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21 Jan 2010 05:05:33 < djanatyn> coi .i co'o .i coi .i co'o
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21 Jan 2010 05:08:11 < cmacis> coi rodo
21 Jan 2010 05:08:20 < LogicalDash> coi cmacis .i do mo
21 Jan 2010 05:08:33 < cmacis> cikna binxo
21 Jan 2010 05:08:34 < cmacis> .oi
21 Jan 2010 05:08:58 < LogicalDash> la cmacis. cu cikna binxo ma
21 Jan 2010 05:09:21 < cmacis> lo cikna
21 Jan 2010 05:09:30 < LogicalDash> u'i.zo'o
21 Jan 2010 05:10:07 < LogicalDash> mi puzi'e xrukla la jbogu'e .i ma nuzba
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21 Jan 2010 05:31:41 < cmacis> sizable split
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21 Jan 2010 06:03:02 < CodeBlock> coi rodo
21 Jan 2010 06:04:33 < mathw> coi la'oi CodeBlock
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21 Jan 2010 06:21:11 < cmacis> co'o rodo
21 Jan 2010 06:21:16 < cmacis> need to go to the chemists
21 Jan 2010 06:21:38 < timonator> co'o
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21 Jan 2010 06:34:29 < xalbo> coi ro do
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21 Jan 2010 06:35:40 < xalbo> za'a zo'e pe la .irc. pu porpi
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21 Jan 2010 06:46:13 < feliks> .i'unai
21 Jan 2010 06:46:52 < cmacis> coi rodo mi xruti
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21 Jan 2010 06:49:37 < xalbo> coi xruti
21 Jan 2010 06:50:31 < xalbo> doi la .feliks. do na jimpe fi ma
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21 Jan 2010 06:54:42 < mathw> coi xalbo
21 Jan 2010 06:55:03 < xalbo> coi la'oi mathw
21 Jan 2010 06:55:37 < xalbo> .i .u'u mi morji tolstati .i ma do jbocme
21 Jan 2010 06:58:17 < mathw> la'a la mat.
21 Jan 2010 07:00:00 < kribacr> My joking in saying {coi xalbo} instead of {coi la xalbo} might be not a good idea... I probably shouldn't do it.
21 Jan 2010 07:00:39 < xalbo> .i coi junri mi'e xalbo
21 Jan 2010 07:01:09 < xalbo> je'e .mat.
21 Jan 2010 07:02:30 < mathw> kribacr: It should be {coi la xalbo} then? I should have noticed.
21 Jan 2010 07:03:26 < kribacr> Yes, it should be {coi la xalbo}, {coi xalbo} is actually {coi le xalbo} - xalbo often jokes that he's xalbo, so I joke back at him by calling him as such.
21 Jan 2010 07:05:39 < kribacr> COI followed by a selbri is =COI le selbri= whereas COI followed by a cmevla is more obviously going to be =COI la cmevla=
21 Jan 2010 07:06:02 < kribacr> That's why you can get away with {coi .kribacr.} but not {coi xalbo}.
21 Jan 2010 07:06:09 < xalbo> Names can be of two sorts: cmevla (which end in consonants) and selbri (like {xalbo}).  COI (that is, {coi} and the other vocatives) can be followed by: a cmevla ({coi .mat.}); a selbri, in which case an implicit {le} is inserted ({coi le xalbo}), or a sumti
21 Jan 2010 07:06:19 < xalbo> And I see I typed that too slow and got scooped :)
21 Jan 2010 07:07:05 < kribacr> hehe :)
21 Jan 2010 07:08:05 < feliks> doi la .xalbo. do'u mi'o na jimpe lo fenki pe la .irc.
21 Jan 2010 07:09:03 < xalbo> .i no da jimpe .oi ro'e
21 Jan 2010 07:13:16 < feliks> sorry, too new to decipher: you don't understand me or the irc funkyness? be gentle, got started the other day :)
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21 Jan 2010 07:18:58 < timonator> the latter
21 Jan 2010 07:19:27 < mathw> You both explained it very well, thank you
21 Jan 2010 07:19:54 -!- gunkamanti__ [n=sarefo@213.83.32.130] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21 Jan 2010 07:21:23 < mathw> .i la xalbo .e la kribacr cu mutce xamgu ctuca
21 Jan 2010 07:21:55 < xalbo> ki'e
21 Jan 2010 07:22:33 < mathw> .i mi na xamgu se ctuca
21 Jan 2010 07:24:06 -!- Darxus [n=darxus@panic.chaosreigns.com] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 07:26:40 < mathw> .i mi nitcu lonu terve'u lo mapti sunla kei lonu ba nivji lo kelci jakne
21 Jan 2010 07:26:52 < mathw> Or is there a better way to say that
21 Jan 2010 07:29:33 < kribacr> I don't understand {kelci jakne} as pertaining to knitting but it looks fine.
21 Jan 2010 07:31:39 -!- acrid [n=mckay@204.126.146.202] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 07:32:08 < xalbo> It's fun seeing words I half remember, and confusing them with other words I half remember (due to underusing both).
21 Jan 2010 07:32:16 < xalbo> In this case, {sunla} and {sluni}
21 Jan 2010 07:32:20 < mathw> {kelci jakne} is supposed to be a toy rocket, which in this case is manufactured by knitting
21 Jan 2010 07:32:31 < timonator> i read that as "worlds"
21 Jan 2010 07:32:34 < timonator> that did not make much sense
21 Jan 2010 07:45:36 < mathw> You say {renonpa} for 2001
21 Jan 2010 07:45:39 < mathw> argh
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21 Jan 2010 07:45:43 < mathw> You say {renonopa} for 2001
21 Jan 2010 07:45:46 < mathw> argh
21 Jan 2010 07:45:49 < mathw> wrong CHANNEL
21 Jan 2010 07:49:08 -!- codrus [n=codrus@m2e0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 07:49:46 < codrus> coi lo pendo ne lo lojbo
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21 Jan 2010 07:56:23 < mathw> How would I say that I am going to do something, then do something else? Such as going shopping, then going home
21 Jan 2010 07:57:15 < codrus> .ibaku is "Then, "
21 Jan 2010 07:57:37 < xalbo> {.i ba bo} is what you want.
21 Jan 2010 07:58:49 < xalbo> .i mi te vecnu kalte .i ba bo mi klama lo zdani
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21 Jan 2010 07:59:00 < xalbo> or {.i mi te vecnu kalte gi'e ba bo klama lo zdani}
21 Jan 2010 07:59:38 < codrus> also, if you did {.i <bridi> .i ba <selbri>} then it means you did the second statement after the first (it's in the future of the first)
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21 Jan 2010 08:00:45 < mathw> Thanks
21 Jan 2010 08:00:55 < mathw> co'o
21 Jan 2010 08:01:16 < codrus> co'o
21 Jan 2010 08:01:48 < xalbo> No, it means the second is in the future of some time.  Maybe after the first statement, maybe just after now.  {.i ba bo} is what makes it specifically after the first.
21 Jan 2010 08:02:15 < codrus> ua
21 Jan 2010 08:03:07 < codrus> ie
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21 Jan 2010 08:04:59 < codrus> coi daniel
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21 Jan 2010 08:07:54 < xalbo> Is the channel still +R?
21 Jan 2010 08:08:04 < xalbo> and if so, is it time to fix that?
21 Jan 2010 08:08:47 <@Broca> It is still +R
21 Jan 2010 08:08:51 <@Broca> Shouldn't it be?
21 Jan 2010 08:10:09 < xalbo> Well, vensa just privmsg'd me, apparently didn't get the messages that only registered and identified users could speak here.  Isn't that what +R does?
21 Jan 2010 08:11:37 < xalbo> ISTR that we only set +R recently, as a result of attacks.  Are those still ongoing?
21 Jan 2010 08:11:50 < xalbo> It seems like an easy way to really quickly alienate newcomers.
21 Jan 2010 08:12:54 -!- durka42 [n=Adium@d252.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit ["Leaving."]
21 Jan 2010 08:14:04 < xalbo> vensa says that he has been speaking on channel for a while, and thought we were just ignoring him, or there was a netsplit or something.  Apparently missed whatever message tells him about +R, or didn't understand it.
21 Jan 2010 08:14:13 <@Broca> Right. But I have no idea if the attacks are still ongoing.
21 Jan 2010 08:14:25 -!- mode/#lojban [-R] by Broca
21 Jan 2010 08:14:30 < xalbo> That's the easy way to find out.
21 Jan 2010 08:14:38  * Broca ducks and covers
21 Jan 2010 08:14:44 < xalbo> vensa: say something so we can see if we can hear you now
21 Jan 2010 08:15:13 < vensa> coi
21 Jan 2010 08:15:17 < xalbo> .ui
21 Jan 2010 08:15:45 < vensa> Thanks. I will register anyway
21 Jan 2010 08:16:09 < vensa> I just think it's a shame that users who are new to this channel and to IRC may not understand what is going on... :(
21 Jan 2010 08:16:52 < xalbo> We'll see how it works.
21 Jan 2010 08:17:04 -!- mode/#lojban [+o xalbo] by ChanServ
21 Jan 2010 08:17:26 <@xalbo> I'll turn it back on if we do have problems.  In general, registering is a good move anyway.
21 Jan 2010 08:17:51 <@xalbo> I'm just glad you went to privmsg instead of being offended we were ignoring you, and leaving.
21 Jan 2010 08:18:05 < vensa> :)
21 Jan 2010 08:19:58 < vensa> so, getting back to my question: is " mi ba klama le zarci .ibabo mi klama le mi zdani" same as "mi ba klama le zarci .ebabo le mi zdani"
21 Jan 2010 08:20:02 < vensa> ?
21 Jan 2010 08:22:52 <@xalbo> Yes.
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21 Jan 2010 08:22:57 < vensa> cool
21 Jan 2010 08:23:04 <@xalbo> Those two should be just the same.
21 Jan 2010 08:23:17 < vensa> ki'e
21 Jan 2010 08:26:49 < feliks> every time i scan the cmavo list for learning something and my eyes catch 'elidible', my brain catches 'edible' :P (english isn't my mother tongue)
21 Jan 2010 08:26:52 < vensa> mi puzimo'u terbejbi'o la nikserv.
21 Jan 2010 08:27:29 <@xalbo> edible terminators, yum!
21 Jan 2010 08:27:31 < vensa> an edible terminator... sounds yummy, yet hazardous
21 Jan 2010 08:27:56 < vensa> "eat at your own risk!"
21 Jan 2010 08:28:06 < feliks> heheh
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21 Jan 2010 08:30:51 <@xalbo> It cannot be bargained with.  It cannot be reasoned with.  It can, however, be served with a white wine sauce.
21 Jan 2010 08:31:01 < vensa> zo ku cu se citka sisti => "ku" is an edible terminator
21 Jan 2010 08:31:53 < vensa> doi xalbo do'u xu lo xarju
21 Jan 2010 08:32:40 <@xalbo> .i li'a xarnu xarju
21 Jan 2010 08:33:01 < vensa> u'i
21 Jan 2010 08:33:34 < vensa> just remembered another question I had: could "la'acu'i" gloss as "maybe"?
21 Jan 2010 08:34:53 <@xalbo> I've used it that way myself.
21 Jan 2010 08:35:33 < vensa> good. that's always a good sign :)
21 Jan 2010 08:35:45 < vensa> la'acu'i mi ba klama le zarci
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21 Jan 2010 08:39:33 < selckiku> coi jbopre
21 Jan 2010 08:39:37 < selckiku> xo do jundi
21 Jan 2010 08:39:42 < vensa> coi selckiku
21 Jan 2010 08:39:45 < selckiku> .i mi fanva sidju nitcu
21 Jan 2010 08:39:47 < selckiku> coi la vensa
21 Jan 2010 08:40:12 < selckiku> .i ma jbobau xe fanva zoi .gy. ecstasy .gy.
21 Jan 2010 08:40:52 < vensa> xu mutce gleki la'acu'i
21 Jan 2010 08:40:56 < vensa> u'i
21 Jan 2010 08:41:09 <@xalbo> .i se cinmo gi'i xukmi
21 Jan 2010 08:41:45 < selckiku> .i .ia se cinmo .i mi pemci fanva
21 Jan 2010 08:41:49 < selckiku> coi la xalbo
21 Jan 2010 08:42:53 < vensa> <makfa> lujvo {tcegei} from tanru {mutce gleki} glossing to "overjoyed", "delighted", "ecstatic"   g1 is delighted/ecstatic/overjoyed about g2 (event/state).
21 Jan 2010 08:43:13 < vensa> hehehe... I was right
21 Jan 2010 08:43:26 < vensa> not very poetic... but apparently exists
21 Jan 2010 08:44:00 < vensa> I'm thinking you could also try to combine "overwhelmed": <makfa> lujvo {dusfri} from tanru {dukse lifri} glossing to "overwhelmed", "satiated"   x1 is satiated/overwhelmed by x2 with property x3 by standard x4; x2 is too much for x1 in property x3 by standard x4.   Notes: See also {be'unai}
21 Jan 2010 08:47:48 < selckiku> za'e zandusfri
21 Jan 2010 08:49:03 < vensa> xamgu simlu
21 Jan 2010 08:49:41 < vensa> of course you're running into the problem that it's not (yet) in the dictionary
21 Jan 2010 08:51:40 < selckiku> yeah i would prefer an established word
21 Jan 2010 08:52:00 < selckiku> you've been studying a lot lately, huh vensa?
21 Jan 2010 08:52:08 < vensa> isn't it better to use an already existing word? and if you want the event itself instead of the selbri, you could use nunytcegei
21 Jan 2010 08:52:17 < selckiku> i was thinking of inventing a lujvo for that, a nintadni who's been studying a lot lately
21 Jan 2010 08:52:21 < vensa> a little each day
21 Jan 2010 08:52:27 < vensa> hehehe
21 Jan 2010 08:52:39 < selckiku> so far i have "zanfri" but i think maybe "tcegei" is better.. neither is quite right
21 Jan 2010 08:53:46 < vensa> how about "mutce tcegei"? :p
21 Jan 2010 08:54:14 < selckiku> well i kind of don't want to complicate this tanru, here i'll copy the context
21 Jan 2010 08:54:14 < vensa> or "traji tcegei"
21 Jan 2010 08:55:10 < selckiku> Original English:I set my pen to paper / And in the strange ecstasy of creation / I write myself / A broken record.
21 Jan 2010 08:56:06 < selckiku> mi punji lo mi penbi lo papri / gi'e cizra (tcegei?) finti / ciska se va'u mi / (li'o)
21 Jan 2010 08:56:44 < vensa> I think nunytcegei is a good gloss for "ecstasy". I also believe that it is less "nonce" because it only employs "nun" and that's pretty obvious...(correct me if I'm worng)
21 Jan 2010 08:57:28 < vensa> if tcegei glosses to ""overjoyed", "delighted", "ecstatic"" then "nuntcegei" should be either "overjoyedness"/"delightedness"/or "ecstacy"
21 Jan 2010 08:57:46 < vensa> since the former two don't really make sense... then the latter holds, and you get what you wanted
21 Jan 2010 09:01:10 < selckiku> yeah some rafsi are more productive than others, for instance in decreasing order of productiveness: sel, nun, tce, jbo
21 Jan 2010 09:01:44 < vensa> question being, can ytou actually REdefine a lujvo that only uses "sel" or "nun"?
21 Jan 2010 09:01:47 < selckiku> but i say you can make up lujvo as much as you want, as long as you say "za'e"
21 Jan 2010 09:02:08 < selckiku> nun, maybe but probably not, sel, almost definitely not, that would be my attitude
21 Jan 2010 09:02:20 < vensa> i c
21 Jan 2010 09:02:35 < selckiku> i mean there is some different connotations to "nunsla" than "nu salci" already, people have been saying "nunsla" for years and it means a little something
21 Jan 2010 09:02:54 < selckiku> people have been saying "selkla" for years too though and it still means exactly the same as "se klama"
21 Jan 2010 09:03:29 < vensa> pe'i as long as nunsla isn't in the dictionary then it can only mean "nu salci"
21 Jan 2010 09:03:57 < vensa> how about: "gi'e ca lenu cizra tcegei finti"?
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21 Jan 2010 09:04:29 < selckiku> what's "the" dictionary?  jbovlaste?
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21 Jan 2010 09:04:50 < vensa> I have no idea. but the learning material always referes to "the" dictionary
21 Jan 2010 09:04:56 < selckiku> to me the real lojban is the one i've known and experienced.. there are a lot of words with rich histories
21 Jan 2010 09:05:14 < vensa> problem is that there are also alot of newbies (like me) out there
21 Jan 2010 09:05:23 < vensa> and we shouldn't be expected to "guess" meanings
21 Jan 2010 09:05:36 < selckiku> jbovlaste is the best dictionary we have, and it's gotten WAY better the past few years, but it doesn't encompass everything
21 Jan 2010 09:06:04 < vensa> well, I opine that for the things that it does not encompass, there should be given a free range of interpretation
21 Jan 2010 09:06:14 < selckiku> well you'll learn a lot of meanings and connotations by hanging out here
21 Jan 2010 09:06:25 < vensa> I'm not sure I want to
21 Jan 2010 09:06:47 < vensa> I would like to remain "pure" and only rely on "logic" to determine meaning (or on a dictionary)
21 Jan 2010 09:06:48 < selckiku> Lojban's a living language, that's part of what i like about it, it has some depth to it
21 Jan 2010 09:07:28 < selckiku> meaning is a very rich, deep thing.. a dictionary can only portray a small part of it
21 Jan 2010 09:07:33 < feliks> "Fie, fie, how franticly I square my talk!" -> {.oiro'ecai za'a le kurfenki cu se binxo lo mi tavla} does that work? been chewing on it this afternoon
21 Jan 2010 09:07:36 < vensa> That's nice. But I think that "depth" should either be "instituted" in a dictionary, or left alone
21 Jan 2010 09:07:53 < feliks> there you got something that likely never computes in logic
21 Jan 2010 09:08:06 < selckiku> "lo mi tavla" is a talker related to me
21 Jan 2010 09:08:26 < feliks> dang, ok
21 Jan 2010 09:08:38 < selckiku> "le se cusku be mi" is the things i say
21 Jan 2010 09:08:42 < selckiku> i'm not sure if that's right though?
21 Jan 2010 09:09:00 < vensa> I'm still stuck on "kurfenki"
21 Jan 2010 09:09:28 < vensa> is that some sort of quote, feliks?
21 Jan 2010 09:09:35 < selckiku> square + craziy, isn't it?
21 Jan 2010 09:09:37 < feliks> that's tongue-in-cheek from tanru square-crazy
21 Jan 2010 09:09:56 < feliks> it's Edwin A. Abbott, Flatland http://www.gutenberg.org/files/201/201-h/201-h.htm
21 Jan 2010 09:10:18 < codrus> vensa: bleh institutions
21 Jan 2010 09:10:20 < feliks> the protagonist is a square who discovers higher mathematical dimensions
21 Jan 2010 09:10:20 < vensa> well you ought to use za'e
21 Jan 2010 09:10:48 < vensa> ahh flatland
21 Jan 2010 09:11:29 < codrus> i was just looking at flatland the other day... weird
21 Jan 2010 09:11:47 < feliks> za'he how? wasn't at that chapter yet :P
21 Jan 2010 09:11:53 < vensa> I just saw a reference to "flatland" in "the big bang theory" the other day... weird :)
21 Jan 2010 09:11:57 < selckiku> i'm very in favor of "za'e" but mostly people don't use it, so i've just gotten used to guessing
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21 Jan 2010 09:12:21 < vensa> yeah... but how on earth am I to guess what a "square-crazyness" is?
21 Jan 2010 09:12:39 < vensa> <makfa> cmavo {za'e} glossing to "nonce-word next" of selma'o BAhE   forethought nonce-word indicator; indicates next word is nonce-creation and may be nonstandard.
21 Jan 2010 09:12:39 < feliks> vensa, you can't, that's the spice
21 Jan 2010 09:12:54 < feliks> who but the author understands the english original anyway?
21 Jan 2010 09:12:56 < vensa> so at least warn me with za'e (placing it before the problematic word)
21 Jan 2010 09:13:16 < vensa> well, Lojban is about clarity.  not crazy square talk :p
21 Jan 2010 09:13:24 < feliks> :)
21 Jan 2010 09:13:35 < vensa> before you can translate it. you need to get into the "flat" head of the author
21 Jan 2010 09:13:56 < feliks> i was wondering, is there a better way to express the observative, as he says "look, how..."
21 Jan 2010 09:14:07 < feliks> i found za'a
21 Jan 2010 09:14:15 < vensa> ko viska?
21 Jan 2010 09:14:25 < feliks> yes, but i found that too obvious
21 Jan 2010 09:14:34 < vensa> za'a means "I observe"
21 Jan 2010 09:14:40 < vensa> tho thats probably what is meant
21 Jan 2010 09:14:47 < feliks> yes i figured that
21 Jan 2010 09:14:47 < vensa> I don't know the context so you'll have to forgive me
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21 Jan 2010 09:15:15 < feliks> yes, he observed the change in his own talk and finds it getting crazy
21 Jan 2010 09:15:36 < vensa> one minor adjustment. I would say "lo kurfenki" not "le"
21 Jan 2010 09:15:54 < vensa> after all, it's not a reference to a specific squared-funkyness
21 Jan 2010 09:15:54 < feliks> ok
21 Jan 2010 09:16:42 < vensa> and to the contrary "LE se cusku be mi" because that IS specific
21 Jan 2010 09:18:23 < feliks> i haven't learned yet how 'be' works, gotta read
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21 Jan 2010 09:19:13 < vensa> go ahead and do read. spoiler: it basically adds additional information to a selbri that is acting as a sumti, using the original place structure of that selbri
21 Jan 2010 09:20:07 < vensa> le zdani be mi => my house, because x2 of zdani is the one which the house is for
21 Jan 2010 09:20:52 < feliks> how's that different from {le mi zdani}?
21 Jan 2010 09:21:16 < vensa> in this case maybe it';s not that different
21 Jan 2010 09:21:21 < timonator> no
21 Jan 2010 09:21:21 < timonator> it is
21 Jan 2010 09:21:28 < timonator> le mi zdani could be "the house named after me"
21 Jan 2010 09:21:31 < vensa> although "le mi zdani" doesn't necessarily mean that the house is "for" you
21 Jan 2010 09:21:38 < vensa> merely that it is associated with you
21 Jan 2010 09:21:39 < timonator> or "the house with my face drawn onto all windows"
21 Jan 2010 09:21:48 < vensa> exactly
21 Jan 2010 09:21:50 < timonator> oh well
21 Jan 2010 09:21:52 < feliks> i thought 'le mi ...' expresses possession
21 Jan 2010 09:21:54 < timonator> no, zdani is only "nest/home"
21 Jan 2010 09:21:56 < vensa> no
21 Jan 2010 09:21:57 < timonator> not "house"
21 Jan 2010 09:21:58 < vensa> not posession
21 Jan 2010 09:22:00 < timonator> that's zdadi'u
21 Jan 2010 09:22:01 < vensa> just mere association
21 Jan 2010 09:22:10 < feliks> ic, ok
21 Jan 2010 09:22:28 < vensa> it could also be a house\nest that you currently happen to be in
21 Jan 2010 09:22:36 < vensa> context needs to decide this
21 Jan 2010 09:23:24 < vensa> perhaps a better example: le klama be la uacingtyn => The going from washington
21 Jan 2010 09:25:08 < feliks> from, not to?
21 Jan 2010 09:25:19 < vensa> sorry
21 Jan 2010 09:25:23 < vensa> to - you're right
21 Jan 2010 09:25:52 < vensa> the walk "from" washington would be: le klama be fi la .uacingtyn
21 Jan 2010 09:26:14 < vensa> {the "going"}
21 Jan 2010 09:26:19 < feliks> got it
21 Jan 2010 09:26:32 < timonator> not the going
21 Jan 2010 09:26:33 < timonator> the goer
21 Jan 2010 09:26:45 < vensa> right
21 Jan 2010 09:28:04 < vensa> obviously, I'm not a lojbo expert. so don't ever take my word for anything :p best you can do is read the lessons, or better yet attend a "class" here in IRC
21 Jan 2010 09:28:17 < feliks> ki'e .a'u - back to the book :)
21 Jan 2010 09:28:25 < vensa> :)
21 Jan 2010 09:29:41 <@xalbo> {le mi zdani} is the same as {le zdani pe mi}, the home associated with me.  It is not necessarily the same as {le zdani be mi}, which is the thing that is a home to me.
21 Jan 2010 09:30:10 <@xalbo> For instance, the rental property I own and rent out to someone else could be the former, but not the latter.
21 Jan 2010 09:31:33 < vensa> yep
21 Jan 2010 09:31:56 < vensa> although "le zdani po mi" as a bit closer :)
21 Jan 2010 09:32:01 < vensa> {is}
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21 Jan 2010 09:32:25 < vensa> but it's just a coincidence of the place structure for zdani
21 Jan 2010 09:32:49 < vensa> selckiku: have you decided on a translation already?
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21 Jan 2010 09:41:26 < vensa> coi la'oi clsn
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21 Jan 2010 11:10:38 < lindar> I'm totally here now.
21 Jan 2010 11:20:14 <@xalbo> We are totally glad.
21 Jan 2010 11:20:16 < kribacr> coi jundi
21 Jan 2010 11:24:08 -!- vensa [i=4d7c290c@gateway/web/freenode/x-zkpvgufcqmnjurfu] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 11:25:05 < vensa> coi rodo
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21 Jan 2010 11:27:03 < vensa> mi ca'o pinxe loi tcati joi loi bicydja
21 Jan 2010 11:28:18 < vensa> si si bicydja
21 Jan 2010 11:28:26 < vensa> .oise'i
21 Jan 2010 11:32:24 <@xalbo> .i lo tcati mi kukte
21 Jan 2010 11:33:05 < vensa> xu do ca ca'o loi tcati vau ji'a
21 Jan 2010 11:33:15 < vensa> su
21 Jan 2010 11:33:19 < vensa> xu do ca ca'o pinxe loi tcati vau ji'a
21 Jan 2010 11:33:44 <@xalbo> na go'i .i ca'o pinxe lo djacu
21 Jan 2010 11:34:12 <@xalbo> .i mi stidi lo nu zo lo zo loi basti
21 Jan 2010 11:34:53 < vensa> we've been through this: I think that loi is a good way to express things that are a mass and have no meaning in a granularity
21 Jan 2010 11:35:01 < vensa> and as u recall, I'm also stubborn :)
21 Jan 2010 11:35:41 < vensa> btw: it's not just me. it's also the L4B
21 Jan 2010 11:36:23 <@xalbo> xorlo trumps L4B
21 Jan 2010 11:36:31 < vensa> I don;'t think so...
21 Jan 2010 11:36:33 < vensa> ha!
21 Jan 2010 11:36:56 <@xalbo> http://lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section:+gadri
21 Jan 2010 11:36:57 < vensa> until one of you guys puts up the effort to replace the OLD material with an updated version that includes xorlo or whatever
21 Jan 2010 11:37:01 < vensa> I'm not buying it
21 Jan 2010 11:37:11 < vensa> sorry.... the link is not gonna persuade me
21 Jan 2010 11:37:23 < vensa> cuz it aint in the Official L4B or CLL
21 Jan 2010 11:38:18 < vensa> (sorry for being such an ass. I'm probably just pissed that I had to just recently learn it the *wrong* way just becuz nobody had the time to update the material)
21 Jan 2010 11:38:42 <@xalbo> Actually, LLG *did* vote that xorlo is part of an Interim Baseline, so it *is* official.
21 Jan 2010 11:39:04 <@xalbo> (Only thing they've gotten to, so if you want to make that complaint about Dot Side or other things, you're right)
21 Jan 2010 11:39:05 < vensa> so why not incorporate it in a new revision of the CLL?
21 Jan 2010 11:39:19 < vensa> why should a newbie have to look between mixed sources to get the correct picture?
21 Jan 2010 11:39:41 < vensa> :) thanks. I'll use that against kribacr :P (dotside)
21 Jan 2010 11:39:44 <@xalbo> Because 1) we're lazy, lazy people, and 2) writing a new CLL is a HUGE undertaking.
21 Jan 2010 11:39:56 < vensa> who said you had to write a new one??
21 Jan 2010 11:40:02 < vensa> just replace one measly chapter
21 Jan 2010 11:40:20 < kribacr> Use what against me?
21 Jan 2010 11:40:20 < vensa> I think it's a shame
21 Jan 2010 11:40:24 < vensa> hehehe
21 Jan 2010 11:40:33 < vensa> that dotside isn;t real
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21 Jan 2010 11:40:51 <@xalbo> Dot Side isn't *official* yet.  Different from being real.
21 Jan 2010 11:41:08 < vensa> :) just having fun... sorry
21 Jan 2010 11:41:14 < kribacr> Well, you can keep on not using it. Just be watchful of those {la}s {lai}s and {doi}s. :)
21 Jan 2010 11:41:31 < vensa> you know, I've been thinking about it...
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21 Jan 2010 11:41:46 < kribacr> I don't see what the big deal is.
21 Jan 2010 11:41:48 < vensa> doesn't dotside forec me to start and end EVERY cmevla with a dot?
21 Jan 2010 11:41:57 < kribacr> Yes.
21 Jan 2010 11:41:59 <@xalbo> .i mi ca pinxe lo djacu gi'e djica lo tcati
21 Jan 2010 11:42:34 < vensa> well, then think how much time dotside will be adding to the entirety of lojban speech conversations
21 Jan 2010 11:42:58 < vensa> also, doesn't it seem unatural to you to pause between "la" and a name?
21 Jan 2010 11:43:07 < vensa> try saying "laxalbo" all at once?
21 Jan 2010 11:43:12 < vensa> sounds much better
21 Jan 2010 11:43:30 < vensa> la.xalbo. sounds restrained and mechanical
21 Jan 2010 11:43:35 < lindar> 1. You're a newb.
21 Jan 2010 11:43:39 < lindar> 2. You're probably saying it wrong.
21 Jan 2010 11:43:39 < vensa> but that's just me (recent) opinion
21 Jan 2010 11:43:44 < lindar> 3. It sounds just fine to me.
21 Jan 2010 11:43:50 < lindar> 4. Hi! Welcome to Lojbanistan!
21 Jan 2010 11:43:59 < vensa> what about the "delay" argument?
21 Jan 2010 11:44:00 < kribacr> And to nitpick, {xalbo} isn't a cmevla, so it wouldn't need dots. :P
21 Jan 2010 11:44:02 < lindar> I'm the mean one around here. =D
21 Jan 2010 11:44:04 <@xalbo> {laxalbo} and {lavensa} are just fine, in fact, but
21 Jan 2010 11:44:29 < vensa> you're right kribacr.. I meant then laxalbos
21 Jan 2010 11:44:31 <@xalbo> the main point is you don't need a pause, just a stop.
21 Jan 2010 11:44:43 < vensa> isn't that the same thing?
21 Jan 2010 11:44:59 < lindar> No?
21 Jan 2010 11:45:00 < Hugglesworth> no
21 Jan 2010 11:45:02 < Hugglesworth> coi
21 Jan 2010 11:45:06 < kribacr> {.}s aren't drawn out pauses, they are stops. Glottal stops.
21 Jan 2010 11:45:31 < lindar> ((Was I this argumentative seven months ago?))
21 Jan 2010 11:45:39 < vensa> well, they're an addition to the speech stream? they jag it up?
21 Jan 2010 11:45:43 < kribacr> coi la *three second pause* lindar *three second pause*
21 Jan 2010 11:45:48 < Hugglesworth> think of the pause you put inbetween "the" and "bear" when you say "look at the bear"
21 Jan 2010 11:46:03 < lindar> Brilliant example!
21 Jan 2010 11:46:05 < vensa> what about it?
21 Jan 2010 11:46:09  * lindar notes to use that.
21 Jan 2010 11:46:10 < Hugglesworth> lindar's the bear
21 Jan 2010 11:46:13 < Hugglesworth> RUN
21 Jan 2010 11:46:28 < lindar> OH SHIT, IT'S A LINDAR! GET IN THE CAR!
21 Jan 2010 11:46:48 < vensa> If I say "the bear" trying to say it as flowing as possible (i.e. one word), am I still making a glottal stop?
21 Jan 2010 11:47:43 < kribacr> As an example, {la .kribacr.}, I can say it as a sort of {lock-REE-bahsh-rr} or {lah KREE-bahsh-rr}, and really neither has a significant speed difference. But one has a glottal stop.
21 Jan 2010 11:47:45 < vensa> doi la xalbo do'u xu lei djacu cu na lenku
21 Jan 2010 11:48:02 <@xalbo> ja'a lenku
21 Jan 2010 11:48:28 < vensa> .uudai
21 Jan 2010 11:49:07 < vensa> well, then apparently a non-linguist like me, who doesn't know the meaning of a glottal stop would have to make a full stop for just-in-case purposes. and therefore it would make my life even harder :)
21 Jan 2010 11:49:25 < lindar> >_<
21 Jan 2010 11:49:36 < kribacr> Bah. I'm hardly a linguist.  But it's how lojban works. You're strawmanning.
21 Jan 2010 11:49:40 <@xalbo> .i mi nelci lo nu pinxe lo curve na ja lenku djacu
21 Jan 2010 11:49:44 < kribacr> "This situation doesn't work because I'm not doing it right!"
21 Jan 2010 11:49:45 < lindar> NO NO NO NEWBIE! {xu} points to the word to the left of it, and stop using {cu} for everything!
21 Jan 2010 11:50:07 < vensa> ki'a curve
21 Jan 2010 11:50:09 < lindar> kribacr, why does everybody use xu and doi incorrectly? ;-;
21 Jan 2010 11:50:21 < kribacr> He's not mine, he's old material.
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21 Jan 2010 11:50:32 < Hugglesworth> lindar: but 'cu' makes everything so much easier
21 Jan 2010 11:50:55 < lindar> Yeah, it makes everything easier when there's only one lo/ku before the selbri... much easier. >_>
21 Jan 2010 11:51:00 < vensa> A. doi la xalbo do'u lei djacu cu na lenku vau xu
21 Jan 2010 11:51:10 < lindar> ku!!!
21 Jan 2010 11:51:13 < vensa> B. I am very PRO-cu
21 Jan 2010 11:51:18 < vensa> I don't see it as laziness
21 Jan 2010 11:51:36 < kribacr> I am pro-{cu} as long as people remember terminators when they are needed.
21 Jan 2010 11:51:36 < vensa> I see it as a way to HELP the listener know that a selbri is coming
21 Jan 2010 11:51:45 <@xalbo> In this case, the {cu} can be elided, but I have nothing against extraneous terminators.
21 Jan 2010 11:51:46 < vensa> me2
21 Jan 2010 11:52:09 < kribacr> I personally don't use it that much, but it can be handy.
21 Jan 2010 11:52:15 < vensa> I find the cu EXTREMELY helpful when deciphering lojban speech
21 Jan 2010 11:52:18 < kribacr> Generally if a single terminator will do the job, I use that instead of {cu}.
21 Jan 2010 11:52:19 < lindar> It's lazy because you could bother to actually terminate the lo instead of saying "WOAH! OKAY! You know... I can't keep track of all these TAGS and bullshit, so I'm just going to use {cu}. Yeah, SORRY...."
21 Jan 2010 11:52:37 < vensa> that's where you're wrong lindar
21 Jan 2010 11:52:41 < vensa> it's not JUST laziness
21 Jan 2010 11:52:46 < vensa> maybe there's a hint of it
21 Jan 2010 11:52:47 < timonator> you just fell for the tarp
21 Jan 2010 11:52:53 < lindar> <-----speaking for seven months
21 Jan 2010 11:52:54 < vensa> but I really think it is a way to emphasize the selbri
21 Jan 2010 11:53:03 < lindar> =D
21 Jan 2010 11:53:59 < vensa> Q: would "xu doi XXX do'u BLA BLA" work well too?
21 Jan 2010 11:54:21 < lindar> I guess I stand alone in this particular opinion, but it doesn't sound helpful, to somebody that's been speaking it for a while (me) it sounds like you're being lazy. It's like driving your car to the street corner to pick up your mail instead of walking.
21 Jan 2010 11:54:31 < lindar> vensa: That's the proper way to say it.
21 Jan 2010 11:54:36 <@xalbo> .i la'a lo nu ze'u lo masti be li ze cu tavla cu rinka lo nu lo moklu cu tcecte sudga
21 Jan 2010 11:54:40 < vensa> thanks
21 Jan 2010 11:54:57 < lindar> {.i doi cmene do'u xu co'e zo'e} means "Is it [cmene] I'm addressing?"
21 Jan 2010 11:54:59 < vensa> lindar: perhaps when I'll be speaking for 7 months I'll feel the same way
21 Jan 2010 11:55:17 < vensa> until then, in a lojban channel I think we should encourage both methods, as long as theyt're gramatically correct
21 Jan 2010 11:55:25 < vensa> there are better issues to rant about :P
21 Jan 2010 11:55:54 < lindar> Like knowing how to correctly use {xu} and all the confusing malgli that people still use?
21 Jan 2010 11:56:12 < vensa> xalbo: how can you put two cu's there?
21 Jan 2010 11:56:52 < vensa> ki'a tcecte
21 Jan 2010 11:57:08 < vensa> lindar: Aye
21 Jan 2010 11:57:33 < lindar> Oh, and once you don't suck at Lojban, you can help me translate things! =D
21 Jan 2010 11:57:33 <@xalbo> .i va'i lo nu ze'u lo masti be li ze lo'o be'o ku cu tavla vau kei ku cu rinka lo nu lo moklu ku cu tcetce sudga vau kei ku vau
21 Jan 2010 11:57:41 < vensa> woopie
21 Jan 2010 11:57:50 <@xalbo> I think that's it with all the terminators, if that helps it make more sense.
21 Jan 2010 11:57:51 < vensa> be aware: it will take quite some time
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21 Jan 2010 11:58:18 <@xalbo> But basically, {tavla} is the selbri of the inner {nu}, then {rinka} is the selbri of the main bridi.
21 Jan 2010 11:59:00  * lindar thinks kribacr should start up a CLL recovery programme. "Okay, so you've learned Lojban from the CLL. That's OKAY. We're here to help you."
21 Jan 2010 11:59:25 < vensa> xalbo: doesn't the first cu close off the nu?
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21 Jan 2010 11:59:55  * vensa thinks kribacr should update the measley chapter that deals with the pre-xorlo syntax
21 Jan 2010 12:00:27  * vensa (or lindar) whichever one of you is going to bug me the most about that
21 Jan 2010 12:00:28 < kribacr> The CLL isn't -that- bad.
21 Jan 2010 12:00:28 <@xalbo> Every NU has to have exactly one selbri contained within it.  {cu} can precede that selbri (iff there is at least one term before it, of course).
21 Jan 2010 12:01:15 < vensa> hmmm
21 Jan 2010 12:01:19 <@xalbo> {cu} only pops enough to get you to a selbri, in this case, {tavla}, since nothing else is the selbri for the bridi inside the NU.
21 Jan 2010 12:01:20 < lindar> Yeah, but there should be some way to correct all those nasty habits that the CLL invariably garners.
21 Jan 2010 12:01:48 < feliks> i understand only .gobldiguk. but getting second thoughts about purchasing the print edition
21 Jan 2010 12:01:51 < vensa> see, the L4B had me thinking that cu always ends a nu construct
21 Jan 2010 12:02:20 < lindar> xalbo: The point that always confused me is this: If {cu} is enough to get you to the selbri, then in {.i lo nu co'e cu co'e} is that valid? Cos to me that looks like it's a sumti by itself.
21 Jan 2010 12:02:48 < kribacr> Yeah, that's valid.
21 Jan 2010 12:02:54 < kribacr> .i lo nu broda cu brode
21 Jan 2010 12:02:55 <@xalbo> {lo nu co'e cu co'e} is {lo nu co'e vau kei ku cu co'e vau}
21 Jan 2010 12:02:55 < kribacr> Yup.
21 Jan 2010 12:03:25 < lindar> Ahhhhhh.... >_>
21 Jan 2010 12:03:42 < vensa> btw: I didn't get the "sugda" joke
21 Jan 2010 12:03:44 < lindar> Awesome.
21 Jan 2010 12:03:50 < vensa> why did u say his mouth is dry?
21 Jan 2010 12:03:59 < vensa> didn't you mean "wet" with derogatory talk?
21 Jan 2010 12:04:31 <@xalbo> "Talking for seven months dries out one's mouth."
21 Jan 2010 12:04:56 < vensa> If you do it 7 months straight I suppose :)
21 Jan 2010 12:04:56 <@xalbo> I should have put a {ru'i} or something in there.
21 Jan 2010 12:05:10 < vensa> that's why we need lojban disambiguity
21 Jan 2010 12:05:27 < vensa> di'i would have helped him
21 Jan 2010 12:05:32 < vensa> right?
21 Jan 2010 12:06:06 < vensa> yeah, the ru'i would have made the pun clearer
21 Jan 2010 12:06:21 <@xalbo> Maybe, although I think {di'i} is literally "regularly" (ie, at regular intervals of time), not just "frequently"
21 Jan 2010 12:06:21 < vensa> but I generally suck at "
21 Jan 2010 12:06:31 < vensa> "getting jokes" esp. in lojban apparently
21 Jan 2010 12:06:41 < lindar> btw: The reason we don't add any of the non-baseline stuff to the books is because they're exactly that, non-baseline.
21 Jan 2010 12:07:03 < vensa> then maybe "ta'e"?
21 Jan 2010 12:07:05 < lindar> Go write definitions and then we'll unfreeze Lojban so we can update those books.
21 Jan 2010 12:07:06 < vensa> what's the diff btw?
21 Jan 2010 12:07:12 < vensa> maybe just ru'inai...
21 Jan 2010 12:07:17 < CodeBlock> coi
21 Jan 2010 12:07:37 < vensa> coi lao'i CodeBlock
21 Jan 2010 12:07:38 <@xalbo> coi la'oi CodeBlock
21 Jan 2010 12:07:41 < vensa> I didn't get you lindar?
21 Jan 2010 12:07:48 < vensa> I thought lojban has been unfrozen since 2005
21 Jan 2010 12:08:08 < lindar> ru'i - doesn't stop, di'i - at regular intervals, ta'e - as a habit
21 Jan 2010 12:08:26 < vensa> what's the diff between "habit" and "regular"? the fixed intervals?
21 Jan 2010 12:09:03 < lindar> ta'e - How you would call 'frequently', di'i - When your g/f takes her birth control.
21 Jan 2010 12:09:25 < vensa> hehe... nice example
21 Jan 2010 12:09:37 < vensa> can u use "ta'e" with "fe'e" for space?
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21 Jan 2010 12:12:56 < lindar> Indeed you can.
21 Jan 2010 12:13:24 < lindar> Check out our number system if you want a real trip. su'o / rau
21 Jan 2010 12:13:50 < lindar> .i coi rau do do'u
21 Jan 2010 12:14:47 < vensa> doi xalbo do'u do na jukpa lo kabri be loi glare tcati fi'o te dunda fe'u vo'a ki'u ma
21 Jan 2010 12:15:30 < vensa> Hello Enough of You...?
21 Jan 2010 12:15:37 < lindar> xD
21 Jan 2010 12:15:58 < vensa> ingenuos
21 Jan 2010 12:16:04 < lindar> A pun on the usual phrase {coi rodo}
21 Jan 2010 12:16:06 <@xalbo> lo za'i lazni ku li'a dai
21 Jan 2010 12:16:10 < vensa> :)
21 Jan 2010 12:16:55 <@xalbo> .i coi du'e da noi se besna mo'a de
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21 Jan 2010 12:17:05 < vensa> what's "li'a dai" supposed to mean?
21 Jan 2010 12:17:26 < vensa> isn;t it supposed to be objectively clear to me, before you can empathize with that?
21 Jan 2010 12:17:30 <@xalbo> "of course" (as is[/should have been] obvious to you)
21 Jan 2010 12:18:17 < lindar> .i ta'o ki'u ma do jukpa lo kabri
21 Jan 2010 12:18:26 < kribacr> lindar stole {coi rau do} from me!
21 Jan 2010 12:18:33 < lindar> =D
21 Jan 2010 12:18:37 < lindar> I know! It's just so cute!
21 Jan 2010 12:19:01 < kribacr> I'm filling my politeness quota.
21 Jan 2010 12:20:14 < lindar> xD
21 Jan 2010 12:20:45 < feliks> does anyone know what's the quota of women among lojbanists?
21 Jan 2010 12:20:48 < vensa> kribacr: my mistake about preparing the cup.... hmm.. lets fix
21 Jan 2010 12:20:55 < lindar> Quota?
21 Jan 2010 12:20:56 < vensa> 0 to 1 million
21 Jan 2010 12:21:01 < feliks> percentage
21 Jan 2010 12:21:04 < vensa> llook around you!
21 Jan 2010 12:21:20 < lindar> At least one, a tranny, and a crossdresser. That's the Lojban quota, and we meet it quite well.
21 Jan 2010 12:21:33 < feliks> :)
21 Jan 2010 12:21:43 < vensa> kribacr: r u sure I can't cook a cuo?
21 Jan 2010 12:21:46 < vensa> {cup}
21 Jan 2010 12:22:01 < kribacr> What are you talking about?
21 Jan 2010 12:22:04 < lindar> You were quite explicit.
21 Jan 2010 12:22:11 < vensa> u said:
21 Jan 2010 12:22:16 < lindar> You said something about cooking a cup, which contained tea.
21 Jan 2010 12:22:23 < vensa> oh sorry
21 Jan 2010 12:22:27 < vensa> it was lindar who said it
21 Jan 2010 12:22:35 < vensa> lindar: can I NOT cook a cup?>
21 Jan 2010 12:22:49 < vensa> jukpa is "prepare"
21 Jan 2010 12:22:56 < vensa> can I not "prepare" a cup of tea?
21 Jan 2010 12:23:11 < vensa> or do I have to '"prepare" tea in a cup?
21 Jan 2010 12:23:15 < lindar>  gismu {jukpa} glossing to "cook" with rafsi -jup-   x1 cooks/prepares food-for-eating x2 by recipe/method x3 (process).   Notes: Cook with heat (= {glajukpa}, {glaterjukpa}), bake (= {tokyjukpa}); fry (= {rasyjukpa}).  See also {cupra}, {bredi}.
21 Jan 2010 12:23:28 < vensa> so x2 has to be edible
21 Jan 2010 12:23:29 < lindar> jukpa is cook.
21 Jan 2010 12:23:39 < vensa> or prepares!@
21 Jan 2010 12:23:52 < vensa> but x2 probably has to be edible
21 Jan 2010 12:23:56 < lindar> You can bregau a cup of tea.
21 Jan 2010 12:24:18 < vensa> ehh
21 Jan 2010 12:24:23 < vensa> i want to jukpa
21 Jan 2010 12:24:25 < lindar> .i mi bregau lo kabri be lo tcati <----- YOI DEGOZAIMASU
21 Jan 2010 12:24:28 < vensa> jukpa - prepare food
21 Jan 2010 12:24:43 < vensa> xalbo: can I jukpa a cup of tea?
21 Jan 2010 12:24:49 < lindar> If you want to jukpa (boil in a pot, probably), then you jukpa the tcati.
21 Jan 2010 12:25:13 < vensa> I need to boil it... not the cup obviously.. just the water
21 Jan 2010 12:25:17 <@xalbo> Do you intend to eat or drink the cup?
21 Jan 2010 12:25:21 < lindar> >_< You were quite explicit when you said this. {.i jukpa lo kabri be lo tcati} is a cup which contains tea, which means that you actually cook the cup.
21 Jan 2010 12:25:22 < vensa> no
21 Jan 2010 12:25:30 < vensa> does it?
21 Jan 2010 12:25:34 < vensa> mean that?
21 Jan 2010 12:25:36 < lindar> That is what we call MALGLICO.
21 Jan 2010 12:25:45 < lindar> That's using Anglicism in Lojban.
21 Jan 2010 12:26:04 < lindar> "A cup of tea." is something you'd say in English. In Lojban we just say "A tea." or "Some tea.".
21 Jan 2010 12:26:18 < vensa> what if I want to be specific that it's just one cupo?
21 Jan 2010 12:26:42 < lindar> Then you'd probably use a NOI clause or use some kind of measurement.
21 Jan 2010 12:26:57 < vensa> ochh... sometimes lojban can be so helpful
21 Jan 2010 12:27:03 < vensa> yet other times it's such a burden
21 Jan 2010 12:27:06 < vensa> life sucks
21 Jan 2010 12:27:07 <@xalbo> {lo se kabri tcati} could do, or something more verbose ({lo tcati be se la'u lo kabri}, maybe)
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21 Jan 2010 12:27:22 < timonator> why even specify?
21 Jan 2010 12:27:28 < vensa> thanks, xalbo: that's a simple solution
21 Jan 2010 12:27:36 < timonator> you think we'd interpret as you cooking a keg of tea?
21 Jan 2010 12:27:52 <@xalbo> but I agree with Timo, the quantity probably doesn't matter.
21 Jan 2010 12:28:40 < vensa> one time I didn;t specify and then ppl starting asking irrelevant questions and raising eyebrows
21 Jan 2010 12:28:45 < lindar> Yeah, you'll quickly find that Lojban has kind of its own cultural interpretations of things (cultural neutrality failed, IMO). We have particular ways of saying things which just make sense in Lojban.
21 Jan 2010 12:29:03 < lindar> vensa: Was this when speaking Lojban?
21 Jan 2010 12:29:29 < vensa> that sucks, lindar. I think the spoken lojban of one who practices it alone should be the same as one who practiced in a community
21 Jan 2010 12:29:29 < lindar> Cos if it was with your friends that this happened, then they're just being dicks.
21 Jan 2010 12:29:44 < vensa> after all,l diff coimunities can develop diff jargons
21 Jan 2010 12:29:55 < lindar> vensa: It's not really that. The problem is that people that learn on their own are oft not accused of being malgli.
21 Jan 2010 12:29:56 < vensa> lindar: yes. when speaking lojban
21 Jan 2010 12:29:59 < vensa> here
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21 Jan 2010 12:30:25 < vensa> lindar: that's a diff prob - the malglico. here i agree
21 Jan 2010 12:30:51 < vensa> but I'm just against determining what the "proper way" to say "good morning" should be or stuff like that
21 Jan 2010 12:31:02 < vensa> developing idioms
21 Jan 2010 12:31:37 < lindar> A group of three people that learn on their own are, in fact, probably going to be -very- malgli about things. In here, this is the actual developing and growing heart of the Lojban community (well, and the mailing list), so I think we're the most lojbo due to the fact that we have so many oldbies here and we scream malgli at pretty much everything. =P
21 Jan 2010 12:32:03 < lindar> Hell, there are at least three or four dialects within this central community.
21 Jan 2010 12:32:06 < vensa> again. malgli is something else
21 Jan 2010 12:32:14 < vensa> there should be more
21 Jan 2010 12:32:24 < vensa> we should promote diversity
21 Jan 2010 12:32:36 < vensa> and not scream at ppl to stop using "cu" for example :)
21 Jan 2010 12:32:45 < lindar> Unfortunately we don't have that many people that are in here speaking it, and people will usually follow one of the dialects.
21 Jan 2010 12:32:48 < vensa> as long as it's gendra, let them say it
21 Jan 2010 12:32:53 < lindar> {cu} is lazy. =P
21 Jan 2010 12:32:59 < vensa> u r lazy :P
21 Jan 2010 12:33:06 < feliks> vensa maybe they meant "shoo" :P
21 Jan 2010 12:33:12 < vensa> hehehe
21 Jan 2010 12:33:41 < djanatyn-fonxa> ri
21 Jan 2010 12:34:02 < lindar> That's the problem. We can see your dialect, and it's very much an "I LEARNED ON MY OWN!!" dialect, which means that we're going to correct you about everything.
21 Jan 2010 12:34:08 < lindar> coi djan
21 Jan 2010 12:34:09 < vensa> tell them how you interpreted their lojban? yes. find out that they meant something totally diff and tell them how you would phrase that - ok. but don't scream for no apparent reason :)
21 Jan 2010 12:34:24 < lindar> Indeed.
21 Jan 2010 12:34:58 < lindar> I said there are probably four main dialects, but there are all sorts of little side-accents and things. djanatyn has his own dialect that nobody else speaks because nobody can understand him half the time.
21 Jan 2010 12:35:30 < vensa> ma djicu lonu tu'a la mambyl
21 Jan 2010 12:35:49 < vensa> {djica}
21 Jan 2010 12:35:58 < lindar> {soi ROdo . . . mi krsi lou du'u mi djecy loi nanby} <-----djan
21 Jan 2010 12:35:59 < feliks> i'm having a similar problem in esperanto which i also learned on my own. i keep making up words that are correct to the rules and they keep shouting at me because they're not popular. can be hard to stink against establishment :P
21 Jan 2010 12:36:03 < vensa> {without the lonu}
21 Jan 2010 12:36:28 < vensa> don;'t give up feliks!
21 Jan 2010 12:36:33 < vensa> stand up for what u belive in!
21 Jan 2010 12:36:41 < lindar> xD
21 Jan 2010 12:36:49 < vensa> they can't hurt you from beyond the comp :)
21 Jan 2010 12:37:03 < lindar> Eo is funny. Any time I speak Eo (I only know a VERY little bit) they can tell right away that I speak Lojban.
21 Jan 2010 12:37:05 < feliks> no worries i can be stubborner than a goat
21 Jan 2010 12:37:18 < vensa> good
21 Jan 2010 12:37:35 < vensa> I thought "mule" was the proper correlation
21 Jan 2010 12:37:38 < lindar> It's cos I use words like {belon} and {patras}.
21 Jan 2010 12:38:10 < feliks> dunno i'm translating literally from german here - quite as creative in english :)
21 Jan 2010 12:38:18 < lindar> In their little natlanger minds they have no idea what the hell a {belon} is. =P
21 Jan 2010 12:38:33 <@xalbo> *{mi djica lonu tu'a la mambyl} isn't gendra; you want to drop the {lonu} part.
21 Jan 2010 12:38:44 < vensa> xiryxasli <= mule
21 Jan 2010 12:39:00 < vensa> xalbo: I said that
21 Jan 2010 12:39:11 < vensa> u're not paying attention. I corrected myself :)
21 Jan 2010 12:39:12 < vensa> but htnkas
21 Jan 2010 12:39:14 < vensa> thanks
21 Jan 2010 12:39:16 < lindar> {tu'a lo co'e ku} = {lo su'u lo co'e ku co'e vau kei ku}
21 Jan 2010 12:39:30 <@xalbo> Sorry, I was catching up on backscroll
21 Jan 2010 12:39:36 < vensa> can it be that there is no word for mule yet?
21 Jan 2010 12:39:55 < vensa> would you say it is a horse-kind-of-donkey or a donkey-kind-of-horse?
21 Jan 2010 12:40:16 < lindar>  {xasli} glossing to "donkey"   x1 is a donkey/jackass of species/breed x2
21 Jan 2010 12:40:16 < vensa> who fucks who in that scenario?
21 Jan 2010 12:40:25 < feliks> xiryxasli - just tried to pronounce that, sounds like a swiss tongue breaker :)
21 Jan 2010 12:40:31 < lindar> I don't know because we don't have an agentive "fuck".
21 Jan 2010 12:40:35 <@xalbo> I think pig is the right standard for stubbornness, but mainly because I like saying {xarju xarnu}.
21 Jan 2010 12:40:44 < vensa> :)
21 Jan 2010 12:40:57 < vensa> in hebrew the standard is mule
21 Jan 2010 12:41:13 < vensa> is that a male horse fucking a female donkey or the other way around?
21 Jan 2010 12:41:28 < lindar> I'm going to have to go with {xirxasli} because xasli doesn't have a three-letter rafsi.
21 Jan 2010 12:41:41 <@xalbo> Animal husbandry isn't my kink, so I'll just plead ignorance on this one.
21 Jan 2010 12:41:49 < lindar> ...and you're being rather malgli again.
21 Jan 2010 12:41:53 < vensa> lindar: that shouldnt be the only factor
21 Jan 2010 12:41:53 < feliks> pighead? xarju stedu
21 Jan 2010 12:42:53 < feliks> no rear end rafsi for stedu
21 Jan 2010 12:42:54 < lindar> Being pig-headed is like being lecherous.
21 Jan 2010 12:43:10 < vensa> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_kind_of_animal_is_stubborn
21 Jan 2010 12:43:11 < lindar> However, that's -also- malgli.
21 Jan 2010 12:43:13 < vensa> I rest my case
21 Jan 2010 12:43:40 < lindar> Come up with a unique phrase in Lojban, but don't start using ones from Anglo culture.
21 Jan 2010 12:43:51 < feliks> that's right nobody who isn't from the same cultural background will understand that
21 Jan 2010 12:44:25 < vensa> .ie
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21 Jan 2010 12:45:18 < lindar> .i do sofybakni bebna
21 Jan 2010 12:45:19 < lindar> xD
21 Jan 2010 12:45:40 < vensa> lindar: what's an "agentive" fuck?
21 Jan 2010 12:45:58 < lindar> .I SOFYBAKNI BALONU MI UhIUhIUhI
21 Jan 2010 12:46:01 < lindar> >_>
21 Jan 2010 12:46:03 < lindar> agentive
21 Jan 2010 12:46:08 < vensa> meaning?
21 Jan 2010 12:46:27 < vensa> my english is not that good either :)
21 Jan 2010 12:46:31 < lindar> Like... "Sally fucks Jim" vs. "Jim fucks Sally" vs. "Sally and Jim fuck."
21 Jan 2010 12:46:41 < feliks> a soviet ox boob? .oiro'e
21 Jan 2010 12:46:56 < vensa> oh... isn't that what "mount" is for? cpanygle
21 Jan 2010 12:47:15 < lindar> feliks, it's from lojban's pangram.
21 Jan 2010 12:47:37 < djanatyn-fonxa> coi
21 Jan 2010 12:47:42 < vensa> coi djan
21 Jan 2010 12:47:48 < feliks> oic, i was actually looking for a pangram already
21 Jan 2010 12:47:53 < lindar> English has "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog." and we have {.o'i mu xagji sofybakni cu zvati le purdi}.
21 Jan 2010 12:48:30 < feliks> cool :)
21 Jan 2010 12:49:24 < vensa> would "geltygau" be a good candidate for an agentive "fuck"?
21 Jan 2010 12:49:28 < vensa> {gletygau}
21 Jan 2010 12:51:05 < vensa> or better yet: define gletu as "x1 is the agent". if someone wants to make a symmetrical statement they'll use "soi vo'a"
21 Jan 2010 12:51:34 < vensa> doesn't anyone have any thoughts on this extremely interesting subject?
21 Jan 2010 12:52:26 < feliks> plenty but the left brain isn't working so well in this region
21 Jan 2010 12:52:49 < vensa> only the "middle brain": works here3.. ;)
21 Jan 2010 12:53:16 < vensa> "lower middle"...
21 Jan 2010 12:55:20 < lindar> vensa: That's unlojbanic. =P
21 Jan 2010 12:55:28 < vensa> what is?
21 Jan 2010 12:55:33 < feliks> fucking?
21 Jan 2010 12:55:41 -!- durka42 [n=Adium@d252.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 12:55:43 < vensa> hehehe
21 Jan 2010 12:55:46 < lindar> In fact, some want to redefine gletu as {x1 (mass) copulates.}
21 Jan 2010 12:56:02 < lindar> The reason being that people use x1 as agentive even though it isn't.
21 Jan 2010 12:56:02 < vensa> yeah. I guess it is something that you do "together"
21 Jan 2010 12:56:15 < vensa> unless masturbating is your thing
21 Jan 2010 12:56:26 < lindar> It's also "discriminatory" to poly houses.
21 Jan 2010 12:56:30 < feliks> just me myself and i :P
21 Jan 2010 12:56:38 < vensa> what's "poly houses"?
21 Jan 2010 12:56:45 < LogicalDash> nonmonogamous
21 Jan 2010 12:56:50 -!- durka42 [n=Adium@d252.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
21 Jan 2010 12:57:00 < djanatyn-fonxa> hey! lindar!
21 Jan 2010 12:57:00 < vensa> oh
21 Jan 2010 12:57:07 < djanatyn-fonxa> coi lindar
21 Jan 2010 12:57:09 < lindar> Hey! djan!
21 Jan 2010 12:57:13 < lindar> coi djan
21 Jan 2010 12:57:19 < vensa> coi djan (for the 5th time)
21 Jan 2010 12:57:22  * djanatyn-fonxa is going to teh excellent therapist
21 Jan 2010 12:57:26 < djanatyn-fonxa> ?
21 Jan 2010 12:57:32 < djanatyn-fonxa> the 5th tome?
21 Jan 2010 12:57:44 < lindar> Therapist, huh? ki'u ma
21 Jan 2010 12:57:57 < djanatyn-fonxa> ...I'm crazy
21 Jan 2010 12:58:03 < djanatyn-fonxa> I always go.
21 Jan 2010 12:58:05 < lindar> Fun.
21 Jan 2010 12:58:26 < vensa> u keep "coi"ing in and out
21 Jan 2010 12:58:27 < djanatyn-fonxa> It really is. She's extremely kind.
21 Jan 2010 12:58:41 < djanatyn-fonxa> that's because I access IRC all daya
21 Jan 2010 12:58:45 < djanatyn-fonxa> :D
21 Jan 2010 12:59:06 < feliks> o that kind of therapist, we just had a topic to that tune
21 Jan 2010 12:59:10 < djanatyn-fonxa> anyway. co'o
21 Jan 2010 12:59:15 < vensa> (while being on the fonxa nod not paying attention to other ppl's coi's
21 Jan 2010 12:59:20  * djanatyn-fonxa is going INSIDE
21 Jan 2010 12:59:27 < vensa> hehehe, feliks
21 Jan 2010 12:59:28 -!- Darxus [n=darxus@panic.chaosreigns.com] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 12:59:35 < vensa> he's only 14
21 Jan 2010 12:59:38  * djanatyn-fonxa is using IRC on teh fonxa
21 Jan 2010 12:59:39 < vensa> or something like that
21 Jan 2010 12:59:39 < feliks> oops
21 Jan 2010 12:59:47 < vensa> ohhhhh djan
21 Jan 2010 12:59:49 < djanatyn-fonxa> WAIT WHAT
21 Jan 2010 12:59:53 < vensa> hehehe
21 Jan 2010 12:59:54 < djanatyn-fonxa> ONLY 14
21 Jan 2010 13:00:01  * djanatyn-fonxa tackles
21 Jan 2010 13:00:04 < djanatyn-fonxa> DONRI HELP
21 Jan 2010 13:00:06 < vensa> how old r u then?
21 Jan 2010 13:00:10 < djanatyn-fonxa> LINDAR BITE HIM
21 Jan 2010 13:00:13 < djanatyn-fonxa> 14.
21 Jan 2010 13:00:16 < vensa> so?
21 Jan 2010 13:00:19 < djanatyn-fonxa> not "only 14".
21 Jan 2010 13:00:28 < vensa> you're "only" 14 in the context we were talking about
21 Jan 2010 13:00:29 < donri> wha?
21 Jan 2010 13:00:38 < vensa> it's 18+
21 Jan 2010 13:00:46 < vensa> rated-r
21 Jan 2010 13:01:01 < lindar> xD
21 Jan 2010 13:01:03 < feliks> 21 in some states
21 Jan 2010 13:01:08 < vensa> hehehe
21 Jan 2010 13:01:09 < donri> vensa, that's censorship. please die in a fire.
21 Jan 2010 13:01:13 < lindar> djan is quite mature for his age.
21 Jan 2010 13:01:23 < vensa> donri: that's rated-r talk right there
21 Jan 2010 13:01:26 < vensa> :P
21 Jan 2010 13:01:27 < lindar> We can talk about (most) things in front of him.
21 Jan 2010 13:01:35 < donri> lets discuss his penis.
21 Jan 2010 13:01:36 < lindar> djan: People have SEX.
21 Jan 2010 13:01:41 < lindar> donri: >_>
21 Jan 2010 13:01:42 < djanatyn-fonxa> yeaaah.
21 Jan 2010 13:01:46 < donri> ko tavla fi le pinji be le citno je melbi
21 Jan 2010 13:01:47 < lindar> .i'enai
21 Jan 2010 13:02:05 < djanatyn-fonxa> vensa: I'm not...normal.
21 Jan 2010 13:02:12 < lindar> .i za'a la donri ku xalbebna
21 Jan 2010 13:02:13 < donri> abnormally hawt.
21 Jan 2010 13:02:27 -!- Darxus [n=darxus@panic.chaosreigns.com] has left #lojban []
21 Jan 2010 13:03:07 < donri> mi pinxe papo'o kabri belo birje doi lindar
21 Jan 2010 13:03:26 < vensa> doi la donri do'u do mitpavycinglepre vau xu
21 Jan 2010 13:03:28 < djanatyn-fonxa> I don't mean to brag, but I am *somewhat* mature.
21 Jan 2010 13:03:41 < djanatyn-fonxa> I'm very foolish and immature, but...
21 Jan 2010 13:03:43 < lindar> >_>
21 Jan 2010 13:03:57 < feliks> i want such a therapist, too
21 Jan 2010 13:04:08 < donri> mi nanlygle sa'u
21 Jan 2010 13:04:14  * lindar dislikes "mitpavycinglepre" and encourages people to use "nakcinse" and "fetcinse" in light of a more culturally and sexually enlightened culture.
21 Jan 2010 13:04:25 < djanatyn-fonxa> You can at least talk about anything near me. Don't worry about a subject matter being OH NOES BAD FOR DJAN
21 Jan 2010 13:04:41 < vensa> lindar: don't change me. change jbovlaste
21 Jan 2010 13:05:13 < lindar> .i mi ta'e go'i
21 Jan 2010 13:05:30 < Twey> Unless djanatyn's parents are in attendance
21 Jan 2010 13:05:33 < donri> mi cinse filoka vlile gletu lo'e nanla sa'e
21 Jan 2010 13:07:00 < vensa> lindar: mitpavycinglepre expresses both  gay and lesbian in the same word
21 Jan 2010 13:07:31 < donri> yea. crappy concept.
21 Jan 2010 13:07:34 < lindar> Yes, and what about transsexual people? What about gender-neutral or third-gender people? What about pansexuals?
21 Jan 2010 13:07:50 < vensa> donri: you like young boys?
21 Jan 2010 13:08:00 < donri> define young
21 Jan 2010 13:08:02 < vensa> what about them?
21 Jan 2010 13:08:03 < donri> i like adolescent males.
21 Jan 2010 13:08:11 < vensa> nanla is preteen, no?
21 Jan 2010 13:08:17 < lindar> >_> SHARING TIME IS OVER DONRI KTHXBAI
21 Jan 2010 13:08:20 < donri> nanla is immature by standard X
21 Jan 2010 13:08:33 < lindar> HE OBVIOUSLY MEANT NANBA
21 Jan 2010 13:08:38 < lindar> WE KNOW YOU LIKE BREAD DONRI
21 Jan 2010 13:08:40 < donri> <3
21 Jan 2010 13:08:49 < vensa> :)
21 Jan 2010 13:08:56 < lindar> LET'S CHANGE THE TOPIC NOW.
21 Jan 2010 13:09:00 < vensa> djanatyn - shut your ears
21 Jan 2010 13:09:03 < vensa> emmm - eyes
21 Jan 2010 13:09:09 < donri> DONRI LIKES TO FUCK BOYS DOI LINDAR DOI LINDAR
21 Jan 2010 13:09:28 < donri> vensa, eh, djanatyn is blind, he's using speech synthesis.
21 Jan 2010 13:09:44 < kribacr> lindar: A more culturally and sexually enlightened culture probably wouldn't care who fucks what. :)
21 Jan 2010 13:09:55 < lindar> xD
21 Jan 2010 13:09:59 < feliks> did you say WHAT?
21 Jan 2010 13:10:02 < donri> i care who fucks what. i care if the fuckee wants it or not.
21 Jan 2010 13:10:05 < lindar> Yes, unless it's goats. We frown upon that in Lojbanistan.
21 Jan 2010 13:10:18 < vensa> but not mules
21 Jan 2010 13:10:24 < vensa> that's acceptable
21 Jan 2010 13:10:45 < donri> lindar, frown? we encourage it! ko gletu so'i cinmle xasli i'e sai
21 Jan 2010 13:10:46 < lindar> .I LIhA GOhI ZOhO
21 Jan 2010 13:11:08 < vensa> so. it's really cold outside, right?
21 Jan 2010 13:11:15 < lindar> .I KO NA TAVLA DOI LA DONRI
21 Jan 2010 13:11:19 < feliks> why, got relations with mustachistan? http://www.freewebs.com/mustachistan/
21 Jan 2010 13:11:23 < vensa> xu lenku vi le do selzvati
21 Jan 2010 13:11:28 < kribacr> Stop with the caps lock, it's fucking stupid.
21 Jan 2010 13:11:40 < donri> MI NA TAVLA I MI KRIXA I DO KRIXA I KRIXA TEMCI SEI SIMSA BELA CMACIS TAVLA U'I SAI
21 Jan 2010 13:11:49 < vensa> lindar: r u emphasizing every syllable?
21 Jan 2010 13:11:57 < kribacr> feliks: We plan on taking over Sri Lanka and using that as Lojbanistan.
21 Jan 2010 13:12:11 < kribacr> Our national flag has a basket of ribbons on it.
21 Jan 2010 13:12:26 < kribacr> .i zo srilanka lujvo
21 Jan 2010 13:12:28 < feliks> good idea, at least there it's not as frickin cold
21 Jan 2010 13:12:35 < donri> i suggest papa new guinea
21 Jan 2010 13:12:40 < donri> i want to live with the etoro tribe
21 Jan 2010 13:12:41 < lindar> >_>
21 Jan 2010 13:12:48 < kribacr> {srilanka}!
21 Jan 2010 13:13:06  * lindar would like to point out, yet again, that Sri Lanka is the country that invented the suicide bomb vest.
21 Jan 2010 13:13:18 < donri> that lujvo almost could make sense too
21 Jan 2010 13:14:26 < djanatyn-fonxa> lets go to...NORWAY
21 Jan 2010 13:14:31 < vensa> ma djica tu'a la mambyl
21 Jan 2010 13:14:33 < djanatyn-fonxa> Or some remote island.
21 Jan 2010 13:14:38 < djanatyn-fonxa> mi djica
21 Jan 2010 13:14:42 < vensa> ui
21 Jan 2010 13:15:00 < djanatyn-fonxa> ...aww.
21 Jan 2010 13:15:09 < djanatyn-fonxa> my laptop battery is dead.
21 Jan 2010 13:15:24 < Twey> djica je-nai kakne
21 Jan 2010 13:15:58 < vensa> .uinai
21 Jan 2010 13:16:11 < vensa> ki'u ma doi la'oi Twey
21 Jan 2010 13:16:22 < lindar> >_>
21 Jan 2010 13:16:25 < lindar> Norway?
21 Jan 2010 13:16:33 < vensa> darn... I can't seem to be able to connect anyway... Y is that?
21 Jan 2010 13:16:42 < lindar> It's cold in Norway. Really cold.
21 Jan 2010 13:16:53 < lindar> Like you can't go outside in the summer without two sweaters.
21 Jan 2010 13:16:58 < vensa> Isn't there some kind of uninhabited island we could take over?
21 Jan 2010 13:17:00 < djanatyn-fonxa> My first cultural experience was with Norway.
21 Jan 2010 13:17:08 < vensa> I mean: there's not that much of us anyway
21 Jan 2010 13:17:16 < djanatyn-fonxa> vensa: Yes. Are you willing to *live* there?
21 Jan 2010 13:17:28 < djanatyn-fonxa> We're not Esperantoists.
21 Jan 2010 13:17:28 < vensa> well, without women, we would probably all perish anyway
21 Jan 2010 13:17:36 < vensa> better stay mixed with the rest of the world
21 Jan 2010 13:17:58 < djanatyn-fonxa> We have Nora! And ti'ocpi! and...umm...nora!
21 Jan 2010 13:18:05 < vensa> djanL I could be. If they has proper fast internet connection
21 Jan 2010 13:18:08 < djanatyn-fonxa> Although some women are claimed.
21 Jan 2010 13:18:34 < vensa> djan: r u able to connect?
21 Jan 2010 13:18:49 < djanatyn-fonxa> We'll have to make the other females contribute their bodies to the jbo cause.
21 Jan 2010 13:18:51 < vensa> what do I do if it keeps reconnecting and time outing?
21 Jan 2010 13:18:52 < feliks> getting women into lojbanistan is a tough one. it's LOGIC
21 Jan 2010 13:18:56 < djanatyn-fonxa> vensa: ...what?
21 Jan 2010 13:19:08 < vensa> the mumble
21 Jan 2010 13:19:27 < vensa> we'll have to hypnotize them with our intricate tense system
21 Jan 2010 13:19:33 < djanatyn-fonxa> I don't currently have a working computer.
21 Jan 2010 13:19:43 < vensa> oh
21 Jan 2010 13:19:49 < djanatyn-fonxa> I'm using a crappy java phone.
21 Jan 2010 13:19:55 < vensa> right
21 Jan 2010 13:19:59 < lindar> Oh geez djan, I'm not good enough to at least bring the female count up by a half?
21 Jan 2010 13:20:15 < djanatyn-fonxa> okay. linda counts.
21 Jan 2010 13:20:21  * djanatyn-fonxa forgot!
21 Jan 2010 13:20:28 < vensa> If all females were like you Id committ suicide lindar. no offense
21 Jan 2010 13:20:33 < djanatyn-fonxa> We can grab...umm...
21 Jan 2010 13:20:44 < djanatyn-fonxa> vensa: ...why?
21 Jan 2010 13:20:44 < timonator> haha
21 Jan 2010 13:20:57 < vensa> why????
21 Jan 2010 13:21:01 < vensa> aint it obvious
21 Jan 2010 13:21:09 < lindar> vensa: If all females were like me they'd have penises.
21 Jan 2010 13:21:29 < djanatyn-fonxa> vensa: ...no, it's not.
21 Jan 2010 13:21:38 < vensa> and be extremely violently-tongued
21 Jan 2010 13:21:38 < djanatyn-fonxa> Is it because lindar has no pussy?
21 Jan 2010 13:21:40 < lindar> ...and that would be AWESOME.
21 Jan 2010 13:21:53 < djanatyn-fonxa> oh. lindar is not violently tongued.
21 Jan 2010 13:21:59 < djanatyn-fonxa> at least not to me.
21 Jan 2010 13:22:06 < vensa> awesome. except you'd all perish after a century
21 Jan 2010 13:22:09 < lindar> I'm actually quite nice once you get to know me. =D
21 Jan 2010 13:22:18 < djanatyn-fonxa> Yeah. She is.
21 Jan 2010 13:22:34 < vensa> still. I prefer my women more innocent
21 Jan 2010 13:22:35 < lindar> s/she/fo'e/
21 Jan 2010 13:23:40 < djanatyn-fonxa> fe'o is cool!
21 Jan 2010 13:24:06 < vensa> je'e fe'o
21 Jan 2010 13:24:10 < lindar> I'm totally awesome. I'm just mean because you haven't been around long enough. Part of becoming a Lojbanist is being creeped out by donri and getting yelled at by me.
21 Jan 2010 13:24:34 < vensa> dont get me wrong. it IS great.
21 Jan 2010 13:24:40 < vensa> but I think I could do without it :P
21 Jan 2010 13:24:42 < feliks> i need to go and talk to one of those now - been nice boys, ki'e co'o
21 Jan 2010 13:24:52 < vensa> co'o feliks
21 Jan 2010 13:24:55 < djanatyn-fonxa> fe'o sounds kind of like...
21 Jan 2010 13:24:56 < vensa> ko se'ixru
21 Jan 2010 13:25:01 < lindar> co'o ko pluka co'e
21 Jan 2010 13:25:09 -!- feliks [n=xyz@f050231160.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit []
21 Jan 2010 13:25:13 < djanatyn-fonxa> *cough* fa'o *scream*
21 Jan 2010 13:25:18 < lindar> O_______O
21 Jan 2010 13:25:25  * lindar is sucked into a vortex of susu.
21 Jan 2010 13:25:41 -!- tomoj [n=user@cpe-70-112-74-98.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 13:25:55 < lindar> TOMOJ RUN! DJAN SAID THE FORBIDDEN WORD!
21 Jan 2010 13:26:02  * lindar is sucked into the vortex.
21 Jan 2010 13:26:05 -!- lindar [n=lindarth@rrcs-173-196-20-139.west.biz.rr.com] has left #lojban ["Feh."]
21 Jan 2010 13:26:11 -!- acrid [n=mckay@204.126.146.202] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 13:26:14 < vensa> did I miss somethin?
21 Jan 2010 13:26:21 < djanatyn-fonxa> AAAAAAHHHH
21 Jan 2010 13:26:23 < vensa> fa'o?
21 Jan 2010 13:26:32 < djanatyn-fonxa> AAAAAAHHHH NO MORE NO MORE
21 Jan 2010 13:26:40 < vensa> what what?
21 Jan 2010 13:26:45 < vensa> whats wrong with FA'O?
21 Jan 2010 13:26:46 < djanatyn-fonxa> LOOK UP...THE DEFINITION...*cough*
21 Jan 2010 13:26:47 < djanatyn-fonxa> *die*
21 Jan 2010 13:26:54 -!- djanatyn-fonxa is now known as djanatyn-morsi
21 Jan 2010 13:27:03 < vensa> <makfa> cmavo {fa'o} glossing to "end of text" of selma'o FAhO   unconditional end of text; outside regular grammar; used for computer input.
21 Jan 2010 13:27:06 -!- lindar [n=lindarth@rrcs-173-196-20-139.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 13:27:07 < djanatyn-morsi> unnnnnhhhhh...
21 Jan 2010 13:27:07 < vensa> lol
21 Jan 2010 13:27:12 < lindar> OMG! I MADE IT OUT!
21 Jan 2010 13:27:12 < vensa> <makfa> cmavo {fa'o} glossing to "end of text" of selma'o FAhO   unconditional end of text; outside regular grammar; used for computer input.
21 Jan 2010 13:27:14 < vensa> <makfa> cmavo {fa'o} glossing to "end of text" of selma'o FAhO   unconditional end of text; outside regular grammar; used for computer input.
21 Jan 2010 13:27:21 < vensa> die die die
21 Jan 2010 13:27:23 < djanatyn-morsi> UNNNNNHHHHH
21 Jan 2010 13:27:24 < lindar> It was horrible!
21 Jan 2010 13:27:32  * djanatyn-morsi is zombie-djan
21 Jan 2010 13:27:36 < lindar> I saw JCB on the other side!
21 Jan 2010 13:27:39 < djanatyn-morsi> (I didn't make it)
21 Jan 2010 13:27:46 < djanatyn-morsi> mrrrrhh?
21 Jan 2010 13:27:46 < vensa> who's JCB?
21 Jan 2010 13:27:55 < djanatyn-morsi> >_>
21 Jan 2010 13:27:59 < djanatyn-morsi> JCB.
21 Jan 2010 13:28:01 < lindar> He tried to sue me and used something that sounded like a gismu for a particular type of cheese!
21 Jan 2010 13:28:11 < djanatyn-morsi> "He's only 14".
21 Jan 2010 13:28:25 < vensa> what?
21 Jan 2010 13:28:29 < tomoj> lindar: the forbidden word?
21 Jan 2010 13:28:34 < djanatyn-morsi> John Cooke Brown. Founder of loglan.
21 Jan 2010 13:28:49 < djanatyn-morsi> (maybe cook)
21 Jan 2010 13:28:49 < vensa> oh
21 Jan 2010 13:28:50 < lindar> Zamenhoff was there, too. He told me to climb up his arsehole. >_>
21 Jan 2010 13:28:54 < vensa> is he dead?
21 Jan 2010 13:28:55 < djanatyn-morsi> Yay!
21 Jan 2010 13:29:07 < djanatyn-morsi> uhhh...is he dead?
21 Jan 2010 13:29:15 < vensa> isnt it James?
21 Jan 2010 13:29:20 < lindar> It is James.
21 Jan 2010 13:29:21 < djanatyn-morsi> I LIKE SIERRA MIST
21 Jan 2010 13:29:28 < djanatyn-morsi> Oh. James.
21 Jan 2010 13:29:34 < djanatyn-morsi> I'm only 14!
21 Jan 2010 13:29:44 < lindar> James Cooke Brown, may he rest in peace (and realise that we did it better).
21 Jan 2010 13:29:48 < vensa> how could you defile a dead guy like that?
21 Jan 2010 13:30:10 < djanatyn-morsi> ...he's dead.
21 Jan 2010 13:30:15 < lindar> You have yet to realise that I make fun of people as a means of endearing them.
21 Jan 2010 13:30:24 < djanatyn-morsi> You seem very main-stream.
21 Jan 2010 13:30:26 < vensa> JCB doesn';t realize that
21 Jan 2010 13:30:33 < lindar> Yeah, cos he's dead.
21 Jan 2010 13:30:37 < djanatyn-morsi> JCB IS DEAD
21 Jan 2010 13:30:40 < vensa> as will u be
21 Jan 2010 13:30:45 < vensa> muahahaha
21 Jan 2010 13:30:54 < vensa> sometime :P
21 Jan 2010 13:31:19 < lindar> In the great infinity of time and space he's probably already come up with a language far superior to Lojban in the span of time it took me to eat lunch, and then went on to save the universe forty-two times.
21 Jan 2010 13:31:19 < vensa> now seriously: what's fa'o mean?
21 Jan 2010 13:31:21 < djanatyn-morsi> Yes. When I am dead, feel free to have sex with my dead body and say anything you want. donri, you can have my corpse.
21 Jan 2010 13:31:28 < djanatyn-morsi> BECAUSE I WILL BE DEAD
21 Jan 2010 13:31:37 < djanatyn-morsi> Aaaaaaaaah.
21 Jan 2010 13:31:42 < donri> hawt
21 Jan 2010 13:31:55 < lindar> fa'o is a term use to delineate the end of text input in computers.
21 Jan 2010 13:32:05 < vensa> what does that mean?
21 Jan 2010 13:32:11 < vensa> line feed?
21 Jan 2010 13:32:13 < Melvar> It means EOF.
21 Jan 2010 13:32:16 < vensa> oh
21 Jan 2010 13:32:20 < vensa> cool
21 Jan 2010 13:32:25 < donri> djanatyn-morsi, does that mean i can molest you in your sleep?
21 Jan 2010 13:32:25 < djanatyn-morsi> (fa'o is a running joke in lojban. It means end of text, and we use it as an "end of the universe paradox broken time machine small hadron collider" thingie.)
21 Jan 2010 13:32:30 < Melvar> ^D
21 Jan 2010 13:32:34 < djanatyn-morsi> No. I wake back up.
21 Jan 2010 13:32:43 < donri> so?
21 Jan 2010 13:32:46 < lindar> xD
21 Jan 2010 13:32:48 < vensa> yeah... that I noticed, djan
21 Jan 2010 13:32:53 < djanatyn-morsi> when people say fa'o, baaaaaaad things happen.
21 Jan 2010 13:33:00 < lindar> Oh donri, you's outrageous.
21 Jan 2010 13:33:01 < donri> death isn't an absolute state either
21 Jan 2010 13:33:17 < djanatyn-morsi> it means the end of the text. fa'o (you did not see these words)
21 Jan 2010 13:33:29 < djanatyn-morsi> donri: yeah. yeah it is.
21 Jan 2010 13:33:38 < donri> nope.
21 Jan 2010 13:33:42 < donri> ask rlpowell. :)
21 Jan 2010 13:33:43 < vensa> doi donri do'u tu'a do rinka lenu mi bilma binxo
21 Jan 2010 13:33:46 < djanatyn-morsi> unless you're being criocized.
21 Jan 2010 13:33:49 <@rlpowell> ?
21 Jan 2010 13:33:52 < djanatyn-morsi> But I am not.
21 Jan 2010 13:34:07 < djanatyn-morsi> When I die...my corpse will be eaten by worms.
21 Jan 2010 13:34:29 < djanatyn-morsi> rlpowell: donri thinks he shouldn't be able to ass-rape my dead body
21 Jan 2010 13:34:29 < donri> i'm not a worm!
21 Jan 2010 13:34:44 < donri> what, that's not what i said!
21 Jan 2010 13:34:49 < djanatyn-morsi> anyway. doctor is here.
21 Jan 2010 13:35:05 < djanatyn-morsi> you totally said that ;)
21 Jan 2010 13:35:17 < vensa> wow. to thinki we moved from an r-rated subject to an objectively gross r-rated subject
21 Jan 2010 13:35:37 < vensa> all thanks to you - innocent djanatyn
21 Jan 2010 13:35:43 < vensa> god bless u
21 Jan 2010 13:35:59 < lindar> Welcome to Lojbanistan. >_>
21 Jan 2010 13:36:14 < vensa> that's ur twisted version of lojbanistan
21 Jan 2010 13:36:15 < lindar> We do other things besides being gross, you know.
21 Jan 2010 13:36:30 < vensa> like what
21 Jan 2010 13:36:31 < lindar> That's just when donri and djan are here at the same time that this happens.
21 Jan 2010 13:36:53 < vensa> well make it stop
21 Jan 2010 13:37:01 < lindar> Well, I have a translation project going on. I usually force people to have opinions about translations as we lack a substantial body of proper terminology for computer-things.
21 Jan 2010 13:37:22 < vensa> what else?
21 Jan 2010 13:37:39 < lindar> If you'd like to join (I encourage you to do so!), head over to http://groups.google.com/group/jbofanva/
21 Jan 2010 13:37:52 < vensa> thanks. but I'n not into gnome
21 Jan 2010 13:37:59 < lindar> We also talk about politics, religion, popular media, etc.
21 Jan 2010 13:38:20 < vensa> la vu .obamas mo
21 Jan 2010 13:38:25 < lindar> Not into Gnome? Well, the point isn't so much to translate Gnome as come up with a proper body of computer terminology.
21 Jan 2010 13:39:16 < lindar> We don't quite have proper terms for things like "transistor", "link", and "sound card".
21 Jan 2010 13:39:41 < djanatyn-morsi> Great. I got the idiot doctor.
21 Jan 2010 13:39:57 -!- durka42 [n=Adium@d252.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 13:40:09 < lindar> It's pretty much anything related to Lojban that goes down here. You can bring up pretty much anything else in #jbopre (off-topic channel). You're allowed to talk about anything in Lojban, or in any language about Lojban in here. =P
21 Jan 2010 13:40:09 < vensa> xu do jinvi ledu'u la .obamas cu xamgu le terdi
21 Jan 2010 13:40:16 < djanatyn-morsi> I call her the idiot doctor because she speaks slowly and simply and treats me like an idiot. When my parents walk in, she totally changes.
21 Jan 2010 13:40:38  * djanatyn-morsi should go to #jbopre
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21 Jan 2010 13:41:42 < vensa> doi djan ko bebna tavla ra
21 Jan 2010 13:41:48 < lindar> .i pe'i la .obamas. ku xamgu lo prenu noi jundi le ve tivni
21 Jan 2010 13:42:06 < vensa> ki'u ma doi lindar
21 Jan 2010 13:42:19 <@xalbo> to zo ku na drani toi
21 Jan 2010 13:42:47 < vensa> why not? isn't it at the end of a sumti?
21 Jan 2010 13:42:52 < vensa> (the ku)
21 Jan 2010 13:43:12 < lindar> That's perfectly gendra. ku ends la.
21 Jan 2010 13:43:21 < vensa> xalbo?
21 Jan 2010 13:43:22 < kribacr> No it's not.
21 Jan 2010 13:43:35 < lindar> Bullcrap. Refgram or GTFO.
21 Jan 2010 13:43:36 < kribacr> {ku} terminates selbri-la. cmevla-la is self terminating.
21 Jan 2010 13:43:40 <@xalbo> {ku} only ends {la} when it's taking a selbri.
21 Jan 2010 13:43:48 < vensa> hehehe, not using cu has finally kicked lindar in the butt :)
21 Jan 2010 13:43:48 < lindar> cmavo {la} glossing to "that named" of selma'o LA terminated by KU   name descriptor: the one(s) called ... ; takes name or selbri description.
21 Jan 2010 13:44:04 < lindar> Like I said, refgram or GTFO.
21 Jan 2010 13:44:11 < kribacr> not grammatical: .i <I> [`.'] la <LA> [ ] .obamas. <CMENE> [] ku <KU> [ ] merja'a <BRIVLA> [the president of the US]
21 Jan 2010 13:44:18 < vensa> lmao
21 Jan 2010 13:44:20 < lindar> vensa: Even then, you don't need {cu}. It's delimited by denpa bu, so you don't actually need {cu}.
21 Jan 2010 13:44:32 < vensa> you don't need cu
21 Jan 2010 13:44:36 < lindar> So...
21 Jan 2010 13:44:42 < vensa> but if you would have used it instead of insisting on ku......
21 Jan 2010 13:44:59 < lindar> .i pe'i la .obamas. xamgu lo prenu noi jundi le ve tivni
21 Jan 2010 13:45:03  * djanatyn-morsi blams lindar
21 Jan 2010 13:45:11 < lindar> BLAM! *dead*
21 Jan 2010 13:45:12 < djanatyn-morsi> BLAM DOI LINDAR
21 Jan 2010 13:45:21 < djanatyn-morsi> Get up.
21 Jan 2010 13:45:26 < vensa> what's blam?
21 Jan 2010 13:45:27 < lindar> x___x
21 Jan 2010 13:45:28 < djanatyn-morsi> You're not dead (yet).
21 Jan 2010 13:45:37 < djanatyn-morsi> blam is...BLAM
21 Jan 2010 13:45:45 < lindar> vensa: An onomatopoeia for the sound a gun/cannon makes.
21 Jan 2010 13:45:49 < vensa> doi lindar ki'u ma do jinvi da
21 Jan 2010 13:45:54 < lindar> Common in most dialects of English.
21 Jan 2010 13:45:55 < vensa> oh
21 Jan 2010 13:45:55 < kribacr> sa'ei .blam.
21 Jan 2010 13:45:56 < djanatyn-morsi> I don't really know. It is loud and BLAM
21 Jan 2010 13:46:11 < djanatyn-morsi> lindar: NO IT IS NOT
21 Jan 2010 13:46:18 < lindar> KO SISTI .DJAN.
21 Jan 2010 13:46:19 < vensa> y BLAM him all of a sudden?
21 Jan 2010 13:46:30 < vensa> lindar: ko sisti "using caps"
21 Jan 2010 13:46:30 < djanatyn-morsi> BLAM can mean that, but BLAM does not always mean that.
21 Jan 2010 13:46:48  * djanatyn-morsi uses caps ONLY sometimes.
21 Jan 2010 13:47:01 < djanatyn-morsi> let US RAndomly UsE caps.
21 Jan 2010 13:47:14 < vensa> can't we have a serious lojban conversation for more than one minute without someone going BLAM or fa'o?
21 Jan 2010 13:47:20 < timonator> doi lindar
21 Jan 2010 13:47:24 < djanatyn-morsi> KO CITKA LOI NANBA .I .U'U DOI KRIBACR
21 Jan 2010 13:47:30 < lindar> .i doi la vensa do'u ki'u lo du'u la .obamas. na catni li'a
21 Jan 2010 13:47:37 < timonator> ca lo cabdei mi zutse vi ii le melbi be mi ninmu gi'e nai tavla ri io nai cai se'i
21 Jan 2010 13:47:41 < timonator> ko tikpa lo mi ganti
21 Jan 2010 13:47:42 < lindar> djan, shush. You're acting just 14.
21 Jan 2010 13:47:54 < timonator> si si si mi lo ganti
21 Jan 2010 13:47:58 < djanatyn-morsi> I AM NOT 14 I AM 14.75
21 Jan 2010 13:48:03  * djanatyn-morsi truly isn
21 Jan 2010 13:48:07 < djanatyn-morsi> See? Immaturen
21 Jan 2010 13:48:16 < djanatyn-morsi> and my period key is brokenn
21 Jan 2010 13:48:23 < djanatyn-morsi> strangen
21 Jan 2010 13:48:32 < lindar> djan, spam.
21 Jan 2010 13:48:34 < timonator> djanatyn-morsi: when you ask wolfram alpha for "time since *birthdate with year*" it will tell you very, very exactly how old you are
21 Jan 2010 13:48:36 < lindar> Take it to #jbopre
21 Jan 2010 13:48:45 < djanatyn-morsi> sorrynnn. yay! ....
21 Jan 2010 13:48:57  * vensa kicks timos in the scrotum
21 Jan 2010 13:49:03 < djanatyn-morsi> timos: who is wolfram alpha?
21 Jan 2010 13:49:24 < djanatyn-morsi> hey! that's donri's job.
21 Jan 2010 13:49:27 < lindar> .i doi .timos. ki'u ma do na tavla le melbi
21 Jan 2010 13:49:30 < djanatyn-morsi> But he doesn't...kick.
21 Jan 2010 13:49:50 < timonator> lindar: zutse ca'u mi
21 Jan 2010 13:50:14 < vensa> ra terpa lo melbi ninmu
21 Jan 2010 13:50:14 < lindar> .ua je'e
21 Jan 2010 13:50:46 < timonator> zasti fa nanmu poi ta'e rinsa ny
21 Jan 2010 13:50:58 < timonator> my ny ta'e cisma fa'a lo nanmu
21 Jan 2010 13:51:08 < lindar> .u'i sai .i la .timos. na terpa .iku'i la .timos. na certu lo nu tavla loi melbi
21 Jan 2010 13:51:18 < timonator> mi je'a terpa
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21 Jan 2010 13:51:49 < kribacr> .i ko tavla pe'a fi'o se pilno fe'u lo pinji be do be'o ku vau
21 Jan 2010 13:51:58 < timonator> u'i
21 Jan 2010 13:52:28 < lindar> xD
21 Jan 2010 13:52:36 < vensa> ja'a go'i
21 Jan 2010 13:52:44 < vensa> "use the force"
21 Jan 2010 13:52:59 < timonator> ma tadji lo nu pinji tavla ue
21 Jan 2010 13:53:31 < vensa> lunbe u'i
21 Jan 2010 13:54:45 < vensa> take it out and wave it at her as you speak
21 Jan 2010 13:54:58 < vensa> that'll get her attention
21 Jan 2010 13:55:00 < lindar> xD
21 Jan 2010 13:55:19 < lindar> .i doi la vensa ko tavla fo la .lojban. po'o
21 Jan 2010 13:55:41 < vensa> I try lindar.. but it's hard to make a pun quicklly in lojban. the moment would be gone
21 Jan 2010 13:55:57 < lindar> .i ko na krokodilo zo'o
21 Jan 2010 13:56:08 < vensa> lojban is reserved for boring "hows the weather" questions
21 Jan 2010 13:56:29  * lindar thinks it would be funny to borrow that expression.
21 Jan 2010 13:56:51 < vensa> what expression is that?
21 Jan 2010 13:57:01 < vensa> dont be a crocodile?
21 Jan 2010 13:57:12 < LogicalDash> Esperantists call you a crocodile if you try to speak in non-Esperanto at an Esperanto meet
21 Jan 2010 13:57:20 < lindar> .i xu la .esperanton. na slabu do
21 Jan 2010 13:57:32 < vensa> mi na slabu
21 Jan 2010 13:57:40 < vensa> na slabu mi
21 Jan 2010 13:57:44 < lindar> xD
21 Jan 2010 13:57:52 < vensa> mi na slabu mi zo'o
21 Jan 2010 13:57:53 < lindar> .i ko pilno zo sa
21 Jan 2010 13:57:58 < vensa> u'u
21 Jan 2010 13:58:04 < vensa> which reminds me:
21 Jan 2010 13:58:07 < vensa> question about "sa":
21 Jan 2010 13:58:16 < vensa> is there an elidable terminator for sa?
21 Jan 2010 13:58:21 < lindar> .i mi gletu loi nanla sa nelci lo nanba
21 Jan 2010 13:58:27 < vensa> how would I use "sa" to erase the entire last utternace?
21 Jan 2010 13:58:30 < vensa> "sa vau"?
21 Jan 2010 13:58:33 < lindar> No, it doesn't work like that.
21 Jan 2010 13:58:33 < vensa> "sa .i"?
21 Jan 2010 13:58:44 < lindar> It erases up to where you start after {sa}.
21 Jan 2010 13:58:48 < lindar> See above.
21 Jan 2010 13:58:53 < lindar> .i mi gletu loi nanla sa nelci lo nanba <-----
21 Jan 2010 13:59:00 < vensa> image i want to erase the entire last utterance and start completely over
21 Jan 2010 13:59:04 < vensa> how would I do that?
21 Jan 2010 13:59:25 < vensa> I don't want to try to think where the replacement is going to start based on what follows sa
21 Jan 2010 13:59:27 < lindar> .i mi dansu le zgike be la .madonas. sa .i mi bebna
21 Jan 2010 13:59:29 < LogicalDash> la esperant. cu pamoi loi se finti bangu lo ka misno
21 Jan 2010 13:59:47 < vensa> so "sa .i" is the way to go?
21 Jan 2010 13:59:47 < LogicalDash> wait, is a quality a rule?
21 Jan 2010 13:59:49 < LogicalDash> damn
21 Jan 2010 14:00:09 < lindar> I have no idea what you said, ly.
21 Jan 2010 14:00:24 < LogicalDash> Esperanto is the most famous conlang
21 Jan 2010 14:00:33 < vensa> u wish :P
21 Jan 2010 14:00:41 < LogicalDash> (the first in the set of invented languages ordered by famousity)
21 Jan 2010 14:01:10 < LogicalDash> [NOT ESPERANTIST]
21 Jan 2010 14:01:11 < lindar> wtf is "misno"
21 Jan 2010 14:01:20 < LogicalDash> famous
21 Jan 2010 14:01:32 < vensa> ] <makfa> gismu {misno} glossing to "famous" with rafsi -mis-, -mi'o-   x1 (person/object/event) is famous/renowned/is a celebrity among community of persons x2 (mass).   Notes: Also celebrated/well-known
21 Jan 2010 14:01:54 < lindar> Huh, that's a really terrible word. I thought there was a rule against that (seems too similar to "masno"), but maybe that's just final vowel.
21 Jan 2010 14:02:14 < vensa> a and i are quite diff
21 Jan 2010 14:02:25  * lindar shrugs.
21 Jan 2010 14:02:28 < vensa> at least that's what they tell me when I complain that words sound alike
21 Jan 2010 14:02:35  * lindar shrugs.
21 Jan 2010 14:02:41  * lindar ...again.
21 Jan 2010 14:02:49  * vensa kicks
21 Jan 2010 14:03:03 < vensa> (timos in the scrotum)
21 Jan 2010 14:03:05 < LogicalDash> So, seriously, am I allowed to use a ka-expression as a rule for ordering? If not, what am I supposed to put there?
21 Jan 2010 14:03:13 < lindar> .i doi .timos. le melbi ku zvati vau xu
21 Jan 2010 14:03:22 < lindar> ly. Probably ni.
21 Jan 2010 14:03:36 < LogicalDash> aha
21 Jan 2010 14:03:36 < LogicalDash> .ua
21 Jan 2010 14:03:58 < vensa> mi bazi co'a lumci vo'a
21 Jan 2010 14:04:06 < vensa> co'o
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21 Jan 2010 14:05:01 < kribacr> .i la .esperantan. zmadu fi lo ka misno
21 Jan 2010 14:05:19 < lindar> co'o la vensa ko pluka co'e
21 Jan 2010 14:05:48 < vensa> ki'e vi'o
21 Jan 2010 14:08:30  * lindar is very impressed by the newbie's jbo. *applause!*
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21 Jan 2010 14:12:28 < timonator> doi lindar lo melbi cu darno mi i je mi jibni lo mi ckana
21 Jan 2010 14:12:38 < timonator> xu nibli
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21 Jan 2010 14:13:24 < lindar> .yyy ki'a
21 Jan 2010 14:13:55 < timonator> u'i
21 Jan 2010 14:16:46 < lindar> .i ma nibli ma
21 Jan 2010 14:17:22 < LogicalDash> I think he's asking if the sentences are related
21 Jan 2010 14:20:12 < timonator> yeah
21 Jan 2010 14:20:21 < timonator> "maybe she's far, because i closed in on my bed"
21 Jan 2010 14:21:43 < timonator> well, at least i know how to get to sit near her
21 Jan 2010 14:21:45 < timonator> by being late
21 Jan 2010 14:22:04 < timonator> (because if i come early, i will sit near the middle and as she always comes late, she sits at the outside)
21 Jan 2010 14:25:10 < lindar> .i ko dunda lo notci be lo du'u prami le melbi
21 Jan 2010 14:25:17 < lindar> =P
21 Jan 2010 14:26:21 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.129] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 14:26:34 < donri> coi djan
21 Jan 2010 14:26:44 < jcowan> coi
21 Jan 2010 14:27:39 < vensa> le djacu puki lenku ki'u lenu mi na pu sazri le glare djacu minji .iseki'ubo le pinji be mi ba'o to'e banro
21 Jan 2010 14:27:59 < vensa> could someone please interpret that into colloquial english for me? thanks
21 Jan 2010 14:28:30 < vensa> + does the puki stick to the first ki'u clause?
21 Jan 2010 14:28:34 < lindar> xD
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21 Jan 2010 14:29:29 < lindar> I haven't a clue as to how to use that word.
21 Jan 2010 14:29:37 < lindar> However, the meaning is funny.
21 Jan 2010 14:29:52 < vensa> good. then I suppose I said it right
21 Jan 2010 14:30:12 < vensa> ca co'a sipna fa mi .i co'o
21 Jan 2010 14:31:14 < lindar> "The water was cold because I didn't use the [water heater?], therefore my penis has lost its growth." (bad translation)
21 Jan 2010 14:31:29 < vensa> that's pretty much what I intended
21 Jan 2010 14:31:34 < vensa> yeah, the water boiler
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21 Jan 2010 14:31:42 < lindar> .i ta'o co'o la vensa
21 Jan 2010 14:31:45 < vensa> I also meant "shrunk"
21 Jan 2010 14:31:49 < vensa> co'o
21 Jan 2010 14:31:54 < vensa> xamgu nicte
21 Jan 2010 14:32:12 < lindar> (MALGLI!!!)
21 Jan 2010 14:32:20 < lindar> .i ko pluka sipna
21 Jan 2010 14:32:20 < vensa> :)
21 Jan 2010 14:32:26 < vensa> ki'e
21 Jan 2010 14:32:29 < vensa> ko pluka sipna
21 Jan 2010 14:32:30 < vensa> vi;o
21 Jan 2010 14:32:32 < vensa> co'o
21 Jan 2010 14:32:38 -!- vensa [i=4d7c290c@gateway/web/freenode/x-zkpvgufcqmnjurfu] has quit ["Page closed"]
21 Jan 2010 14:33:29 < lindar> .i .ai na sipna >____>
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21 Jan 2010 14:36:15  * lindar dansu
21 Jan 2010 14:36:52 < djanatyn-morsi> LINDAR HELP
21 Jan 2010 14:37:04 < lindar> .i mi nelci lo nu po'o rodo tavla fo la .lojban.
21 Jan 2010 14:37:09 < lindar> >_> What's up, djan?
21 Jan 2010 14:39:21 < djanatyn-morsi> I am being forced to take antidepressants.
21 Jan 2010 14:40:47 < donri> ko na te cmene la djanatyn zo djan oisai
21 Jan 2010 14:42:27 < djanatyn-morsi> My parents are going to start force-feeding them to me every day, calling medical professionals if neccessary.
21 Jan 2010 14:44:27 < lindar> >_>
21 Jan 2010 14:44:42 < lindar> Do you have problems with depression?
21 Jan 2010 14:46:18 < djanatyn-morsi> Not really. Well. In the past. But it was about my dad.
21 Jan 2010 14:46:49 < djanatyn-morsi> I have been very happy recenty, and my depression has dramatically improved once I began avoiding my dad.
21 Jan 2010 14:47:16 < lindar> Okay, you should talk to your therapist about this. My husband was in the same situation. Unless you're clinically depressed, you don't need them. If your depression stems from something that's happening in your life instead of a medical condition, antidepressants will make things worse and will probably cause you to feel suicidal.
21 Jan 2010 14:47:27 < donri> djanatyn-morsi, that's avoiding the issue. maybe SSRIs can help you cope with the issues head on?
21 Jan 2010 14:48:16 < lindar> My husband tried to kill himself three different times while he was on antidepressants. If you don't have a medical reason for taking them, they're seriously going to fuck you up.
21 Jan 2010 14:48:17 < djanatyn-morsi> My therapist is now extremely aggresive and wants to shove the pill down my throat (not the nice therapist)
21 Jan 2010 14:50:01 < lindar> I suggest you try to rationalise before they start cramming medication down your throat. Explain that you aren't depressed, your father is the one that's causing your depression. It's treating the symptom and not the cause.
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21 Jan 2010 14:51:27 < jcowan> Not only that, but you can point out that SSRIs often have paradoxical effects (they make some 10% worse), and that their safety and efficacy in children under 18 has not been established by clinical trials.
21 Jan 2010 14:53:36 < lindar> Not to mention that medications for depression and attention-deficit disorders often stunt the development of adolescents.
21 Jan 2010 14:53:40 -!- durka42 [n=Adium@d252.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit ["Leaving."]
21 Jan 2010 14:54:01 < lindar> It stunts brain, metabolic, and physical development.
21 Jan 2010 14:56:18 < djanatyn-morsi> Okay okay. That won't work - I will have to take it.
21 Jan 2010 14:56:33 < djanatyn-morsi> I tried to resist medicine before...it was NOT pretty
21 Jan 2010 14:56:49 < djanatyn-morsi> I also have the prescription ordered. Medical staff work fast.
21 Jan 2010 14:57:12 < lindar> You've already explained that the depression is caused by an outside source, not a medical condition?
21 Jan 2010 14:58:08 < lindar> At this point this sounds like abuse to me. Maybe I'm not getting the whole picture, but based on my understanding I would call the police and have child services arbitrate a discussion here.
21 Jan 2010 14:58:44 < djanatyn-morsi> NO NO NO
21 Jan 2010 14:58:53 < lindar> Why not?
21 Jan 2010 15:00:10 < lindar> Well, you can either try to discuss this with everybody like a civilised human being, you can call child services and -force- them to talk about it, or you can just deal with it and be a doped up zombie. >_>
21 Jan 2010 15:00:28 < djanatyn-morsi> I already am a zombie.
21 Jan 2010 15:01:25 < lindar> Well, that's your bag. I'm not going to jump in and do anything, but I suggest you do something about this now before it becomes even worse.
21 Jan 2010 15:02:02 < lindar> This sounds exactly like what my husband's mother did.
21 Jan 2010 15:03:00 < lindar> So I'll leave it at that, but if one of your parents strikes you, I -am- going to call the police. This situation seems all too familiar to me.
21 Jan 2010 15:04:01 < djanatyn-morsi> WAIT WHAT
21 Jan 2010 15:04:08 < djanatyn-morsi> NO NO NO NO NO NO
21 Jan 2010 15:04:36 < lindar> I'm not calling anybody. Don't freak out. >_>
21 Jan 2010 15:04:36  * djanatyn-morsi tackles lindar
21 Jan 2010 15:04:45 < djanatyn-morsi> Oh. Were you joking?
21 Jan 2010 15:05:03 < lindar> No, I'm not joking. This situation sounds exactly like what my husband's mother did.
21 Jan 2010 15:05:10 < djanatyn-morsi> Heh. I thought you were serious.
21 Jan 2010 15:05:13 < lindar> I'm not going to say anything, but I suggest you do.
21 Jan 2010 15:05:24  * djanatyn-morsi is fiiiiiiiiiine!
21 Jan 2010 15:05:36 < djanatyn-morsi> I'm just 14 and like to complain a lot.
21 Jan 2010 15:05:39 < lindar> However, if I find out that one or both of your parents are hitting you, I -am- going to contact the police.
21 Jan 2010 15:05:50 < lindar> That shit doesn't fly with me.
21 Jan 2010 15:05:58 < djanatyn-morsi> Yes. My family is a little messed up. I just need to adapt.
21 Jan 2010 15:06:30 < lindar> Like I said, if you don't have a medical condition that causes you to be depressed, antidepressants are going to mess you up.
21 Jan 2010 15:06:50 < lindar> You know yourself better than I do, so you make that call.
21 Jan 2010 15:07:33 < djanatyn-morsi> I am clinically depressed. I am just being stubborn
21 Jan 2010 15:07:42 < djanatyn-morsi> Man. You are violent-tongued.
21 Jan 2010 15:08:24 < djanatyn-morsi> I AM A FLIPPIN' 14 YEAR OLD FROM THE INTERNET
21 Jan 2010 15:10:02 < lericson> What's up with everyone in this channel having a psychiatric anomaly?
21 Jan 2010 15:10:25 < tomoj> it's #lojban?
21 Jan 2010 15:10:35 < tomoj> I think you have to have SOME kind of anomaly to wind up here
21 Jan 2010 15:10:50 < lindar> Yeah, seriously.
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21 Jan 2010 15:11:05 < tomoj> normal people are like "wtf?"
21 Jan 2010 15:11:20 < lindar> Quit bein' weird and dramatic, then. You freak me out, djan.
21 Jan 2010 15:12:25 < djanatyn-morsi> Sorry. I get excited.
21 Jan 2010 15:13:02 < tomoj> my parents used to say "take a chill pill" all the time
21 Jan 2010 15:13:03 < donri> there are no 12 year olds on the internet. because international law has a 13 year old limit. :(
21 Jan 2010 15:13:05 < tomoj> when I was like 5
21 Jan 2010 15:13:08 < tomoj> no wonder I'm a druggie
21 Jan 2010 15:13:22 < tomoj> you have to be 13 to use the internet?
21 Jan 2010 15:13:40 < donri> nah. mildly joking.
21 Jan 2010 15:13:44 < djanatyn-morsi> Umm. I visited IRC and many other places at 12.
21 Jan 2010 15:13:57 < lindar> IRC Is Really Cool
21 Jan 2010 15:14:01 < tomoj> I guess there's some rule in the US at least about collecting personal info
21 Jan 2010 15:14:13 < donri> but, http://www.coppa.org
21 Jan 2010 15:14:31 < tomoj> funny that it says "websites"
21 Jan 2010 15:14:37 < tomoj> I wonder if that's what the law really says
21 Jan 2010 15:14:38 < donri> :)
21 Jan 2010 15:14:51 < lindar> Yeah, you can't collect personal info from people under 13 without consent of an adult.
21 Jan 2010 15:15:07 < tomoj> and whether they think "websites" includes everything else on the web that I don't call "websites"
21 Jan 2010 15:15:48 < tomoj> e.g. does IRC count if the person willingly gives an email address, name, and whatever they say in channels?
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21 Jan 2010 15:17:08 < lindar> >_>
21 Jan 2010 15:17:13 < lindar> ANYWAY
21 Jan 2010 15:17:30 < djanatyn-morsi> YAY BREAD
21 Jan 2010 15:17:38 < djanatyn-morsi> CATBUTT
21 Jan 2010 15:17:44 < djanatyn-morsi> DOGFACE
21 Jan 2010 15:17:53 < lindar> SEE MY DJAN IMPRESSION WASN'T FAR OFF
21 Jan 2010 15:17:58 < djanatyn-morsi> GERKU
21 Jan 2010 15:17:59 < lindar> HE CAPITALISES EVERYTHING
21 Jan 2010 15:18:04 < djanatyn-morsi> NO WAY
21 Jan 2010 15:18:05 < donri> "(1) CHILD.—The term "child" means an individual under the age of 13."
21 Jan 2010 15:18:08 < donri> somehow, this is amusing to me.
21 Jan 2010 15:18:19 < djanatyn-morsi> What about LEAP YEARS
21 Jan 2010 15:19:22 -!- AngusRF [n=AngusRF@p5B083493.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Don't let gravity get you down"]
21 Jan 2010 15:19:57  * lindar renro lo finpe la .djan.
21 Jan 2010 15:20:44 < djanatyn-morsi> .UE
21 Jan 2010 15:21:14  * djanatyn-morsi dunda lo finpe lo jukni
21 Jan 2010 15:21:19 < donri> "(2) DJANATYN.—The term "djanatyn" means an individual of sexy physical attributes."
21 Jan 2010 15:21:31 < lindar> >_>
21 Jan 2010 15:21:48 < djanatyn-morsi> ...is that correct grammar?
21 Jan 2010 15:21:55  * djanatyn-morsi calls a lawyer
21 Jan 2010 15:21:58 < lindar> If it hasn't already, it's getting old.
21 Jan 2010 15:22:09  * djanatyn-morsi is okay with it.
21 Jan 2010 15:22:16 < djanatyn-morsi> I find it endearing!
21 Jan 2010 15:24:27 < djanatyn-morsi> Yay!
21 Jan 2010 15:24:31 < lindar> Fun.
21 Jan 2010 15:24:33 < djanatyn-morsi> lindar join #jbopre.
21 Jan 2010 15:24:42 < djanatyn-morsi> we're talking about sex with cars.
21 Jan 2010 15:27:30 -!- tomoj [n=user@cpe-70-112-74-98.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 15:33:28 < djanatyn-morsi> oh, so NOW everyone joins.
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21 Jan 2010 15:44:43 < tomoj> can {ko} theoretically be implicit?
21 Jan 2010 15:44:53 < djanatyn-morsi> do-ooooooo Jesus!
21 Jan 2010 15:45:03 < djanatyn-morsi> ...
21 Jan 2010 15:45:18 -!- FireFly [n=firefly@unaffiliated/firefly] has quit ["Leaving"]
21 Jan 2010 15:45:58 < djanatyn-morsi> _o/  \o/  \o_
21 Jan 2010 15:46:16 -!- djanatyn-morsi is now known as jesus_christ
21 Jan 2010 15:46:29 < jesus_christ> coi
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21 Jan 2010 16:02:07 < ThirtySeconds> coi rodo
21 Jan 2010 16:02:21 -!- flugsio [n=flugsio@c83-253-3-28.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21 Jan 2010 16:04:01 < varkiclaflo`i> coi
21 Jan 2010 16:05:26 < LogicalDash> coi so'ido
21 Jan 2010 16:06:28 < krici> coi
21 Jan 2010 16:06:41 < krici> Facebook is in Esperanto...but not Lojban. :(
21 Jan 2010 16:08:12 -!- Hussell [n=Jeremy_H@bas6-kitchener06-1177627467.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 16:08:54 < varkiclaflo`i> rare is the fluent lojbanist
21 Jan 2010 16:09:19 < varkiclaflo`i> more frequent is the esoerantist
21 Jan 2010 16:09:25 < varkiclaflo`i> *esperantist
21 Jan 2010 16:11:08 < krici> I sent a request to FB anyway. :P
21 Jan 2010 16:11:54 < varkiclaflo`i> .u'i .ui
21 Jan 2010 16:13:18 < LogicalDash> pe'i so'i lo nabmi cu se nibli lo za'i claxu lo te xamgu lo jbocasnu
21 Jan 2010 16:13:58 < LogicalDash> or lo so'i?
21 Jan 2010 16:15:05 < krici> {pe'i so'i lo...} i think
21 Jan 2010 16:15:20 < krici> *I think that was correct
21 Jan 2010 16:16:03 < tomoj> sent a request to FB in hope that they might.. what?
21 Jan 2010 16:16:09 < tomoj> or just for fun
21 Jan 2010 16:16:50 < krici> A request to consider adding Lojban as a language option
21 Jan 2010 16:17:38 < tomoj> maybe they would be willing to let people here submit a translation
21 Jan 2010 16:18:06 < tomoj> I imagine they've got it set up so that it's pretty easy to add an option once you've translated whatever needs to be translated
21 Jan 2010 16:19:39 < krici> yeah
21 Jan 2010 16:24:17 -!- sam_tceipn_ [n=sfwc@CPE0023cdf08e67-CM0012c9a094ba.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lojban
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21 Jan 2010 16:31:45 < varkiclaflo`i> at least we have a lojban wikipedia.
21 Jan 2010 16:31:56 < varkiclaflo`i> But then, wikipedia is more open
21 Jan 2010 16:33:51 < krici> Yeah, definitely a more user-friendly interface for translating.
21 Jan 2010 16:53:01 < varkiclaflo`i> co'o rodo
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21 Jan 2010 17:13:36 -!- codrus [n=codrus@m310e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 17:29:02 < codrus> anyone know how to ask "how often?"
21 Jan 2010 17:30:19 < codrus> {dikni fi ma} i suppose
21 Jan 2010 17:32:41 < codrus> can't think of a way using cmavo
21 Jan 2010 17:32:52 < codrus> s/haven't
21 Jan 2010 17:35:43 < Hussell> xomei
21 Jan 2010 17:36:13 < Hussell> No, wait, that's "How many?".
21 Jan 2010 17:37:22 < Hussell> "xoroi", perhaps? Although that's more like "How many times?". Hmm.
21 Jan 2010 17:37:52 < LogicalDash> xoda
21 Jan 2010 17:37:57 < LogicalDash> .u'i
21 Jan 2010 17:39:26 < Hussell> I think codrus got it right the first time. "ma te dikni"
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21 Jan 2010 17:48:00 < codrus> je'e
21 Jan 2010 17:48:09 < codrus> co'o
21 Jan 2010 17:48:11 -!- codrus [n=codrus@m310e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit ["leaving"]
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21 Jan 2010 18:24:27 < krici> Does anyone have an audio of the correct pronunciation of VOWEL+r ?
21 Jan 2010 18:24:39 < krici> ar, er, ir, or, ur
21 Jan 2010 18:25:09 < krici> esp. "er" and "ur". I keep anglicizing it.
21 Jan 2010 18:46:49 < tomoj> I'd like that too
21 Jan 2010 18:46:55 < tomoj> did lindar include it in that video?
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21 Jan 2010 19:19:33 < krici> doi tomoj. -- I wish, but not. Just general lettrals and diphthongs.
21 Jan 2010 19:19:51 < krici> *but no
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21 Jan 2010 20:07:24 -!- codrus [n=codrus@m1a0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 20:08:57 < codrus> mi ca ze'i xruti
21 Jan 2010 20:10:35 < codrus> ca lo nu mi tcidu lo mi skami se mrilu
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21 Jan 2010 20:33:58 -!- selckiku [n=mungojel@c-98-229-3-244.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 20:34:09 < selckiku> coi
21 Jan 2010 20:35:09 < selckiku> .i cando za'a
21 Jan 2010 20:48:11 < codrus> coi coi doi la selckiku
21 Jan 2010 20:49:23 < codrus>           ^^ beginning of a sanga
21 Jan 2010 20:51:54 -!- Vesperto [n=vesperto@138.124.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 20:52:25 < selckiku> coi .codrus. .ui .i xamgu selsanga .i'e
21 Jan 2010 21:08:41 < codrus> sipna temci
21 Jan 2010 21:08:43 -!- codrus [n=codrus@m1a0e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit ["leaving"]
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21 Jan 2010 21:20:17 < CodeBlock> coi rodo
21 Jan 2010 21:20:55 < CodeBlock> coi la'oi baddog_ :P
21 Jan 2010 21:21:41 < baddog_> coi
21 Jan 2010 21:25:21 < CodeBlock> .i la'oi baddog_ ma nuzba
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21 Jan 2010 23:35:44 -!- Hugglesworth is now known as Huggles_sipna
21 Jan 2010 23:36:12 -!- stupid2 [n=Arrgh@91-65-140-21-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 23:36:17 < stupid2> coi ro do
21 Jan 2010 23:36:58 < vensa> coi la'oi stupid2
21 Jan 2010 23:39:20 < stupid2> We need something like a Example Page with Categories like "Order Foot", "Quest the Time" ....
21 Jan 2010 23:39:55 < vensa> huh?
21 Jan 2010 23:42:47 < stupid2> i saw this in one of my Spanish books, they got many sites of sentences and their  translations
21 Jan 2010 23:43:45 < vensa> what is "order foot"
21 Jan 2010 23:44:44 < vensa> even betterL how about each dictionary entry contain at least 3 example usages?
21 Jan 2010 23:47:38 < stupid2> hmm, but so u can learn this one page, and u're able to say *something*
21 Jan 2010 23:50:58 < CodeBlock> coi la'oi stupid2 e. la'oi vensa
21 Jan 2010 23:51:03 < vensa> yeah. ur idea is good for ppl who just want to learn alot (in specific categories). mine is good for learning to use a new word which you found in the dictionary and have no clue how to use
21 Jan 2010 23:51:21 < vensa> coi la'oi CodeBlock .i pei
21 Jan 2010 23:51:52 < CodeBlock> gah *looks up what pei means*
21 Jan 2010 23:52:03 < CodeBlock> vensa: jeez, i'm new go easy on me :P
21 Jan 2010 23:52:19 < vensa> come on.. that was easy: one word :)
21 Jan 2010 23:52:34 < vensa> it means: "attutidinal-which?" (question)
21 Jan 2010 23:52:52 < vensa> you answer with an attitudinal meaning your current attitude\emotion
21 Jan 2010 23:54:11 < CodeBlock> vensa: ah!  .i mi uinai
21 Jan 2010 23:54:21 < CodeBlock> (i think... :P)
21 Jan 2010 23:54:28 < vensa> uinai alone should do
21 Jan 2010 23:54:51 -!- lindar [n=lindarth@rrcs-173-196-20-139.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lojban
21 Jan 2010 23:54:59 < CodeBlock> vensa: ah :P
21 Jan 2010 23:55:09 < vensa> ki'u ma do badri
21 Jan 2010 23:55:46 < stupid2> coi la'oi CodeBlock
21 Jan 2010 23:56:02 < vensa> doi la'oi stupid2 ma do tese klama
21 Jan 2010 23:57:28 < CodeBlock> vensa: na sipna. mi tatpi
21 Jan 2010 23:57:41 < vensa> je'e uinaidai
21 Jan 2010 23:59:36 < vensa> ma tcika fo le do se zvati
22 Jan 2010 00:00:38 < vensa> btw: you forgot an ".i" between "na sipna" and "mi tatpi"
22 Jan 2010 00:00:56 < CodeBlock> bah, indeed I did
22 Jan 2010 00:01:34 < CodeBlock> vensa: not sure of the lojbanic way to answer this yet, but 3am >.>
22 Jan 2010 00:01:57 < vensa> :) at least you got the question right
22 Jan 2010 00:02:10 < vensa> one way to answer is simply: li ci
22 Jan 2010 00:02:43 < vensa> times are implicitly 24h so 3 would mean 3am and not 3pm (15 = pamu)
22 Jan 2010 00:03:29 < CodeBlock> vensa: ah i see
22 Jan 2010 00:03:36 < CodeBlock> je'e  :P
22 Jan 2010 00:03:39 < vensa> you do know the number system right?
22 Jan 2010 00:03:49 < CodeBlock> vensa: yeah I was reading on it today
22 Jan 2010 00:03:53 < vensa> cool
22 Jan 2010 00:04:46 < vensa> doi la'oi stupid2 ki'u ma do na spuda mi
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22 Jan 2010 00:05:26 < vensa> doi la'oi CodeBlock ki'u ma do na co'a sipna
22 Jan 2010 00:06:45 < stupid2> vensa : what means "la'oi"
22 Jan 2010 00:07:20 < vensa> la'oi is like la but the name following it is non-Lojban
22 Jan 2010 00:07:27 < stupid2> vensa: and if i understand u correctly, no my real name is Armin Fasold
22 Jan 2010 00:07:28 < vensa> it's an "experimental" cmavo
22 Jan 2010 00:07:53 < stupid2> pls use .stupid2.
22 Jan 2010 00:08:02 < vensa> nice to meet you armin. however, that wasnt my question :)
22 Jan 2010 00:08:03 < CodeBlock> vensa: {why aren't you sleeping?} ?
22 Jan 2010 00:08:08 < CodeBlock> (is that right?)
22 Jan 2010 00:08:14 < vensa> .stupid2. is not Lojban because of the "2"
22 Jan 2010 00:08:27 < vensa> CodeBlock: correct. and the answer is? :)
22 Jan 2010 00:08:46 < vensa> stupid2: which question are you at?
22 Jan 2010 00:08:50 < stupid2> vensa : there was a lojban translation, but i forgot it -.-
22 Jan 2010 00:09:25 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lojban
22 Jan 2010 00:09:31 < vensa> I like using "la'oi' specifically in IRC because if I don't write your name "exactly" as it appears here, you won't get a "ding" and a "red line"
22 Jan 2010 00:09:42 < neptunepink> HE'S REDLINING!
22 Jan 2010 00:09:48 < vensa> yep! :)
22 Jan 2010 00:09:58 < CodeBlock> vensa: something to the effect of "I just can't sleep. I'm kind of tired, but not really. I'm also addicted to lojban now" (have 3 firefox tabs open for lojban-specific stuff) :P
22 Jan 2010 00:10:24 < vensa> I see... that's a lot to translate :P
22 Jan 2010 00:10:30 < CodeBlock> yeah :P
22 Jan 2010 00:11:15 < CodeBlock> vensa: but yeah - i like it, and I'm picking it up (i'm understanding it) but I'm glad you're calling me on my mistakes because we learn from our failures :)
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22 Jan 2010 00:11:52 < vensa> np. I'm glad you're enjoying it to the extent that you can't sleep
22 Jan 2010 00:12:00 < vensa> :)
22 Jan 2010 00:12:11 < CodeBlock> vensa: well that's not the only reason, but it is one of them :P
22 Jan 2010 00:12:19 < vensa> just careful you don't end up with Lojbanic dreams :P
22 Jan 2010 00:12:45 < CodeBlock> vensa: hey that would be a good thing - i like lojban :P
22 Jan 2010 00:13:12 < CodeBlock> better than italian dreams (*pokes baddog_ who's learning italian*) :P
22 Jan 2010 00:13:20 < vensa> trust me... you don;t want to end up turning from side to side in your sleep thinking about the meaning of "pei"
22 Jan 2010 00:14:02 < CodeBlock> vensa: well I know what it means now, so eh :P
22 Jan 2010 00:14:11 < vensa> hehehe :)
22 Jan 2010 00:14:27 < CodeBlock> vensa: I've never had to use it before, and never been asked it before, so bleh I didn't know
22 Jan 2010 00:14:43 < CodeBlock> vensa: least I know for next time! :D
22 Jan 2010 00:15:17 < vensa> I think in Lojban you don;t usually "have" to use things. but if you know certain "magic" words it can make your life a whole lot easier. How else would you ask someone "what is your attitude"
22 Jan 2010 00:15:41 < neptunepink> domo?
22 Jan 2010 00:15:50 < vensa> that could mean anything neptune
22 Jan 2010 00:16:03 < vensa> you are\are doing what
22 Jan 2010 00:16:16 < neptunepink> pensimo
22 Jan 2010 00:16:22 < neptunepink> sipEnsimo
22 Jan 2010 00:16:36 < vensa> huh?
22 Jan 2010 00:16:47 < vensa> feelings are not exactly thoughts
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22 Jan 2010 00:17:02 < vensa> also, it would be "mo pensi" no?
22 Jan 2010 00:17:51 < lindar> Meep.
22 Jan 2010 00:17:56 < vensa> BLAM
22 Jan 2010 00:17:59 < neptunepink> I suppose it could be, uhm
22 Jan 2010 00:17:59 < lindar> That would be "Who is pensive?".
22 Jan 2010 00:18:18 < lindar> "What penses?" <---not a real word
22 Jan 2010 00:18:22  * neptunepink smacks lindar with a ma
22 Jan 2010 00:18:31 < vensa> lindar: I meant "do mo pensi" of course
22 Jan 2010 00:18:36 < neptunepink> Did you mean 	penes
22 Jan 2010 00:18:38 < lindar> ....
22 Jan 2010 00:19:03 < lindar> That would be "What kind of pensive are you?".
22 Jan 2010 00:19:07 < vensa> exactly
22 Jan 2010 00:19:15 < vensa> hey, that's what he said. not me
22 Jan 2010 00:19:26 < vensa> I was just saying it's better than "do pensi mo"
22 Jan 2010 00:19:48 < vensa> => you're a thinking-type-of-what
22 Jan 2010 00:20:03 < neptunepink> yeah, it's shitty. pei is much better.
22 Jan 2010 00:20:18 < vensa> thank u. that's all I wanted to claim :)
22 Jan 2010 00:20:27 < mathw> coi
22 Jan 2010 00:20:34 < vensa> coi la'oi mathw
22 Jan 2010 00:20:43 < vensa> pei
22 Jan 2010 00:20:47 < CodeBlock> coi .mathw.
22 Jan 2010 00:21:13 < vensa> CodeBlock: you can't use his name like that. it's still non-llojban cuz of the "w"
22 Jan 2010 00:21:33 < vensa> (and the "h"
22 Jan 2010 00:21:36 < CodeBlock> vensa: ah, i was thinking just the h - which you can't have ' in irc nicks..
22 Jan 2010 00:21:59 < vensa> yeah.. that sucks :(
22 Jan 2010 00:22:00 < lindar> Yeah, but you can have ` which looks almost the same.
22 Jan 2010 00:22:07 < CodeBlock> ok, fine fine
22 Jan 2010 00:22:10 < vensa> lindar: how do you make that?
22 Jan 2010 00:22:10 < CodeBlock> coi la'oi mathw
22 Jan 2010 00:22:11 < neptunepink> We should probably send a petition.
22 Jan 2010 00:22:12 -!- lindar is now known as li`indar
22 Jan 2010 00:22:20 < neptunepink> .u'i
22 Jan 2010 00:22:21 < li`indar> vensa: look at your ~ key.
22 Jan 2010 00:22:26 -!- li`indar is now known as lindar
22 Jan 2010 00:22:29 < vensa> ``````` oh
22 Jan 2010 00:22:33 < lindar> nurrr
22 Jan 2010 00:22:36 < neptunepink> Alternatively, you could just copy and paste them. :P
22 Jan 2010 00:22:43 < vensa> well, it still wouldn't help REDLINING :(
22 Jan 2010 00:22:48 -!- klaid_ [n=klaid@ip68-226-71-131.cl.ri.cox.net] has joined #lojban
22 Jan 2010 00:23:07 < neptunepink> vensa: Check this out: «áàä». ¿Scary, isn't it?
22 Jan 2010 00:23:16 < vensa> .iisai
22 Jan 2010 00:23:26 < neptunepink> .uí
22 Jan 2010 00:23:45  * neptunepink sends vensa on a unicode-drug-trip
22 Jan 2010 00:23:53 < vensa> u'i
22 Jan 2010 00:24:08 < vensa> mi tcegei
22 Jan 2010 00:24:12 < CodeBlock> well..
22 Jan 2010 00:24:41 < vensa> well what?
22 Jan 2010 00:24:44 < neptunepink> u'i != gleki
22 Jan 2010 00:24:57 < vensa> I know. I didn't say it did
22 Jan 2010 00:24:59 < CodeBlock> mi troci sipna za'ure'u // I'll try sleeping again.
22 Jan 2010 00:25:04 < CodeBlock> co'o rodo
22 Jan 2010 00:25:07 < vensa> I am amused. and also ecstatic.
22 Jan 2010 00:25:11 < neptunepink> BA'E YOU IMPLIED IT CAI
22 Jan 2010 00:25:18 < vensa> co'o la'oi CodeBlock
22 Jan 2010 00:25:36 < vensa> a'o ko pluka co'e
22 Jan 2010 00:25:51 < vensa> I didn't imply it
22 Jan 2010 00:26:03 < vensa> you concluded that independently
22 Jan 2010 00:26:24 < vensa> a person can't be amused and also ecstatic?
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22 Jan 2010 00:26:56 < neptunepink> You're probably a n00b who might confuse u'i with ui. But you aren't, obviously.
22 Jan 2010 00:27:23 < vensa> sorry... I'm a n00b. but not that n00
22 Jan 2010 00:27:31 < vensa> u'i
22 Jan 2010 00:28:16 < mathw> The other problem with my name is that the sound we spell 'th' in English really doesn't exist in Lojban.
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22 Jan 2010 00:28:53 < vensa> yep... you poor thing... all the wrong letters and phonemes had to fall in your name... "born under a bad sign" :P
22 Jan 2010 00:29:05 < CodeBlock> .u'i
22 Jan 2010 00:29:11 < vensa> you should SO change your name IRL :P
22 Jan 2010 00:29:19 < lindar> My suggestion that nobody ever takes: .y'y is vocalised as any unused unvoiced fricative, including "TH" in names like JonaTHan and MatTHew.
22 Jan 2010 00:29:42 < neptunepink> I'm half-tempted to get a customized license plate: nugletu
22 Jan 2010 00:29:43 < lindar> la .ma'iun.
22 Jan 2010 00:30:09 < vensa> I thought you're not allowed to have y'y in cmevla?
22 Jan 2010 00:30:14 < lindar> Says who?
22 Jan 2010 00:30:23 < vensa> I read it somewhere I think
22 Jan 2010 00:30:25 < lindar> Probably under whatever-it's-called-that-isn't-dotside rules.
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22 Jan 2010 00:30:35 < vensa> perhaps
22 Jan 2010 00:30:36 < lindar> noi fuckin' lame.
22 Jan 2010 00:30:36 < neptunepink> Not according to jbofi'e
22 Jan 2010 00:30:43 < vensa> but dotside is still NOT official :P
22 Jan 2010 00:30:46 < lindar> neptunepink: Uhhh, yeah, that's pre-xorlo.
22 Jan 2010 00:30:54 < neptunepink> Also fine with camxes.
22 Jan 2010 00:30:56 < lindar> vensa: Neither is your face, but we still put up with it.
22 Jan 2010 00:30:59 < lindar> Use dotside.
22 Jan 2010 00:31:30 < vensa> lindar: at least you cant actually see my face. your language is much harder to put iup with. and its really IN MY FACE :P
22 Jan 2010 00:31:42 < lindar> OH SORRY.
22 Jan 2010 00:31:49 < neptunepink> .ai catra la .gliban.
22 Jan 2010 00:31:49  * lindar ceases to use dirty words.
22 Jan 2010 00:32:03 < vensa> yeah right... I dare you to go 1 day without cursing
22 Jan 2010 00:32:08 < lindar> .i ko morsi doi glibau ! ! !
22 Jan 2010 00:32:56 < neptunepink> lindar: So, what if you say, {doi djeims (blah blah blah) .i ko morsi doi gliban}? :P
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22 Jan 2010 00:34:05 < vensa> xu doi la'oi CodeBlock do za'o cikna
22 Jan 2010 00:34:08 < lindar> uhhh... what? I'm not sure what you're asking.
22 Jan 2010 00:34:47 < neptunepink> lindar: Wouldn't the ko change after the doi?
22 Jan 2010 00:35:04 < neptunepink> (I don't actually know)
22 Jan 2010 00:36:01 < vensa> I'm thinking since there's a closer "doi" in the same sentence with the "ko", the "ko" would still be telling "english" to die
22 Jan 2010 00:36:16 < vensa> its like: "Hey James! (nothing)" "Hey English! Die!"
22 Jan 2010 00:37:03 < lindar> So, what if you say, {doi djeims (blah blah blah) Point where the previous doi no longer works -------> .i ko morsi doi gliban}? :P
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22 Jan 2010 00:37:47 < lindar> However... {.i doi djeimz .i ko morsi vau doi gliban} means what you think it means.
22 Jan 2010 00:38:08 < vensa> you talking to me?
22 Jan 2010 00:38:08 < lindar> ...as far as I know, anyway.
22 Jan 2010 00:39:07 < neptunepink> doi vensa do'u xu zo djeimz cmene do
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22 Jan 2010 00:39:22 < vensa> na go'i
22 Jan 2010 00:39:34 < vensa> also, you need to put "xu" at the beginning there
22 Jan 2010 00:39:42 < vensa> otherwise it applies to the doi clause
22 Jan 2010 00:39:53 < neptunepink> bah, lojban sucks.
22 Jan 2010 00:40:14 < vensa> or u could put it at the end, after "vau"
22 Jan 2010 00:40:16 < lindar> Christ, stop using xu incorrectly. It's not a clause, it's a UI.
22 Jan 2010 00:40:27 < vensa> or you could put a ".i" after the doi clause
22 Jan 2010 00:40:32 < neptunepink> obviously, I wasn't sure if you're name was vensa, as I was renaming you that moment.
22 Jan 2010 00:40:33 < mathw> .i .ui mi ponse lo kabri be lo glare cakla se pinxe
22 Jan 2010 00:40:39 < lindar> You've been here to long to not know that. For every time you mess that up, I shall kill you.
22 Jan 2010 00:40:48 < lindar> >_>
22 Jan 2010 00:40:48 < neptunepink> .uinai
22 Jan 2010 00:40:51 < lindar> My English is failing.
22 Jan 2010 00:40:55 < vensa> neptune: hehe
22 Jan 2010 00:40:58 < lindar> *You've been here too ...
22 Jan 2010 00:41:40 < neptunepink> Do I get to kill you every time you mess up English? Because there's probably something in every sentence.
22 Jan 2010 00:42:23 < vensa> doi la'oi mathw .i xu do nanla
22 Jan 2010 00:42:50 < lindar> neptunepink: I'm English. I can't speak it incorrectly.
22 Jan 2010 00:43:09 < lindar> Cos no matter what it's a language of somebody that's English. =P
22 Jan 2010 00:43:27 < mathw> na go'i
22 Jan 2010 00:43:34 < neptunepink> The USA's unofficial language is "English"
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22 Jan 2010 00:43:49 < lindar> Whatever, you speak merko bangu.
22 Jan 2010 00:43:53 < mathw> lindar: I call nonsense, English people are perfectly capable of speaking bad English
22 Jan 2010 00:44:05 < vensa> pe'i lo glare cakla cu nanla se pince
22 Jan 2010 00:44:08 < lindar> =P
22 Jan 2010 00:44:14 < lindar> mathw: You're missing the joke.
22 Jan 2010 00:44:18 < neptunepink> For example, you started a sentence with a preposition a bit up.
22 Jan 2010 00:44:21 < neptunepink> oshi-
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22 Jan 2010 00:44:40 < vensa> ko pinxe lo ckafi
22 Jan 2010 00:44:52 < vensa> zo'o
22 Jan 2010 00:45:16 < vensa> (no offense. just trying to make lojban small-talk)
22 Jan 2010 00:45:29 < neptunepink> ko co'e la .jbotcan.
22 Jan 2010 00:46:02 < mathw> .i do na drani lo nu jimpe be lo glare cakla se pinxe
22 Jan 2010 00:46:15 < vensa> nice :)
22 Jan 2010 00:46:22 < vensa> .ie
22 Jan 2010 00:46:54 < vensa> I think you need "be fi"
22 Jan 2010 00:47:19 < mathw> .i lo mi risna na zanfri lo ckafi
22 Jan 2010 00:47:20  * lindar fendi li no
22 Jan 2010 00:47:29 < lindar> DOI MAB-
22 Jan 2010 00:47:30 < neptunepink> .iisai
22 Jan 2010 00:47:40 < neptunepink> .u'i
22 Jan 2010 00:47:42 < neptunepink> su
22 Jan 2010 00:48:06 < mathw> vensa: you're correct, that's what comes from thinking I knew {jimpe}'s place structure
22 Jan 2010 00:48:24 < vensa> :) yah... I do that sometimes too. it's good to try to remember
22 Jan 2010 00:48:52 < vensa> ji'a mi na nelci lo ckafi
22 Jan 2010 00:49:29 < vensa> btw: I'm also pretty sure u can't use drani like that. but lack in finding a better alternative
22 Jan 2010 00:49:35 < neptunepink> ji'a mi xebni zo'o lo glare se pinxe
22 Jan 2010 00:50:00 < vensa> .u'i
22 Jan 2010 00:50:00 < lindar> Can you use nelci2 without an abstractor?
22 Jan 2010 00:50:17 < vensa> mi xebni lo glare se pinxe ca lonu glare
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22 Jan 2010 00:50:32 < neptunepink> x1 is fond of/likes/has a taste for x2 (object/state)
22 Jan 2010 00:50:33 < vensa> linda: of course
22 Jan 2010 00:50:36 < vensa> mi nelci do
22 Jan 2010 00:51:45 < vensa> stop trying to over-complicate stuff where it's not clearly needed
22 Jan 2010 00:51:46 < mathw> vensa: I wasn't entirely sure myself
22 Jan 2010 00:51:54 < mathw> I need 'factually incorrect'
22 Jan 2010 00:52:09 < vensa> yeah. I forgot the gismu for that
22 Jan 2010 00:52:13 < mathw> or perhaps 'subjectively incorrect'
22 Jan 2010 00:52:16 < neptunepink> mi na nelci lo ka <crap, I forgot how this works>lambda x: is-hot; cidja
22 Jan 2010 00:52:27 < mathw> I couldn't persuade makfa to provide me with anything plausible
22 Jan 2010 00:52:36 < vensa> yeah... makfa can be such a bitch sometimes
22 Jan 2010 00:52:49 < mathw> it's so often a case of knowing what to search for
22 Jan 2010 00:52:51 < neptunepink> x1 is a (bitch)
22 Jan 2010 00:52:57 < vensa> neptunepink: you mean "hot" or "sp[icy"?
22 Jan 2010 00:52:58 < mathw> and exactly which command will get you the right set of answers
22 Jan 2010 00:53:37 < vensa> I try looking for synonims and also using the "see also" gismu that makfa gives
22 Jan 2010 00:53:44 < neptunepink> I mean glare.
22 Jan 2010 00:54:07 < vensa> you don't like food that is warm/heated?? why?
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22 Jan 2010 00:54:56 < neptunepink> Uh, I was aiming for "hot" not warm.
22 Jan 2010 00:55:02 < vensa> yeah
22 Jan 2010 00:55:09 < vensa> but in the sense of temperature...
22 Jan 2010 00:55:14 < vensa> that still puzzles me
22 Jan 2010 00:55:27 < vensa> why would someone not like hot (temperature-wise) food
22 Jan 2010 00:55:37  * neptunepink pours hot coffee down vensa
22 Jan 2010 00:56:00 < vensa> oiro'o
22 Jan 2010 00:56:07 < neptunepink> .ie
22 Jan 2010 00:56:42 < neptunepink> de'a co'o
22 Jan 2010 00:56:57 < neptunepink> which is all wrong
22 Jan 2010 00:57:09 < vensa> try de'a jundi
22 Jan 2010 00:59:14 < lindar> glare = hot, mliglare = warm
22 Jan 2010 00:59:55 < vensa> doi la'oi mathw ko mojgau mi ledu'u makau do tese klama
22 Jan 2010 01:00:29 < vensa> pe'u
22 Jan 2010 01:01:31  * neptunepink sipna co'o
22 Jan 2010 01:01:41 < vensa> co'o
22 Jan 2010 01:01:54 < vensa> a'o ko pluka senva
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22 Jan 2010 01:08:15 < mathw> doi vensa mi klama fi lo gligu'e
22 Jan 2010 01:09:00 < vensa> :) took u a while
22 Jan 2010 01:10:24 < vensa> do .e la lindar cu jbixa'u xu
22 Jan 2010 01:10:36 < vensa> na go'i
22 Jan 2010 01:10:44 < vensa> ly cu merko pe'i
22 Jan 2010 01:11:03 < vensa> but why does he have an english accent?
22 Jan 2010 01:11:09 -!- lindar [n=lindarth@rrcs-173-196-20-139.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lojban
22 Jan 2010 01:12:20 < vensa> doi lindar. ki'u ma do glico vlabacru
22 Jan 2010 01:12:47 < vensa> do merko xu
22 Jan 2010 01:12:54 < lindar> ki'asai
22 Jan 2010 01:13:03 < mathw> I had to whack jbovlaste a few times because it wouldn't give me the right kind of England/English
22 Jan 2010 01:13:03 < lindar> .i .oi mi na merko
22 Jan 2010 01:13:14 < mathw> Also, I'm at work so I have to do worky things sometimes
22 Jan 2010 01:13:22 < vensa> xu do glico
22 Jan 2010 01:13:34 < vensa> mathw: je'e
22 Jan 2010 01:13:49 < lindar> .i mi glico .iku'i mi xabju lo merko gugde
22 Jan 2010 01:13:54 < vensa> do .e la'oi mathw cu jbixa'u xu
22 Jan 2010 01:14:04 < vensa> na go'i
22 Jan 2010 01:14:05 < vensa> je'e
22 Jan 2010 01:14:09 < vensa> now it all makes sense
22 Jan 2010 01:15:05 < mathw> mi xabju lo gligu'e
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22 Jan 2010 01:16:01 < mathw> .i vi carvi
22 Jan 2010 01:16:07 < lindar> >_<
22 Jan 2010 01:16:13 < vensa> doi la lindar do xabju le mo pagbu be le merko gugde
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22 Jan 2010 01:17:36 < lindar> la .kalifornias.
22 Jan 2010 01:18:02 < vensa> isn't that GMT -9?
22 Jan 2010 01:18:15 < lindar> li bi
22 Jan 2010 01:18:26 < vensa> 8...
22 Jan 2010 01:18:33 < vensa> so it's 1:20 there?
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22 Jan 2010 01:19:18 < lindar> .i go'i
22 Jan 2010 01:19:26 < vensa> coi djan
22 Jan 2010 01:19:43 < vensa> that's strange cuz u seem to be awake most of the "here-day" and "here" is GMT+2
22 Jan 2010 01:20:47 < lindar> Yeah, I'm an audio engineer.
22 Jan 2010 01:21:12 < vensa> doi la'oi mathw ko kavbu loi carvi be lo kabri vau zo'o
22 Jan 2010 01:21:18 < mathw> xu lo nicte cu smaji
22 Jan 2010 01:21:23 < vensa> how's that supposed to explain it?
22 Jan 2010 01:21:36 < lindar> ...let me rephrase.
22 Jan 2010 01:21:41 < lindar> I work with musicians.
22 Jan 2010 01:21:45 < vensa> ahhhhhhhhhhhh
22 Jan 2010 01:22:03 < lindar> =D
22 Jan 2010 01:22:14 < lindar> Additionally, I myself am a musician.
22 Jan 2010 01:22:25 < vensa> {drop the "be" in my prev utterance}
22 Jan 2010 01:22:37 < lindar> I would blame it on that, but I'd be up at these hours no matter what I did. =P
22 Jan 2010 01:22:38 < vensa> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
22 Jan 2010 01:22:55  * vensa shrugs
22 Jan 2010 01:23:08 < vensa> sorry. turret
22 Jan 2010 01:23:39 < mathw> doi vensa mi zmanei lo nu stali lo zdane'i
22 Jan 2010 01:24:11 < vensa> ui je'e
22 Jan 2010 01:25:06 < mathw> doi lindar do zgica'apli ma
22 Jan 2010 01:25:09 < vensa> ti'u ma ba'e na carvi vi le gligu'e
22 Jan 2010 01:25:38 < lindar> wtf
22 Jan 2010 01:25:46 < vensa> it's like saying: There is air here
22 Jan 2010 01:25:55 -!- gunkamanti__ [n=sarefo@213.83.32.130] has joined #lojban
22 Jan 2010 01:26:02 < lindar> mathw, you're going WAY overboard with those lujvo.
22 Jan 2010 01:26:07 < lindar> We have tanru for a reason. =D
22 Jan 2010 01:26:11 < vensa> they're in the dictionary lindar!
22 Jan 2010 01:26:23 < vensa> oh wait
22 Jan 2010 01:26:28 < lindar> Also, zgica'a = x1 is an instrument PLAYED BY X2 <-----this
22 Jan 2010 01:26:38 < vensa> the last one wasnt
22 Jan 2010 01:26:41 < lindar> Yeah, zgica'apli isn't in the dictionary, and is wholly redundant.
22 Jan 2010 01:26:52 < mathw> it's in the definition for zgike
22 Jan 2010 01:27:14 < mathw> I don't make lujvo, I don't know how
22 Jan 2010 01:27:14 < vensa> he's got a point - it is
22 Jan 2010 01:27:23 < lindar> Therefore, {.i do se zgica'a ma doi .lindar.} is more than appropriate.
22 Jan 2010 01:27:38 < vensa> lindar: instead of fixing\screaming at us. Fix jbofi'e!
22 Jan 2010 01:28:01 < lindar> I DON'T USE NOR DID I MAKE THAT HUNK OF CRAP.
22 Jan 2010 01:28:18 < vensa> obviously someone DID
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22 Jan 2010 01:28:25 < vensa> and as I understand it, the BPFK also accepted it
22 Jan 2010 01:28:29 < lindar> KO PILNO LA MAKFA KU .E LO JBOVLASTE PEhU RODO
22 Jan 2010 01:28:32 < vensa> which makes it sorta official
22 Jan 2010 01:29:04 < mathw> I always thought all such things pulled from the same sources
22 Jan 2010 01:29:05 < vensa> what u talking about?
22 Jan 2010 01:29:08 < vensa> it IS IN MAKFA
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22 Jan 2010 01:29:36 < vensa> doesn't makfa take from jbofi'e?
22 Jan 2010 01:29:59 < lindar> >_>
22 Jan 2010 01:30:06 < vensa> what's the diff between jbofi'e and jbovlaste?
22 Jan 2010 01:30:10 < vensa> which is "official"?
22 Jan 2010 01:30:10 < lindar> I have no idea, but zgica'apli isn't in jbovlaste.
22 Jan 2010 01:30:24 < vensa> is jbovlaste the official?
22 Jan 2010 01:30:25 < lindar> http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/ <-------this
22 Jan 2010 01:30:33 < lindar> Probably official.
22 Jan 2010 01:30:50 < lindar> http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl?Form=dict.pl1&Strategy=*&Database=en%3C-%3Ejbo&Query=zgica%27apli&submit=Search <----no results for zgica'apli
22 Jan 2010 01:30:57 < lindar> Probably noralujv or similar fail.
22 Jan 2010 01:31:07 < vensa> it IS TOO IN THERE: look up zgike lindar
22 Jan 2010 01:31:08 < vensa> play an instrument (= zgica'apli, zgiterca'a, selzgigau,
22 Jan 2010 01:31:20 < lindar> http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl?Form=dict.pl1&Query=zgica%27a&Strategy=*&Database=en%3C-%3Ejbo&submit=Submit+query <----- zgica'a, results returned
22 Jan 2010 01:31:29 < vensa> http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl?Form=dict.pl2&Database=*&Query=zgike
22 Jan 2010 01:31:32 < mathw> What it means, I think, is that the definition for zgike is wrong
22 Jan 2010 01:31:32 < lindar> vensa: Yeah, that's the old dump from forever ago.
22 Jan 2010 01:31:47 < vensa> so FIX IT!
22 Jan 2010 01:31:50 < lindar> >_>
22 Jan 2010 01:32:03 < vensa> I'm not responsible for your community's old dumps
22 Jan 2010 01:32:04 < lindar> I'm not going to touch it as that's not my definition.
22 Jan 2010 01:32:09 < lindar> Talk to RLP about it.
22 Jan 2010 01:32:14 < mathw> Since it probably shouldn't mention lujvo that don't exist
22 Jan 2010 01:32:16 < vensa> well then you have no right to scream at us about it
22 Jan 2010 01:32:25 < mathw> And please don't scream at me for not knowing things like that
22 Jan 2010 01:32:30 < mathw> You know I'm a novice
22 Jan 2010 01:32:30 < vensa> yeah!
22 Jan 2010 01:32:50 < vensa> ko jimpe
22 Jan 2010 01:32:54 < vensa> (be understanding)
22 Jan 2010 01:32:54 < lindar> Therefore, {.i do se zgica'a ma doi .lindar.} is more than appropriate. <----------- not yelling anywhere in here
22 Jan 2010 01:33:05 < mathw> And what were you doing later?
22 Jan 2010 01:33:19 < vensa> <lindar> mathw, you're going WAY overboard with those lujvo. <== kinda yelling
22 Jan 2010 01:33:21 < lindar> <vensa> lindar: instead of fixing\screaming at us. Fix jbofi'e! <--------- responding to this
22 Jan 2010 01:33:38 < lindar> =P
22 Jan 2010 01:33:43 < vensa> <lindar> mathw, you're going WAY overboard with those lujvo. <== FALSE ACCUSATIONS
22 Jan 2010 01:33:47 < vensa> :P
22 Jan 2010 01:34:04 < mathw> You'd already been screaming at us at that point
22 Jan 2010 01:34:22 < lindar> Well, it looked like one of those half-arsed lujvo that newbies make because they're way too excited that they've learned how to make lujvo, so for about a month they make up as many lujvo on the fly as possible and stop using tanru.
22 Jan 2010 01:34:25 < mathw> It's best not to assume I'm making mistakes deliberately, because I'm not
22 Jan 2010 01:34:30 < lindar> Everybody ends up going through that phase at some point.
22 Jan 2010 01:34:43 < mathw> Fine, that's a reasonable assumption
22 Jan 2010 01:34:51 < lindar> So, misunderstandings all around! HOORAY!
22 Jan 2010 01:34:59 < vensa> fine whatever
22 Jan 2010 01:35:04 < mathw> But then don't yell at me because I said I got it from looking things up
22 Jan 2010 01:35:24 < mathw> Because it's not my fault if there are mistakes in the database
22 Jan 2010 01:35:24 < lindar> Yeah, that was a mistake on my part. I'm sorry guys.
22 Jan 2010 01:35:37 < vensa> we accept :) <3
22 Jan 2010 01:35:45 < lindar> However, if you're going to use a lujvo, you should probably make sure it's in jbovlaste first.
22 Jan 2010 01:35:57 < vensa> fine
22 Jan 2010 01:36:10 < lindar> ((makfa's "?def" command pulls from it))
22 Jan 2010 01:36:13 < vensa> and someone should drop a word to RLP to fix the DB
22 Jan 2010 01:36:48 < mathw> So now I need to look up every lujvo mentioned in every definition because the DB might be wrong
22 Jan 2010 01:36:52 < mathw> what fun
22 Jan 2010 01:36:58 < mathw> I will however do that
22 Jan 2010 01:37:01 < vensa> mathw: only when talking to lindar :P
22 Jan 2010 01:37:09 < mathw> you'd think it'd be possible to cross-check it automatically
22 Jan 2010 01:37:16 < mathw> hmm in fact I'm sure it is
22 Jan 2010 01:37:20  * mathw starts thinking in Perl
22 Jan 2010 01:37:32 < lindar> RLP is very busy. =P
22 Jan 2010 01:37:58 < vensa> that's why the DB looks the way it does
22 Jan 2010 01:38:11 < vensa> and kribacr is very busy. that's why the L4B doesnt include xorlo
22 Jan 2010 01:38:15 < lindar> Essentially what I mean is this: Ask RLP/Broca before fucking with jbovlaste. If they give you the thumbs up, please change it. We need all the help we can get. =D
22 Jan 2010 01:38:27 < vensa> well it's time some ppl got off their asses and started doing something for this community
22 Jan 2010 01:38:33 < lindar> kribacr didn't write L4B nor did he write CLL.
22 Jan 2010 01:38:39 < lindar> That's James Cowan that wrote CLL.
22 Jan 2010 01:38:45 <@Broca> John.
22 Jan 2010 01:38:49 < lindar> John?
22 Jan 2010 01:38:50 < lindar> >_>
22 Jan 2010 01:38:54 <@Broca> John Woldemar Cowan.
22 Jan 2010 01:38:55 < lindar> I thought his name was James.
22 Jan 2010 01:38:58 < vensa> but he's always talking about intendin to write new material
22 Jan 2010 01:39:07 <@Broca> You must be thinking of James Cooke Brown.
22 Jan 2010 01:39:09 < vensa> James Cook Brown
22 Jan 2010 01:39:15 < lindar> Yeah, I got the names mixed.
22 Jan 2010 01:39:16 < vensa> {Cooke} :P
22 Jan 2010 01:39:44 < lindar> Anyway, if you have a problem with it, fix it. Seriously, we are so understaffed and under-appreciated that any help we can get is more than welcome.
22 Jan 2010 01:39:55 < vensa> can I fix it by myself?
22 Jan 2010 01:40:02 < vensa> how does it work?
22 Jan 2010 01:40:10 < vensa> do I need to get votes for it to become official?
22 Jan 2010 01:40:15 < lindar> If you want to re-write something to update the material, PLEASE do. Once you have it finished, or at least something to show, run it by the higher-ups.
22 Jan 2010 01:40:27 < vensa> I C
22 Jan 2010 01:40:34 < lindar> If you want to rewrite something in jbovlaste, however, you should ask Broca here.
22 Jan 2010 01:40:39 < mathw> I think I need a better handle on the language before I start trying things like that
22 Jan 2010 01:40:39 < vensa> fine
22 Jan 2010 01:40:45 < vensa> me2
22 Jan 2010 01:41:00 < mathw> The awareness that there are such problems with jbovlaste is important though
22 Jan 2010 01:41:06 < lindar> Broca, those "handy suggestions" that come with words in the jbovlaste definitions (read: zgike) aren't actually in jbovlaste, and most of them are shitty lujvo anyway.
22 Jan 2010 01:41:26 < lindar> Can I remove the ones that aren't actually in the vlaste?
22 Jan 2010 01:43:05 -!- Arla [n=Niddler@h45n4c1o253.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lojban
22 Jan 2010 01:43:41 < lindar> Meep?
22 Jan 2010 01:44:38 < mathw> But back to the original trigger
22 Jan 2010 01:44:43 <@Broca> No, you can't remove lujvo from cf. in the gismu definitions.
22 Jan 2010 01:44:48 < mathw> doi lindar do se zgica'a ma
22 Jan 2010 01:45:33 < lindar> Is there any reason why, considering that those lujvo aren't in usage and aren't even in jbovlaste?
22 Jan 2010 01:46:16 < lindar> lo ro zgica'a
22 Jan 2010 01:47:50 < vensa> Broca: Y?
22 Jan 2010 01:50:41 < lindar> .i mi se zgica'a loi jgita .e loi damri .e loi flani .e loi tabri .e loi pipno .e loi xagri
22 Jan 2010 01:52:53 < lindar> http://dag.github.com/cll/4/5/ <---- If you're interested, read this thoroughly, run every definition through here to make sure it's cool, and then I'd see about adding it to jbovlaste. We like having new entries as long as RLP/Broca approve of them.
22 Jan 2010 01:55:26 < lindar> Thus the word “brivla”, built from the tanru “bridi valsi”, is the same lujvo as “brivalsi”, “bridyvla”, and “bridyvalsi”, each of which uses a different combination of rafsi. <----- I -did not- know this. I thought each could have its own meaning.
22 Jan 2010 01:56:34 <@Broca> lindar: the founders thought those would be useful lujvo, and their meanings are often contrasted with the meaning of the actual gismu.
22 Jan 2010 01:57:04 < lindar> I see. Well then, somebody should add those suggestions to jbovlaste.
22 Jan 2010 01:57:09 <@Broca> I agree with you that in some cases they were wrong, and made rubbish lujvo.
22 Jan 2010 01:57:39 < lindar> Do you think we should add those as real definitions if we're keeping those suggestions in the definitions?
22 Jan 2010 01:58:26 <@Broca> Oh, wait. I was pretty sure “write definitions for the lujvo that are mentioned in the gismu list” was a part of http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/help/howtohelp.html. Guess it's not.
22 Jan 2010 01:58:51 < lindar> xD
22 Jan 2010 01:58:59 <@Broca> Yes. We should write definitions for as many of those lujvo as we can.
22 Jan 2010 01:59:16 <@Broca> If they are unusable, they should be added to “bad valsi”, but not removed outright.
22 Jan 2010 01:59:26 < lindar> vensa: Wanna help us out by tackling any of those definitions? You can run them through here when you have something and we can make sure they work.
22 Jan 2010 01:59:37 < lindar> Where's the bad valsi list? =P
22 Jan 2010 01:59:39 <@Broca> There should be a bureacratic layer before removing those, lest we use potentially useful lujvo.
22 Jan 2010 02:00:01 <@Broca> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/jbovlaste+import:+bad+valsi+lang+en
22 Jan 2010 02:00:06 < vensa> thanks lindar but I think I'll get to that after I've been speaking for at leat 7 months. you, on the other hand, have the proper cred
22 Jan 2010 02:01:16 < vensa> and apparently much free time :P
22 Jan 2010 02:02:37 -!- vensa [i=4d7c290c@gateway/web/freenode/x-hcvfzlrfwjvxqpdl] has left #lojban []
22 Jan 2010 02:02:38 < lindar> Not really. =\
22 Jan 2010 02:02:45 -!- vensa [i=4d7c290c@gateway/web/freenode/x-hcvfzlrfwjvxqpdl] has joined #lojban
22 Jan 2010 02:03:03 < vensa> I have a diff kind of proposition: I would like to propose an experimental series along the lines of "qi qa qu" - meaning being: a pro sumti that referes to the immediately-previous speaker, some speaker before that, and some speaker way before that. "qa" and "qu" could also be used vaguely to refer to things that "can talk", like "le ninmu". what do you think?
22 Jan 2010 02:06:54 <@Broca> Might catch on, but you can't have q in a Lojban word. You'd need xV(')V series, or CV(')V(')V*-series.
22 Jan 2010 02:07:08 < vensa> of course I didn't mean actually using q :)
22 Jan 2010 02:07:29 < vensa> I thought: do'oi\do'oa\do'ou
22 Jan 2010 02:07:40 < vensa> but I'm guessing those arent allowed diphtongs
22 Jan 2010 02:08:17 < lindar> You guess correctly.
22 Jan 2010 02:08:23 < lindar> AU/AI/EI/OI
22 Jan 2010 02:08:28 < vensa> so, what series do you guys propose?
22 Jan 2010 02:08:31 < lindar> ...and initial I/U.
22 Jan 2010 02:08:39 < lindar> What exactly are you trying to do?
22 Jan 2010 02:08:45 < lindar> Could you explain it in Lojban?
22 Jan 2010 02:09:27 < vensa> I find that it is sometimes confusing to use "ri\ra\ru" to refer to ppl because they can be too easily confused with inatimate objects
22 Jan 2010 02:10:05 < vensa> it would also make life alot easier in a multi-participant-conversation like IRC
22 Jan 2010 02:10:07 < lindar> Well, we also have GOhA, KOhA, etc.
22 Jan 2010 02:10:17 < vensa> yeah, but those need assignment
22 Jan 2010 02:10:18 <@Broca> Lojban has no grammatical distinctions between gender, number and animacy, and I suspect a lot of people would like to keep it that way.
22 Jan 2010 02:10:37 < vensa> gender, I can understand - it's sexist
22 Jan 2010 02:10:42 <@Broca> vensa: do you know about letter variables? They don't need assignment.
22 Jan 2010 02:10:48 < vensa> but whats wrong with distinction between things than can\cannot speak
22 Jan 2010 02:11:12 < lindar> We also have {la'e} and {di'u}, which when used in conjunction, are quite useful.
22 Jan 2010 02:11:15 < vensa> yeah... but letter variable can also be confusing if all the ppl's names start with the same letter
22 Jan 2010 02:11:21 <@Broca> It's an arbitrary. We could just as well have a distinction between things that are blue, and those that are not.
22 Jan 2010 02:11:32 <@Broca> An arbitrary distinction, I mean.
22 Jan 2010 02:11:41 < vensa> Broca: I think it's much more fundamental
22 Jan 2010 02:11:46 < lindar> Nah.
22 Jan 2010 02:12:01 < vensa> evidently, english has it in someway: he\she versus it
22 Jan 2010 02:12:12 < lindar> Yeah, and that's something I don't like about English. =D
22 Jan 2010 02:12:12 < vensa> imagine a scenario where several ppl are talking
22 Jan 2010 02:12:13 <@Broca> I agree. Persons and non-persons are fundamental to human cognitive machinery. But it goes against the grain of Lojban.
22 Jan 2010 02:12:17 < vensa> then lindar says something
22 Jan 2010 02:12:23 < vensa> and I say: qi bebna
22 Jan 2010 02:12:59 < vensa> meaning: the person who just spoke is foolish :)
22 Jan 2010 02:13:10 <@Broca> I would just elide the x1 entirely.
22 Jan 2010 02:13:30 < vensa> I'm afraid that's not specific enough
22 Jan 2010 02:13:37 < lindar> >_>
22 Jan 2010 02:13:40 < vensa> maybe I'm saying the whole conversation is foolis
22 Jan 2010 02:13:57 < lindar> If you can explain it in Lojban, then I think we can consider it.
22 Jan 2010 02:14:09 < vensa> what do you mean "explain it in lojban"?
22 Jan 2010 02:14:22 < lindar> I mean define what you want -in Lojban- so we can understand what you mean.
22 Jan 2010 02:14:54 < vensa> i dont get it. the CLL isn't written IN lojban and yet you understand what it means.
22 Jan 2010 02:15:58 < lindar> Yes, and when we come up with new cmavo that can change the grammar like that, we define it in Lojban.
22 Jan 2010 02:16:05 < vensa> how?
22 Jan 2010 02:16:10 < vensa> can you show me an example?
22 Jan 2010 02:16:45 < vensa> q do'uu
22 Jan 2010 02:16:47 < vensa> q do'ua
22 Jan 2010 02:16:49 < vensa> q do'ui
22 Jan 2010 02:16:56 < vensa> oops
22 Jan 2010 02:17:22 < vensa> is that series acceptable diphtong-wise?
22 Jan 2010 02:17:23 < lindar> Uhh, that's confusing in that do'u is an end tag of doi.
22 Jan 2010 02:17:38 < vensa> :(
22 Jan 2010 02:17:45 < vensa> got a diff suggestion?