. :P
18 Jan 2010 13:07:06 < lericson> kribacr: Conqueror!
18 Jan 2010 13:07:09 < varkiclaflo`i> I'm not using a terminal... or a web app...
18 Jan 2010 13:07:10 < lericson> Konqueror*
18 Jan 2010 13:07:12 < purpleposeidon> Konqueror.
18 Jan 2010 13:07:18 < purpleposeidon> lericson: thankyou.
18 Jan 2010 13:07:23 < purpleposeidon> See, you admitted it, you're using Konsole.
18 Jan 2010 13:07:29 < varkiclaflo`i> Konversation is what I'm using
18 Jan 2010 13:07:32  * lericson hates KDE with a vengeance
18 Jan 2010 13:07:42  * mefistofeles uses konsole + irssi
18 Jan 2010 13:08:05 < purpleposeidon> I think we should make a rule that lericson has to suck my cock, 	harder
18 Jan 2010 13:08:52 < purpleposeidon> Of course, this discussion is all #jbopre :P
18 Jan 2010 13:09:34 < varkiclaflo`i> why isn't jboski working?
18 Jan 2010 13:09:38 < lericson> easy on the tough talk, tough guy :p
18 Jan 2010 13:09:50 <@rlpowell> varkiclaflo`i: Sorry, breaking things.
18 Jan 2010 13:10:06 < cmacis> What prompted the spammers?
18 Jan 2010 13:10:19  * varkiclaflo`i also asks
18 Jan 2010 13:10:22 < purpleposeidon> Not getting spam insurance?
18 Jan 2010 13:10:40 -!- lamedura [n=cabre@pedo.quebradadehumahuaca.gov.ar] has left #lojban []
18 Jan 2010 13:10:40 < lericson> cmacis: I'd rather think it's random
18 Jan 2010 13:10:48 < kribacr> Some people just want to watch the world burn. :)
18 Jan 2010 13:10:58 < timonator> fight club?
18 Jan 2010 13:11:27 < purpleposeidon> Dark Knight?
18 Jan 2010 13:11:31 < varkiclaflo`i> co'o
18 Jan 2010 13:11:39 -!- varkiclaflo`i [n=home@adsl-162-133-153.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18 Jan 2010 13:11:40 < timonator> hm
18 Jan 2010 13:11:46 < timonator> des
18 Jan 2010 13:11:47 < timonator> yes
18 Jan 2010 13:11:51 < timonator> sounds more like dark night
18 Jan 2010 13:12:01 < kribacr> Yeah, Alfred says it in the Dark Knight. :)
18 Jan 2010 13:13:04 < timonator> "… and if we're very lucky, they'll do it in that order"
18 Jan 2010 13:13:58 < purpleposeidon> Firefly.
18 Jan 2010 13:14:04 < FireFly> ._.
18 Jan 2010 13:14:07 < purpleposeidon> .u'i
18 Jan 2010 13:14:18 < purpleposeidon> Uh, Mal or what's her face.
18 Jan 2010 13:14:19 < lericson> Ridskolan 2
18 Jan 2010 13:14:29 < clsn> it's whatserface says that.
18 Jan 2010 13:14:43 < clsn> (i've watched VERY little firefly/serenity, but I remember that)
18 Jan 2010 13:14:53 < clsn> I have the DVDs, just haven't gotten through them yet.
18 Jan 2010 13:15:38 < timonator> very little?
18 Jan 2010 13:15:41 < timonator> the gunbabe said that
18 Jan 2010 13:15:44 < timonator> what was her name again?
18 Jan 2010 13:16:07 < purpleposeidon> Zoe.
18 Jan 2010 13:16:11  * purpleposeidon thanks xkcd
18 Jan 2010 13:16:13 < timonator> zoe, yes
18 Jan 2010 13:16:49 < lericson> zo'e
18 Jan 2010 13:17:38 < purpleposeidon> We never pay any attention to her.
18 Jan 2010 13:17:54 < timonator> u'i
18 Jan 2010 13:18:01 < lericson> She makes predications true.
18 Jan 2010 13:18:08 < purpleposeidon> So?
18 Jan 2010 13:18:19 < lericson> So zo'e.
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18 Jan 2010 13:18:51 < purpleposeidon> that's nice
18 Jan 2010 13:19:36 < lericson> pe'icai zo'e nelci zo'e
18 Jan 2010 13:19:46 < lericson> with a dot
18 Jan 2010 13:20:16 < purpleposeidon> what dot
18 Jan 2010 13:20:23 < lericson> cai. zo'e
18 Jan 2010 13:20:24 < timonator> zo'ė
18 Jan 2010 13:20:44 < lericson> zo'ë
18 Jan 2010 13:20:47 < timonator> no, one dot only
18 Jan 2010 13:21:07 < lericson> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_division
18 Jan 2010 13:21:09 < lericson> !!!!
18 Jan 2010 13:21:15 < timonator> oh my!
18 Jan 2010 13:21:27 < timonator> zo'ë
18 Jan 2010 13:22:10 < clsn> zo'ẹ
18 Jan 2010 13:22:11 < lericson> ge'e
18 Jan 2010 13:23:13 < clsn> zo'e̩
18 Jan 2010 13:23:17 < purpleposeidon> zo'ë̤
18 Jan 2010 13:23:25 < lericson> oh my
18 Jan 2010 13:23:26 < timonator> u'i
18 Jan 2010 13:23:28 < timonator> nice one
18 Jan 2010 13:23:46 < purpleposeidon> zo'ë̤̤̈
18 Jan 2010 13:23:51 < lericson> god I hate it when I realize that I reused an expression somebody else just used :(
18 Jan 2010 13:23:53 < purpleposeidon> (Shows up like crap)
18 Jan 2010 13:23:54 < lericson> oh shit
18 Jan 2010 13:24:03 < lericson> http://bsg.lericson.se/jing/e98f82b906.png
18 Jan 2010 13:24:10 < lericson> some serious dotting right there
18 Jan 2010 13:24:26 < purpleposeidon> Your OSX sucks obviously.
18 Jan 2010 13:24:28 < purpleposeidon> .u'i
18 Jan 2010 13:24:34 < purpleposeidon> I made your t go funny.
18 Jan 2010 13:24:54 < lericson> that you did
18 Jan 2010 13:24:57 < lericson> bastard
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18 Jan 2010 13:42:20 -!- Hugglesworth is now known as Huggles_nazvati
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18 Jan 2010 14:27:51 < cmacis> co'o rodo sipn
18 Jan 2010 14:27:54 < cmacis> si sipna
18 Jan 2010 14:29:58 < zirjacev> "coi rodo mi sipna"
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18 Jan 2010 14:37:35 -!- mode/#lojban [+o treed] by ChanServ
18 Jan 2010 14:37:45 -!- mode/#lojban [-i] by treed
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18 Jan 2010 14:38:12 <@treed> Tene
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18 Jan 2010 14:38:17 <@treed> a few hours ago
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18 Jan 2010 14:39:27 -!- mode/#lojban [+R] by treed
18 Jan 2010 14:39:46 -!- mode/#lojban [-o treed] by treed
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18 Jan 2010 14:46:26 <@Broca> What was in that link that people spammed here?
18 Jan 2010 14:46:31 -!- cmacis [n=james@cpc2-brad7-0-0-cust1137.barn.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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18 Jan 2010 14:54:38 < treed> Man.
18 Jan 2010 14:54:43 < treed> mischan
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18 Jan 2010 15:11:27 < datka> Has anyone ever attempted to translate "If you're happy and you know it"?
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18 Jan 2010 15:19:28 < Huggles_nazvati> "ganai do gleki gi'e djuno lo go'i ku gi" or something, I'm probably not using "go'i" right though
18 Jan 2010 15:19:34 -!- Huggles_nazvati is now known as Hugglesworth
18 Jan 2010 15:19:37 < Hugglesworth> also: back
18 Jan 2010 15:23:37 < Hugglesworth> jboski doesn't like that though
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18 Jan 2010 15:39:09 < cmacis> coi rodo
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18 Jan 2010 15:39:55 < cmacis> I see the wall of silence is still up
18 Jan 2010 15:40:02 < Hugglesworth> sup
18 Jan 2010 15:40:21 < Hugglesworth> cmacis: fix "ganai do gleki gi'e djuno lo go'i ku gi" for "If you're happy and you know it"!
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18 Jan 2010 15:40:33 < Hugglesworth> and 'splain why
18 Jan 2010 15:40:43 < cmacis> woah
18 Jan 2010 15:40:47 < cmacis> that's a mess
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18 Jan 2010 15:41:08 < Hugglesworth> hehe, sorry
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18 Jan 2010 16:09:47 < cmacis> mi ca catra pe'a loi jukni mu'a'a'a'a'a
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18 Jan 2010 16:34:22 -!- mode/#lojban [+i] by rlpowell
18 Jan 2010 16:34:33 -!- mode/#lojban [-i] by rlpowell
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18 Jan 2010 17:08:01 < nalzu`egasn> If I want to say crowded, would "tisna lei prenu" be enough?
18 Jan 2010 17:08:24 < nalzu`egasn> or do I need to put in another word for excessive?
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18 Jan 2010 17:30:25 < cmacis> co'o rodo sipna]
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18 Jan 2010 17:52:08 < omologos> lu tisna be loi prenu li'u doi nalzu'egasn
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18 Jan 2010 17:52:32 < omologos> .ija zo pretisna
18 Jan 2010 17:52:55 < omologos> .i la'oi #ubuntu cu pretisna
18 Jan 2010 17:56:11 < nalzu`egasn> ki'e doi omologos
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19 Jan 2010 00:19:00 < lindar> Me.
19 Jan 2010 00:21:15 < neptunepink> me la lindar
19 Jan 2010 00:22:10 < lindar> Sal. si coi
19 Jan 2010 00:23:39 < stupid2> coirodo
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19 Jan 2010 00:38:25 < lindar> coila'oistupid2domo.ixudoNElcilonuTAvlafola'oinospacespeak
19 Jan 2010 00:39:35 < Twey> nitcu me'o denpa bu vi zoi gy. stupid2 .gy.
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19 Jan 2010 00:40:47 < lindar> For la'oi?
19 Jan 2010 00:41:33 < Twey> Yes
19 Jan 2010 00:42:14 < lindar> Is that only when using no whitespace, or at all?
19 Jan 2010 00:42:28 < lericson> MI SAMPLA BAU LA PAITON I DE'A MO MA MA
19 Jan 2010 00:43:32 < lindar> I got confused because you capitalised everything except the .y'y >_>
19 Jan 2010 00:44:46 < Twey> lindar: la'oi in text runs to the next word boundary, so if you don't have any whitespace you need to mark that with a pause (which is the delimiter in speech)
19 Jan 2010 00:45:21 < lindar> Sweet.
19 Jan 2010 00:45:27 < Twey> la'oi/zo'oi are a bit semantically iffy, though.  I prefer to just avoid them.
19 Jan 2010 00:45:39 < lindar> Your face is semantically iffy.
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19 Jan 2010 00:46:15 < Twey> Since the contents aren't written in Lojban script, the meaning can be completely different based on whether it is written or spoken
19 Jan 2010 00:46:18 -!- Hugglesworth is now known as Huggles_sipna
19 Jan 2010 00:46:42 < lindar> Exactly why it's awesome.
19 Jan 2010 00:48:24 < neptunepink> I do not approve of la'oi.
19 Jan 2010 00:48:47 < lindar> Uhhh... who are you again?
19 Jan 2010 00:49:05 < neptunepink> The n00b.
19 Jan 2010 00:49:32 < lindar> Exactly. Shush. Go play with dolls or braid kribacr's neck-beard.
19 Jan 2010 00:50:21 < lindar> Why do you not approve of la'oi?
19 Jan 2010 00:50:22 < neptunepink> However, my parser is better than your parser.
19 Jan 2010 00:50:32 < lindar> >_> I don't have a parser.
19 Jan 2010 00:50:36 < lindar> I've never used a parser.
19 Jan 2010 00:50:36 < neptunepink> Exactly.
19 Jan 2010 00:50:47 < neptunepink> Because it would break the flow.
19 Jan 2010 00:50:52 < lindar> Wow, and you're trying to defend yourself based on your dependency on a parser?
19 Jan 2010 00:51:05 < neptunepink> I wrote the parser. :P
19 Jan 2010 00:51:25 < neptunepink> So you've never used jbofi'e?
19 Jan 2010 00:51:32 < lindar> Yep, that makes you cool. Now tell me all about how your 1978 Geo gets you all the ladies.
19 Jan 2010 00:52:00 < lindar> I've never used jbofi'e.
19 Jan 2010 00:52:07 < lindar> I don't need to.
19 Jan 2010 00:52:09 < neptunepink> What lies.
19 Jan 2010 00:52:19 < lindar> ...and what flow does it break, exactly?
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19 Jan 2010 00:52:41 < lindar> O_o Another cnino?
19 Jan 2010 00:54:03 <@Broca> I've seen that nick before
19 Jan 2010 00:54:24 < neptunepink> It's not familiar to me.
19 Jan 2010 00:55:04 <@Broca> Could be oldbie.
19 Jan 2010 00:55:11 < lindar> Huh.
19 Jan 2010 00:55:13 <@Broca> I've been on this channel for *gasp* ten years.
19 Jan 2010 00:55:23 < neptunepink> nowai
19 Jan 2010 00:55:38 <@Broca> Okay, maybe not _this_ channel.
19 Jan 2010 00:55:47 <@Broca> But I was on #lojban on EFnet back in 2000.
19 Jan 2010 00:55:54  * treed has been on this IRC channel since 2002
19 Jan 2010 00:56:02 < treed> maybe late 2001
19 Jan 2010 00:56:08 < treed> broca predates me
19 Jan 2010 00:56:48 < neptunepink> Broca: Can I call you grandpa?
19 Jan 2010 00:56:55 <@Broca> neptunepink: no. Go away.
19 Jan 2010 00:57:01 < lindar> xD
19 Jan 2010 00:57:03 < lindar> Face.
19 Jan 2010 00:57:22 <@Broca> But you can call me uncle if you want?
19 Jan 2010 00:58:10 < lindar> Oh yeah, wasn't there an article about that? In Lojbanistan we don't differentiate in family names?
19 Jan 2010 00:58:40 < lindar> Like if a friend around my age had kids, I'd be Uncle Lindar.
19 Jan 2010 00:58:48 < neptunepink> Great Uncle Broca
19 Jan 2010 00:58:51 < lindar> xD
19 Jan 2010 00:59:21 < lindar> Oh, that's actually something that came up mentally about Lojban a while back.
19 Jan 2010 00:59:32 < lindar> How does one refer to parents or other familiar relations?
19 Jan 2010 00:59:53 < lindar> la patfu ? le patfu ?
19 Jan 2010 01:00:54  * neptunepink walks up and down Broca's lawn
19 Jan 2010 01:04:43 <@Broca> rirni. lazmi'u.
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19 Jan 2010 01:07:00 < lindar> Yes, but how would you call them?
19 Jan 2010 01:07:09 < neptunepink> In English, there's "my dad" vs. "Dad"
19 Jan 2010 01:07:31 < lindar> Would you say "le patfu ku co'e" or "la patfu ku co'e"?
19 Jan 2010 01:08:08 < neptunepink> la patfu is more specific. For yourself.
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19 Jan 2010 01:10:29 < treed> I'd say le
19 Jan 2010 01:10:34 < treed> or just doi patfu
19 Jan 2010 01:10:38 < treed> but le usually
19 Jan 2010 01:10:42 < treed> la is for names
19 Jan 2010 01:10:48 <@Broca> I'm not sure what the difference is.
19 Jan 2010 01:11:07 < treed> My father's name is David.
19 Jan 2010 01:11:11 < treed> Dad is a title.
19 Jan 2010 01:11:24 < neptunepink> Are title's really discussed?
19 Jan 2010 01:11:45 < treed> Not, usually, but I don't think it's appropriate to use a la for a title.
19 Jan 2010 01:11:58 < neptunepink> I think the CLL mentions "mi poi pajni"
19 Jan 2010 01:12:12 < neptunepink> *noi
19 Jan 2010 01:12:19 <@Broca> I remember one episode, when I was maybe 10, and I was on the phone with my cousin. He wanted to speak to “mum”. I thought that was a somewhat unusual request, but I obliged, and got my mother on the phone for him. But it turned out I had in fact misunderstood. He wanted to talk to _his_ mother, my aunt, who was visiting at the time.
19 Jan 2010 01:12:54 < neptunepink> A Lesson in Empathy?
19 Jan 2010 01:13:05 < treed> A lesson in "This is not a name"
19 Jan 2010 01:13:32 < neptunepink> mum's the word
19 Jan 2010 01:13:53 < neptunepink> zo mamta valsi
19 Jan 2010 01:16:53 < neptunepink> sipna
19 Jan 2010 01:19:34 < lindar> Huh.
19 Jan 2010 01:20:26 < lindar> So when you say, "Hey Dad, what are you doing today?" you'd say {doi patfu . . . } thereby referring to him as le patfu?
19 Jan 2010 01:26:49 < treed> lo patfu, and yes
19 Jan 2010 01:26:54 < treed> doi lo patfu be mi
19 Jan 2010 01:27:05 < treed> doi patfu do mo ca le cabdei
19 Jan 2010 01:38:00 < lindar> Problem: Refgram explicitly states that {doi *selbri*} means {doi le *selbri* ku do'u}.
19 Jan 2010 01:40:02 < Twey> Refgram is pre-xorlo
19 Jan 2010 01:40:16 < Twey> (but ‘le’ does seem more useful here)
19 Jan 2010 01:47:10 < lindar> So... what's the official answer?
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