23 Jan 2010 02:21:19 <@Broca> doi lindar mi dunda do lo nu do jimpe
23 Jan 2010 02:21:35 <@Broca> Or something like that.
23 Jan 2010 02:21:48 < lindar> ...that's a fairly strange concept.
23 Jan 2010 02:22:00 < EnglishGent> can you use the  property-sense could be used for things like 'mi dunda ti Knighthood'
23 Jan 2010 02:22:04 <@Broca> *You* are a fairly strange concept.
23 Jan 2010 02:22:11 < EnglishGent> or 'mi dunda ti state-of-marriage' ?
23 Jan 2010 02:22:29 < lindar> xD
23 Jan 2010 02:22:42 < lindar> I'm rubbing off on you, Broca.
23 Jan 2010 02:22:42  * EnglishGent only done very little lojban so far - I'm sorry Broca - but I cant read your example :|
23 Jan 2010 02:22:59 <@Broca> lindar: how so?
23 Jan 2010 02:23:38 < lindar> "<Broca> *You* are a fairly strange concept." <--- That's something I'd say in a facetiously immature fashion to get a laugh.
23 Jan 2010 02:24:14 <@Broca> Same here. But only to people who understand it for what it is.
23 Jan 2010 02:26:29  * EnglishGent still wondering about the marriage / knighthood examples
23 Jan 2010 02:26:44 < EnglishGent> (sorry - I spend quite a lot of time thinking about semantics - AI background) :)
23 Jan 2010 02:27:15 <@Broca> Excellent, then a lot of Lojban abstractions will intuitively make sense.
23 Jan 2010 02:27:46 <@Broca> {dunda lo ka speni} would perhaps work.
23 Jan 2010 02:28:58 < EnglishGent> how does that translate literally? (I only got as far as basic grammar & 5-6 words of vocab last night)
23 Jan 2010 02:29:30 < EnglishGent> so I can only read that as 'zo'e dunda ? ? ?'
23 Jan 2010 02:29:32 < EnglishGent> :)
23 Jan 2010 02:30:56 < EnglishGent> also - I'm never really awake until after a couple of coffees ... and I'm only part way through #1 right now!
23 Jan 2010 02:31:20 <@Broca> In logician's English, “x gives the property of matrimony”.
23 Jan 2010 02:33:42 < EnglishGent> is lojban based on first or higher order predicate calculi? becuase I understand that the way to ask for a binding that would make a property true is ma - so I could use (I think) 'blanu ma' to mean 'what is blue'
23 Jan 2010 02:33:56 <@Broca> Mainly first-order, but it's somewhat impure.
23 Jan 2010 02:34:05 < EnglishGent> but how do I ask - 'what colour is that?' - does ma quantify over predicates too?
23 Jan 2010 02:34:49 <@Broca> mo is the question-word for predicates.
23 Jan 2010 02:35:11 <@Broca> But the regular way of asking that is “ta skari ma”.
23 Jan 2010 02:36:00 < EnglishGent> okay
23 Jan 2010 02:36:34 < EnglishGent> :)
23 Jan 2010 02:47:48 < lindar> ...co'e
23 Jan 2010 02:56:57 < lindar> I'm SO very confused by this band. "Foxy Shazam"
23 Jan 2010 02:57:10 < lindar> It's like swing metal...
23 Jan 2010 02:57:57 < lindar> It's a rockabilly swing band with doublekicks and downtuned guitars...
23 Jan 2010 02:58:40 <@Broca> Fun!
23 Jan 2010 02:59:17 < lindar> So... Yeah. Do something exciting!
23 Jan 2010 03:04:07 <@Broca> http://www.43folders.com/2009/03/18/get-excited
23 Jan 2010 03:07:58 -!- rossi [n=rossi@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-082.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 03:10:32 < lindar> Sweet.
23 Jan 2010 03:15:02  * lindar dances.
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23 Jan 2010 03:25:26 < nonporous> I've been trying to read "Lojban Reference Grammar" on-line and I'm reading about tanru... the way in which one gismu modifies the other gismu seems to be very ambiguous. I didn't expect this of lojban. Am I missing something or is it really supposed to be unspecified?
23 Jan 2010 03:25:37 < lindar> >_>
23 Jan 2010 03:25:46 < lindar> Please stop using the A-word.
23 Jan 2010 03:25:52 < lindar> *shudders*
23 Jan 2010 03:26:06 < nonporous> ??
23 Jan 2010 03:26:07 < lindar> We mean grammatical ambiguity, not syntactical ambiguity.
23 Jan 2010 03:26:14 < nonporous> oh
23 Jan 2010 03:26:37 < lindar> We're absolutely more than capable of being syntactically ambiguous should the speaker choose to speak in such a manner.
23 Jan 2010 03:26:49 < lindar> However, yes the meaning of a tanru is quite -vague- indeed.
23 Jan 2010 03:27:15 < lindar> It's just a simple association to expand upon the meaning of a word.
23 Jan 2010 03:27:17 < nonporous> Would you say it's semantically, not syntactically, ambiguous?
23 Jan 2010 03:28:01 < lindar> Ah, yes, that's what I meant. =D
23 Jan 2010 03:28:19 < nonporous> allright thanks lol
23 Jan 2010 03:28:40 < lindar> However, I think most of us get extremely sick of hearing the word "ambiguous"/"unambiguous" because so many people misinterpret what we mean by that, even when we specify that it's -grammatically- unambiguous.
23 Jan 2010 03:28:54 < lindar> Continue reading as we have more elaborate/precise ways of describing things.
23 Jan 2010 03:29:08 < nonporous> I don't know if I'm happy about tanru or not...
23 Jan 2010 03:29:11 < lindar> If you have any other questions or need help, please feel free to ask.
23 Jan 2010 03:29:20 < nonporous> Oh I see
23 Jan 2010 03:29:45 < nonporous> I've been learning for two days now, I haven't been introduced to all the structures
23 Jan 2010 03:29:54 < lindar> Whether or not you're happy about tanru doesn't really make a difference, to be honest. We'll still be here whether or not you like how tanru work. Keep reading, though. You haven't covered everything. You're about 5% in and already making judgements. <3
23 Jan 2010 03:29:54 -!- klaid_ [n=klaid@ip68-226-71-131.cl.ri.cox.net] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 03:30:16 < lindar> You'll be really excited when you get to NOI and lujvo.
23 Jan 2010 03:30:35 < nonporous> allright I'll take your word for it
23 Jan 2010 03:30:37 < lindar> It's much more... Unambiguous™.
23 Jan 2010 03:30:55 < lindar> =P
23 Jan 2010 03:30:58 < nonporous> thanks
23 Jan 2010 03:35:35  * lindar ca'o dansu
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23 Jan 2010 03:56:18 < lindar> It's a loooooonely time in Lojbanistan. *sadness*
23 Jan 2010 03:56:19 < lindar> *tumbleweeds roll by*
23 Jan 2010 03:57:02 < EnglishGent> hello lindar :)
23 Jan 2010 03:57:07 < lindar> Do we have any architects or home designers in here by any chance?
23 Jan 2010 03:57:13 < lindar> Oh, hello there!
23 Jan 2010 03:57:48  * EnglishGent wonders why lindar is seeking an architect :)
23 Jan 2010 03:58:59 < lindar> Well, there's a body of reference material joking about Lojbanistan as if it were a real culture. I've made an unofficial Lojbanic folk music style, and I was wondering what an architect or home designer's vision of native jbo architecture would be.
23 Jan 2010 04:02:09  * EnglishGent thinks we should have a signed variant as well
23 Jan 2010 04:02:15 < EnglishGent> for deaf lojbanists
23 Jan 2010 04:02:16 < EnglishGent> :)
23 Jan 2010 04:02:36  * EnglishGent thinking about lojban culture now! :)
23 Jan 2010 04:03:01 < lindar> You're not the first to think of that. =P
23 Jan 2010 04:03:12 < lindar> However, I don't think any formal system has been developed.
23 Jan 2010 04:03:46 < lindar> If you're at all familiar with signed languages, then please take the project. =D I think it would be awesome to have signed Lojban.
23 Jan 2010 04:04:20 < EnglishGent> :)
23 Jan 2010 04:04:40 < EnglishGent> I have a little familiarity - but I need to know more lojban first
23 Jan 2010 04:04:54 < EnglishGent> buy vocab in it is about 5 words & very simple grammar at the moment
23 Jan 2010 04:04:57 < EnglishGent> (as of last night)
23 Jan 2010 04:05:13 < EnglishGent> but - I'd love to contribute a signed version if there isnt one :)
23 Jan 2010 04:05:25 < EnglishGent> buy =my*
23 Jan 2010 04:06:39 < lindar> There isn't one, so please contribute away. We always need help with everything, so pick up a project in progress or start a new one.
23 Jan 2010 04:08:57 < EnglishGent> another thing I'd like to do is translate Tony Buzans SEM^3 memonics system to lojban - thats a more pressing desire
23 Jan 2010 04:09:06 < EnglishGent> as that would both make it easier to learn
23 Jan 2010 04:09:11 < EnglishGent> and provide a beneficial tool
23 Jan 2010 04:09:19 < EnglishGent> (I think anyway) :)
23 Jan 2010 04:09:57 < lindar> Ooooooohhhh....
23 Jan 2010 04:12:40 -!- klaid_ [n=klaid@ip68-226-71-131.cl.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23 Jan 2010 04:12:56 < lindar> http://groups.google.com/group/jbofanva/ I've started a group specifically to centralise translation efforts, so if you'd like to make a new post regarding this, I would be happy to contribute. It makes it easy for everybody to see what kind of terminology that we need so we can come up with appropriate words and phrasings. As an incidental complementary project, I think donri and kribacr are working on reference guides that allow a
23 Jan 2010 04:12:56 < lindar>  user to select a body of terminology (cooking, computers, home, sports, sex, social interactions, music, etc.) and list words and phrases for that set of terminology.
23 Jan 2010 04:13:17 -!- klaid_ [n=klaid@ip68-226-71-131.cl.ri.cox.net] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 04:14:38 < EnglishGent> cool :)
23 Jan 2010 04:16:05 < lindar> So you see, we have a lot of stuff going on, and translating -anything- of an uncovered topic provides us with an insight into what kinds of words we need for different subjects. For example, we didn't have a documented word for "kitchen" until a couple of months ago when I went on a rampage labelling things around my house in Lojban and didn't have a word for 80% of the stuff I was trying to label.
23 Jan 2010 04:16:24 < lindar> Is this psychology/education material?
23 Jan 2010 04:17:23 -!- Slereah [n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-124-15.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 04:18:07 < EnglishGent> mmm? is what? the SEM^3 stuff?
23 Jan 2010 04:18:14  * EnglishGent not sure what your referring to
23 Jan 2010 04:18:25 < lindar> Oh, it's a mind mapping technique?
23 Jan 2010 04:18:52 < lindar> Looks pretty cool and seems to almost be a visual representation of Lojban grammar/thinking.
23 Jan 2010 04:18:58 < EnglishGent> ah.. no - it's a memonic system
23 Jan 2010 04:19:17 < EnglishGent> um - let me explain in pm - I dont want to spam the channel
23 Jan 2010 04:19:57 < lindar> *mnemonic
23 Jan 2010 04:20:07 < lindar> "neh-MOH-nihk" or summink like that. >_>
23 Jan 2010 04:20:59 < lindar>  /nɪˈmɒnɪk/ There we go. IPA FTW!!
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23 Jan 2010 04:22:42 < lindar> xD
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23 Jan 2010 04:53:57 < vensa> coi rodo
23 Jan 2010 04:57:16 < vensa> la mambyl pe mi za'o fliba vau oiro'e
23 Jan 2010 04:58:07 < vensa> xu su'odo ka'e stidi da
23 Jan 2010 04:59:29 < lindar> ?
23 Jan 2010 05:01:58 < vensa> ma do na se jimpe
23 Jan 2010 05:02:39 < lindar> nu menli srera
23 Jan 2010 05:03:11 < vensa> lenu menli srera pe ma
23 Jan 2010 05:03:12 < lindar> .i mi ka'e stidi .iku'i mi na kakne lo nu stidi
23 Jan 2010 05:03:13 < lindar> =P
23 Jan 2010 05:04:08 < vensa> If you're going to correct my Lojban. please do so in english as I am still too new for this. thanks
23 Jan 2010 05:05:46 < vensa> I don't understand the paradox in your sentence
23 Jan 2010 05:06:15 < vensa> "you are capable of suggesting. but you are not able to suggest" ?
23 Jan 2010 05:08:40 < lindar> You need to reread the definitions of {ka'e} and {kakne}.
23 Jan 2010 05:09:01 < lindar> Long story short, they're different meanings.
23 Jan 2010 05:09:54 < lindar> {ka'e} implies innate capability (it's a time tense, I believe) that is possibly unrealised. I'm capable of making a suggestions, but I am not able to make a suggestion (as to how you should solve your problem).
23 Jan 2010 05:10:24 < lindar> If you could please explain the details of your problems with Mumble then I may be able to help you.
23 Jan 2010 05:10:35 < Twey> Not a time tense, an actualisation specifier
23 Jan 2010 05:10:42 < Twey> Class PUhO
23 Jan 2010 05:11:20 < vensa> shouldn't you have said: "mi na ca kakne lo nu stidi" to be a bit more clear\helpful?
23 Jan 2010 05:12:18 < vensa> I keep getting "Server connection failed: Connection timed out"
23 Jan 2010 05:12:32 < vensa> I haven't been able to connect for about a week :(
23 Jan 2010 05:13:58 < lindar> Why would I need to specify time tense?
23 Jan 2010 05:14:15 < vensa> to be clearer that "you are not able to suggest NOW"
23 Jan 2010 05:14:34 < vensa> otherwise you are just saying that "you are not able to suggest (in general) - could mean anything
23 Jan 2010 05:14:43 < vensa> you dont NEED
23 Jan 2010 05:14:45 < lindar> >_>
23 Jan 2010 05:14:47 < vensa> you could
23 Jan 2010 05:16:30 < lindar> I shall rephrase: {.i mi ca ca'a na kakne lo nu mi stidi vau kei ku vau ca lo cabdei}
23 Jan 2010 05:17:03 < vensa> hehehe
23 Jan 2010 05:17:09 < vensa> I love when you over-terminate
23 Jan 2010 05:17:53 < vensa> anyway, thanks for pointing out the diff kakne\ka'e
23 Jan 2010 05:18:03 -!- Dessous [n=DaMan@a88-115-70-173.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 05:18:52 < lindar> Clearly your motive in learning this language is to be able to be as specific as possible when speaking. You don't need to learn Lojban to do that. You could actually speak proper English and then you'd be able to express whatever you want in as much detail as you'd like, but you'd sound like a pompous/posh ass. Coincidentally, being explicit about everything in the world while speaking Lojban sounds just as stupid.
23 Jan 2010 05:20:04 < vensa> lindar: obviously you're a black&white kind of person. it's either "zo'e co'e zo'e" or "vau kei ku vau" with you.
23 Jan 2010 05:20:10 < lindar> I think the rule is that if you -can- omit it and still be understood, then you're probably good off. Context is just as important in being Unambiguous™.
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23 Jan 2010 05:20:27 < vensa> well obviously you WERENT understood
23 Jan 2010 05:20:41 < lindar> Okay, and that's on the part of the listener. =D
23 Jan 2010 05:20:42 < vensa> who's to say if that's because of you giving too little info or me being too stupid (?)
23 Jan 2010 05:20:49 < vensa> perhaps we need a second opinion
23 Jan 2010 05:21:18 < lindar> It's me to say, especially since I had to explain the difference between ka'e and kakne. =P
23 Jan 2010 05:21:24 < Twey> The problem is not that English can't be unambiguous, but that it often takes whole paragraphs in English to achieve the level of unambiguity available in a single sentence in Lojban
23 Jan 2010 05:21:25 < lindar> <3<3<3 It's okay, I forgive you! <3<3<3
23 Jan 2010 05:21:53 < Twey> And it requires considerably more in-depth understanding of the *content* of the text to accurately decipher
23 Jan 2010 05:22:07 < vensa> .ie
23 Jan 2010 05:22:17 < lindar> I'd like to point something out to you, though.
23 Jan 2010 05:22:35 < vensa> .iei'i
23 Jan 2010 05:22:40 < lericson> YOUR FACE
23 Jan 2010 05:22:40 < lindar> "<vensa> la mambyl pe mi za'o fliba vau oiro'e" <----from context I can assume that this problem is happening right now, and is in fact, an ongoing problem.
23 Jan 2010 05:22:41 < lericson> LOL
23 Jan 2010 05:22:55 < vensa> it IS
23 Jan 2010 05:23:04 < vensa> it's an ongiong problem
23 Jan 2010 05:23:05 < Twey> On the whole you'll find, too, that people are less precise in informal mediums such as IRC than they might be in text, where verbosity and speed of reply is less of a problem
23 Jan 2010 05:23:11 < lindar> Therefore I assume we're speaking in the present tense. So if we've already established a tense for speaking, why do I need to restate the tense?
23 Jan 2010 05:23:16 < Twey> s/text/prose/
23 Jan 2010 05:23:28 < Twey> lindar: You can actually make that explicit using ‘ki’
23 Jan 2010 05:23:43 < lindar> More importantly, you've already stated the subject, so why would I need to keep repeating the subject as well? =D
23 Jan 2010 05:23:54 < vensa> how would you guys interpret "iei'i"?
23 Jan 2010 05:24:01 < Twey> vensa: As invalid nonsense
23 Jan 2010 05:24:02 < lindar> Therefore, I could just say {.i na kakne}.
23 Jan 2010 05:24:10 < lindar> Ditto.
23 Jan 2010 05:24:20 < Twey> My first parse was ‘.i .ei'i’
23 Jan 2010 05:24:35 < vensa> what about ".ie.i'i"?
23 Jan 2010 05:24:40 < Twey> But I don't know if ‘.ei'i’ is a valid cmavo form
23 Jan 2010 05:24:51 < Twey> Yeah, I figured that out shortly afterwards ☺
23 Jan 2010 05:25:05 < vensa> so how would you interpret that?
23 Jan 2010 05:25:06 < lericson> is that a shield?
23 Jan 2010 05:25:25 < lericson> oh happy face
23 Jan 2010 05:25:48 < lindar> Uhhh... I would assume you agreed with something and you felt togetherness(?) about something.
23 Jan 2010 05:25:58 < lericson> hey guys, you're huge.
23 Jan 2010 05:26:08 < lindar> o_O
23 Jan 2010 05:26:19 < lericson> (hold on, uploading.)
23 Jan 2010 05:26:21 < vensa> I wanted to express "I agree with all of you"
23 Jan 2010 05:26:41 < lericson> holy batman, now you're even larger!
23 Jan 2010 05:26:53 < vensa> lericson is having halucinations
23 Jan 2010 05:27:02 < vensa> uudai
23 Jan 2010 05:27:07 < lericson> this will all make sense to you in a moment
23 Jan 2010 05:27:35 < timonator> i already knew i'm huge
23 Jan 2010 05:27:43 < timonator> though i wonder how you found out just now
23 Jan 2010 05:27:52  * Twey is huge in Japan.
23 Jan 2010 05:27:55 < lericson> http://bsg.lericson.se/jing/ab1e6c553c.png and http://bsg.lericson.se/jing/5fa21893e8.png and normally
23 Jan 2010 05:27:58 < lericson> http://bsg.lericson.se/jing/2b889ea17b.png
23 Jan 2010 05:28:25 < vensa> lericson: exactly HOW BORED are you???
23 Jan 2010 05:28:44 < lericson> I'm not sure.
23 Jan 2010 05:28:53 < lericson> Give me an exact scale to measure boredom in :-)))))
23 Jan 2010 05:29:36 < vensa> from 1 - being totally immersed in a fascinating subject\movie\game\sex to 100 - uploading pics of IRC screenshots
23 Jan 2010 05:29:54 < lericson> I'm immersed in my IRC client
23 Jan 2010 05:30:24  * vensa nods and goes "tse tse tse"
23 Jan 2010 05:30:43 < lericson> kind sir, http://9.media.bustedtees.com/bustedtees/mf/2/b/bustedtees.acf0f3e2b8f34292a464169bbd62fdd1.jpg
23 Jan 2010 05:31:28 < vensa> wtf? r u trying to come out?
23 Jan 2010 05:33:47 < lindar> xD
23 Jan 2010 05:33:47 < lindar> He looks kinda bisexual in that picture.
23 Jan 2010 05:34:25 <@Broca> lericson: oh no, I accidentally smiled at that t-shirt! He must think that I'm gay!
23 Jan 2010 05:34:27 < vensa> but he's smiling
23 Jan 2010 05:35:01 < vensa> I've got a better Tshirt: "If you can read this - you're gay"
23 Jan 2010 05:35:05 < lericson> Broca: He surely does.
23 Jan 2010 05:36:50 < Twey> Broca: If you're smiling, you probably are
23 Jan 2010 05:37:08 < Twey> Unless it's a fake smile.  Then you're a liar.
23 Jan 2010 05:37:16 < lericson> And hence fake gay.
23 Jan 2010 05:41:48 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 05:44:58 < vensa> tezu'e lonu mi djuno kei po'o xo lo vi prenu cu mitpavycinglepre
23 Jan 2010 05:46:02 -!- LogicalDash [n=LogicalD@ool-4355be95.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 05:46:14 < vensa> ta'o ri cu le traji clani lujvo noi mi djuno
23 Jan 2010 05:48:53 < vensa> {ri=>le valsi be ri} (?)
23 Jan 2010 05:48:59 < vensa> where's lindar when you need him
23 Jan 2010 05:49:27 < lindar> ?
23 Jan 2010 05:49:40 < vensa> thank god lindar: fix my rotten lojban
23 Jan 2010 05:49:46 < lericson> lindar lindar in sländor i filtar
23 Jan 2010 05:50:00 < vensa> huh?
23 Jan 2010 05:50:14 < Twey> vensa: Your sentence has no selbri
23 Jan 2010 05:50:17 < lericson> lindar is a present tense verb in Swedish, sorry
23 Jan 2010 05:50:22 < Twey> What does it mean?
23 Jan 2010 05:50:25 < lindar> I haven't a clue what you're trying to say.
23 Jan 2010 05:50:28 < vensa> which one?
23 Jan 2010 05:50:49 < lindar> doi la vensa
23 Jan 2010 05:50:54 < Twey> vensa: 13:46:14 < vensa> ta'o ri cu le traji clani lujvo noi mi djuno
23 Jan 2010 05:51:02 < lericson> Umm, wrap in the sense of wrapping a box with plastic
23 Jan 2010 05:51:10 < vensa> Twey: was the one b4 that ok?
23 Jan 2010 05:51:18 < Twey> And you can't put ‘cu’ unless it's followed by a selbri
23 Jan 2010 05:51:27 < Twey> I didn't see it
23 Jan 2010 05:51:29 < Twey> What was that?
23 Jan 2010 05:51:40 < vensa> Twey: oops.. then drop the "le"
23 Jan 2010 05:51:52 < vensa> tezu'e lonu mi djuno kei po'o xo lo vi prenu cu mitpavycinglepre
23 Jan 2010 05:52:07 < vensa> ta'o le valsi be ri cu traji clani lujvo noi mi djuno
23 Jan 2010 05:52:45 < Twey> vensa: You can't attach ‘noi’ to a selbri
23 Jan 2010 05:52:50 < Twey> Only to a sumti
23 Jan 2010 05:53:16 < vensa> hmm
23 Jan 2010 05:53:24 < lindar> I still don't know what you're trying to say.
23 Jan 2010 05:53:49 < Twey> ‘lo vi valsi noi lujvo cu traji lo ka clani lo se djuno be mi’
23 Jan 2010 05:53:52 < LogicalDash> masturbate
23 Jan 2010 05:54:07 < Twey> ‘lo vi valsi cu lujvo gi'e traji lo ka clani lo se djuno be mi’
23 Jan 2010 05:54:15 < vensa> thanks
23 Jan 2010 05:55:00 < vensa> that lost a bit of the original meaning but I get the point
23 Jan 2010 05:55:17 < lindar> What exactly were you trying to say?
23 Jan 2010 05:55:20 < vensa> you said: "it's the longest "valsi" I know. I wanted to say the longest "lujvo"
23 Jan 2010 05:55:21 < vensa> nm
23 Jan 2010 05:55:41 < Twey> I said ‘it's the longest word which is a lujvo’
23 Jan 2010 05:55:42 < lindar> No, he said (initially) "This valsi, which is a lujvo..."
23 Jan 2010 05:55:51 < Twey> Because that was what you seemed to be trying to say
23 Jan 2010 05:55:56 < vensa> Twey: oh... right
23 Jan 2010 05:56:00 < vensa> then it's perfect
23 Jan 2010 05:56:02 < Twey> You could also just say ‘lo vi lujvo cu traji lo ka clani lo se djuno be mi’
23 Jan 2010 05:56:08 < Twey> Since lujvo are always words anyway
23 Jan 2010 05:56:12 < vensa> but I think you need poi
23 Jan 2010 05:56:29 < Twey> If that was your intention
23 Jan 2010 05:56:33 < vensa> or that last one
23 Jan 2010 05:56:43 < vensa> as I said: I got the idea. thanks
23 Jan 2010 05:57:00 < Twey> There's always ‘ti traji lo ka clani loi lujvo poi mi djuno’ too
23 Jan 2010 05:57:01 < vensa> clearly, lindar still hasnt gotten the original concept trying to be stated... poor lindar
23 Jan 2010 05:57:04 < vensa> :P
23 Jan 2010 05:57:15 < lindar> No, I got it as soon as Twey said it in Lojban.
23 Jan 2010 05:57:19 < lindar> It's you I didn't understand. <3
23 Jan 2010 05:57:34 < vensa> [15:56] <Twey> ‘lo vi valsi
23 Jan 2010 05:57:42 < vensa> [15:57] <lindar> What exactly were you trying to say?
23 Jan 2010 05:57:51 < vensa> in my book 15:57 comes after 15:56 :P
23 Jan 2010 05:58:06 < Twey> 13:53:24 < lindar> I still don't know what you're trying to say.
23 Jan 2010 05:58:06 < Twey> 13:53:49 < Twey> ‘lo vi valsi noi lujvo cu traji lo ka clani lo se djuno be mi’
23 Jan 2010 05:58:09 < Twey> You have lag.
23 Jan 2010 05:58:12 < lindar> xD
23 Jan 2010 05:58:14 < timonator> everybody does
23 Jan 2010 05:58:21 < Twey> Indeed :þ
23 Jan 2010 05:58:31 < vensa> no twey, that;s an earlier claim of his
23 Jan 2010 05:58:32  * lindar ⁵ Twey
23 Jan 2010 05:58:46 < vensa> [15:55] <lindar> I still don't know what you're trying to say.
23 Jan 2010 05:59:02 < vensa> cool high-five...
23 Jan 2010 05:59:05 < vensa> how'd you do that?
23 Jan 2010 05:59:10 < Twey> Compose ^ 5
23 Jan 2010 05:59:10 < lindar> Use Linux?
23 Jan 2010 05:59:12 < Twey> ⁵
23 Jan 2010 05:59:17 < vensa> fuck it
23 Jan 2010 05:59:18 < lindar> =P
23 Jan 2010 05:59:23 < vensa> im not switching to linux just for that
23 Jan 2010 05:59:27 < Twey> It's a cute visual pun.  I may have invented it.  :þ
23 Jan 2010 05:59:41 < lindar> vensa, are you a mac user?
23 Jan 2010 05:59:46 < vensa> no
23 Jan 2010 05:59:53 < vensa> mi'e lo'e "use"
23 Jan 2010 05:59:58 < vensa> r
23 Jan 2010 06:00:07 < lindar> What do you use?
23 Jan 2010 06:00:15 < vensa> mi'e lo'e pilno
23 Jan 2010 06:00:23 < vensa> windows... duh
23 Jan 2010 06:01:03 < lindar> 3? 95? 98? NT4? ME? CE? 2000? XP? Vista? 7? What hardware?
23 Jan 2010 06:01:04 < Twey> ‘mi pilno la .uindoz.’
23 Jan 2010 06:01:19 < Twey> ‘mi'e pilno be la .uindoz.’ (probably for comic effect)
23 Jan 2010 06:01:22 < vensa> lindar: what does it matter
23 Jan 2010 06:01:28 < Twey> Curiosity, I guess
23 Jan 2010 06:01:30 < lindar> Making conversation.
23 Jan 2010 06:01:35 < lindar> You don't need to get defensive.
23 Jan 2010 06:01:40 < vensa> curiosity killed the fluffy teddybear
23 Jan 2010 06:01:41 < lindar> It's not like we're comparing dick sizes.
23 Jan 2010 06:01:50 < vensa> hehe
23 Jan 2010 06:02:01 < lindar> ((I guarantee you mine is bigger.))
23 Jan 2010 06:02:14 < vensa> if you're dick is anything like your OS.......
23 Jan 2010 06:02:30 < lindar> Then it's more powerful and efficient?
23 Jan 2010 06:02:34 < lindar> Easier to use?
23 Jan 2010 06:02:37 < vensa> my "OS" is the most widely used by WOMEN :P
23 Jan 2010 06:02:39 < lindar> Doesn't crash?
23 Jan 2010 06:02:47 < lindar> Yeah, and what do I care?
23 Jan 2010 06:02:52 < lindar> I have sex with men.
23 Jan 2010 06:02:52 < vensa> easier??? pah
23 Jan 2010 06:03:38 < lindar> =D I have no idea how homosexuality equates to my preference for Linux, but you're an idiot either way.
23 Jan 2010 06:04:05 < vensa> I think a they should do a study
23 Jan 2010 06:04:15 < vensa> sexual-tendency vs OS-tendency
23 Jan 2010 06:05:06 < lindar> Yeah, that could only end in heart break, because then Mac would realise who its user base really is and start making some -reeeaaaally- weird products.
23 Jan 2010 06:05:20 < vensa> hehehe
23 Jan 2010 06:05:22 < lindar> "Introducing the new iDouche. It lets everybody know how much of a douche you are from up to three km away."
23 Jan 2010 06:05:22 < lericson> Mac's not a company, Apple is.
23 Jan 2010 06:05:25 < vensa> what user base would that be?
23 Jan 2010 06:05:34 < lindar> >_>
23 Jan 2010 06:05:34 < vensa> hehehe
23 Jan 2010 06:05:35 < lindar> Whatever.
23 Jan 2010 06:05:38 < lindar> Mac/Apple
23 Jan 2010 06:05:47 < vensa> Apple is fruit lericson
23 Jan 2010 06:06:00 < vensa> jeez, I thought by now youd know that, being on Lojban and all
23 Jan 2010 06:06:35 < lindar> "The iFag. Now you can rectally insert your favourite Lady Gaga tracks directly into your rectum."
23 Jan 2010 06:06:51 < vensa> lindar: you should be an inventor
23 Jan 2010 06:07:03 < vensa> I'm hearing loads of good start-ups
23 Jan 2010 06:07:04 < lindar> It's pretty much elitist self-important douchebags that do things for the sake of being different, and flamers.
23 Jan 2010 06:07:45 < vensa> so are you being gay just for the sake of being different?
23 Jan 2010 06:07:58 < lindar> s/flamers/extremely effeminate homosexual men/
23 Jan 2010 06:08:15 < lindar> vensa, I don't use Mac, I use Linux. >_>
23 Jan 2010 06:08:22 < lericson> Now see, actually, the only pricks in the whole OS wars are people who stubbornly insist that every OS X user is either a douchebag or otherwise.
23 Jan 2010 06:08:25 < vensa> whats the diff?
23 Jan 2010 06:08:37 < vensa> both are sideline OSs
23 Jan 2010 06:08:47 < lindar> Really?
23 Jan 2010 06:09:04 < lindar> You're really trying to defend Microsoft's Windows Operating System?
23 Jan 2010 06:09:20 < vensa> I dont have to
23 Jan 2010 06:09:24 < vensa> the numbers speak for themselves
23 Jan 2010 06:09:28 < lindar> >_>
23 Jan 2010 06:09:37  * vensa busts lindar's fuse :P
23 Jan 2010 06:09:41 < Twey> Numbers never speak for themselves
23 Jan 2010 06:09:47  * Twey points at VHS.
23 Jan 2010 06:09:55 < Twey> And… English
23 Jan 2010 06:10:04 < lindar> xD!
23 Jan 2010 06:10:09 < timonator> windows can suck my dick. if something goes wrong with my system i want to know what went wrong, not that something went wrong
23 Jan 2010 06:10:15  * vensa sneaks out of this exploding debate before it's too late
23 Jan 2010 06:10:26 < lindar> vensa, you said the wrong thing at the wrong time.
23 Jan 2010 06:10:31 < lindar> It's not a debate, it's everybody against you.
23 Jan 2010 06:10:46 < lindar> We all use *nix or BSD.
23 Jan 2010 06:10:46 < lericson> Linux as a desktop sucks because a desktop is supposed to be the most versatile, able stack of software you can get. Linux isn't.
23 Jan 2010 06:10:51 < timonator> if you want to use your windows, fine, but don't expect any help whatsoever from me
23 Jan 2010 06:11:18 < lericson> s/to be/to be built on/
23 Jan 2010 06:11:19 < timonator> unless you're such nice company that i could actually stand fixing your shit
23 Jan 2010 06:11:50  * lindar gets the feeling vensa is trolling.
23 Jan 2010 06:11:53 < Twey> lericson: Of course, no such thing exists
23 Jan 2010 06:12:00 < Twey> Therefore, desktops suck.  End of debate.
23 Jan 2010 06:12:30 < lericson> Yes, let us begin the era of tabletops.
23 Jan 2010 06:13:03 < vensa> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) <-- sounds like a great hobby for me
23 Jan 2010 06:13:19 < vensa> I do often like arguing just for the sake of argument
23 Jan 2010 06:17:20 < lindar> vensa: Close your eyes and picture this scene for a moment: You're standing at a shorefront, the smell of salt and ammonia fills the air. You walk out on to the pier and realise that you're standing suspended above an ocean of piss. Now tell me, do you feel the sudden urge to piss into this ocean of piss?
23 Jan 2010 06:17:36 < lindar> That's what trolling the internet is.
23 Jan 2010 06:18:02 < lericson> Your analogy lacks one part
23 Jan 2010 06:18:17 < lericson> This pissing of yours into the ocean, you knew, would be very fun to watch.
23 Jan 2010 06:18:58 < Twey> I've seen some amusing trolls.
23 Jan 2010 06:19:05 < Twey> They're rare, but they do exist.
23 Jan 2010 06:19:31 < timonator> they are the only trolls allowed to exist
23 Jan 2010 06:19:38 < timonator> all others may as well go die in a fire
23 Jan 2010 06:19:38 -!- ivan [n=ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
23 Jan 2010 06:19:52 < lericson> the problem with a troll, you see, is that they come from the fire.
23 Jan 2010 06:20:18 < Twey> The problem with trolls is that they all think they're funny, when in fact the majority are just severely annoying.  ;)
23 Jan 2010 06:20:38 < lindar> Yeah, vensa.
23 Jan 2010 06:21:05 -!- ivan [n=ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 06:21:24 < lindar> lericson, no, it's actually fire that kills the trolls. If you don't kill it with fire, they regenerate their health. It's -ORCS- that come from the fire.
23 Jan 2010 06:21:28 < lericson> The problem with trolls is that people are so retarded so as to always feed the troll
23 Jan 2010 06:22:06 < lindar> Unfortunately the only fire you have on the internets is a swift MIGHTY BOOT and IPBAN.
23 Jan 2010 06:22:53 < lericson> I have sea cucumbers also
23 Jan 2010 06:23:55 < lericson> RAWR ARGH I need nicotine de'a jundi
23 Jan 2010 06:25:00 < lindar> YAAAAAAY!
23 Jan 2010 06:25:48 < lindar> Yep.
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23 Jan 2010 07:53:12 < lindar> .
23 Jan 2010 07:54:24 -!- LogicalDash [n=LogicalD@ool-4355be95.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Nice Scotty, now beam my clothes up too!"]
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23 Jan 2010 08:04:32 < cmacis> coi rodo
23 Jan 2010 08:04:45 < lindar> coi
23 Jan 2010 08:04:48 < cmacis> mi zvati lo zdani be loi mi pendo .i ku'i ri sipna
23 Jan 2010 08:06:04 < lindar> .i .uudai ko kelci loi skami selkei pe le pendo
23 Jan 2010 08:06:38 < cmacis> .u'i mi ca pilno lo mi skami
23 Jan 2010 08:06:54 < cmacis> .i mi kelci lo mlatu
23 Jan 2010 08:08:45 < cmacis> Well, we're staring at each other across the room. He nommed my hand yesterday
23 Jan 2010 08:09:02 < lindar> xD
23 Jan 2010 08:09:29 < cmacis> And I stood on him because he got under my feet
23 Jan 2010 08:11:36 -!- xlaid [n=klaid@ip68-226-71-131.cl.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23 Jan 2010 08:12:12 -!- xlaid [n=klaid@ip68-226-71-131.cl.ri.cox.net] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 08:17:30 < Twey> Aww.
23 Jan 2010 08:17:33 < Twey> Poor thing
23 Jan 2010 08:18:21 < cmacis> Shouldn't have got under my feet then, dozy thing]
23 Jan 2010 08:18:39 < Twey> Heh
23 Jan 2010 08:18:54 < Twey> ‘I'm sorry I kicked you, but you shouldn't have put your arse where my foot was swinging’
23 Jan 2010 08:19:22 -!- durka42 [n=Adium@d252.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit ["Leaving."]
23 Jan 2010 08:19:41 < lindar> xD
23 Jan 2010 08:21:12 < timonator> unfortunately most animals have a hard time understanding that
23 Jan 2010 08:21:17  * timonator goes grocery shopping
23 Jan 2010 08:21:46 < lindar> >_< I should do that as well.
23 Jan 2010 08:27:34 < lindar> -_-
23 Jan 2010 08:34:40 -!- selbeimanti [n=sarefo@dslb-094-220-241-105.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
23 Jan 2010 08:50:28 < timonator> forgot my shopping list, still got everything i wanted
23 Jan 2010 08:50:46 < timonator> ("everything i wanted" is not to be confused with "everything i needed", though)
23 Jan 2010 08:57:35 -!- Melvar [n=melvar@dslb-092-072-152-207.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 09:02:53  * lindar is ready to sleep now.e
23 Jan 2010 09:02:56 < lindar> *sleep*
23 Jan 2010 09:03:01 < timonator> good night lindar
23 Jan 2010 09:03:05 < timonator> ko cinsne
23 Jan 2010 09:15:23 <@Broca> Wow, “cinsne” isn't in Jbovlaste.
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23 Jan 2010 09:32:45 < vensa> coi rodo .i le mi fonxa puzi se snasni
23 Jan 2010 09:36:39 < timonator> u'i
23 Jan 2010 09:36:49 < timonator> zo snasni mi se nelci
23 Jan 2010 09:40:35 < vensa> how would you say "the phone RANG"?
23 Jan 2010 09:40:42 < vensa> couldn't find anything better :(
23 Jan 2010 09:41:03 < timonator> is snasni defined?
23 Jan 2010 09:41:08 < vensa> yes
23 Jan 2010 09:41:27 < vensa> <makfa> lujvo {snasni} from tanru {sance sinxa} glossing to "acoustic signal", "sound signal", "beep"   x1 is a sound/acoustic signal, produced/emitted by x2 and meaning x3 to x4 (listener).
23 Jan 2010 09:41:30 < timonator> i think se sansni is pretty perfect
23 Jan 2010 09:41:49 < vensa> really? sounds quite far from perfect to me, but "you're the boss" :)
23 Jan 2010 09:42:12 < timonator> it does?
23 Jan 2010 09:42:23 < vensa> well, because of the place structure maybe
23 Jan 2010 09:42:30 < vensa> I would expect "x1 rings...."
23 Jan 2010 09:43:05 < timonator> se snasni has "x1 makes sound/signal x2 meaning x3 to x4"
23 Jan 2010 09:43:11 < timonator> what's not to like about that?
23 Jan 2010 09:43:17 < vensa> hmmm
23 Jan 2010 09:43:31 < vensa> I guess so
23 Jan 2010 09:43:43 < vensa> oh well... gotta run. thanks :)
23 Jan 2010 09:44:46 < timonator> bye :)
23 Jan 2010 09:56:31 < rossi> bye vensa
23 Jan 2010 09:57:46 < omologos> co'o
23 Jan 2010 10:06:19 -!- djanatyn-fonxa [n=djanatyn@173-115-35-190.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 10:08:17 < djanatyn-fonxa> coi
23 Jan 2010 10:20:11 -!- EnglishGent [n=EnglishG@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 10:23:03 <@rlpowell> espeak has jbo capability.
23 Jan 2010 10:23:06 <@rlpowell> Did anyone else know this?
23 Jan 2010 10:23:43 < djanatyn-fonxa> No way.
23 Jan 2010 10:23:49 < djanatyn-fonxa> (What is espeak?) :)
23 Jan 2010 10:25:25 <@rlpowell> TTS
23 Jan 2010 10:25:52 < djanatyn-fonxa> O_o
23 Jan 2010 10:26:07  * djanatyn-fonxa knew only of a java TTS
23 Jan 2010 10:26:14 < djanatyn-fonxa> (with jbo)
23 Jan 2010 10:26:14 < EnglishGent> coi! :)
23 Jan 2010 10:26:20 < djanatyn-fonxa> coi glico
23 Jan 2010 10:28:47 < EnglishGent> TTS? :)
23 Jan 2010 10:29:18 < timonator> rlpowell: it was on the mailing list some time ago actually
23 Jan 2010 10:29:24 <@rlpowell> Text To Speech
23 Jan 2010 10:29:27 <@rlpowell> timonator: Yes, I discovered this.
23 Jan 2010 10:29:32 < timonator> :)
23 Jan 2010 10:48:58 -!- foaly [n=root@failbox.co.cc] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 10:50:00 < timonator> coi lo pilno be la fliba tanxe
23 Jan 2010 10:50:19 -!- durka42 [n=Adium@d252.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 10:51:29 < Twey> .y.
23 Jan 2010 10:55:54 < EnglishGent> coi Twey :)
23 Jan 2010 10:56:10 < Twey> coi .djent.
23 Jan 2010 10:57:19 < timonator> foaly: even though you may not have realized, i greeted you :)
23 Jan 2010 11:09:09 < Melvar> Twey, did you read my answer around 19 hours ago?
23 Jan 2010 11:15:24 < Twey> .yy. na go'i .i ji'a facki na'e kakne
23 Jan 2010 11:17:16 < Melvar> .i xu do djica lenu mi rapli
23 Jan 2010 11:18:15 < Melvar> su
23 Jan 2010 11:18:44 < djanatyn-fonxa> mi djica lo nu klama
23 Jan 2010 11:24:07 < Melvar> .i xu do djica lenu lenu mi danfu cusku cu rapli
23 Jan 2010 11:25:15 < Melvar> …I doubt that was correct, really. Too much in it that I haven’t yet actually learned.
23 Jan 2010 11:31:43 -!- Sonja [n=sonjaaa@76-10-173-74.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 11:33:03 < uorygl> What's the fliba tanxe?
23 Jan 2010 11:33:15 < Sonja> is le something similar to lo...ku?
23 Jan 2010 11:33:17 < djanatyn-fonxa> FAIL BOX
23 Jan 2010 11:33:21 < uorygl> Oh, is it the--yeah, that.
23 Jan 2010 11:33:38 < djanatyn-fonxa> KO KLAMA LO FLIBA TANXE
23 Jan 2010 11:33:42 < timonator> Sonja: le ... ku is similar to lo ... ku
23 Jan 2010 11:33:43 < djanatyn-fonxa> ;)
23 Jan 2010 11:33:52 < djanatyn-fonxa> xorlo!
23 Jan 2010 11:34:01 < timonator> grammatically
23 Jan 2010 11:34:23 < Melvar> What is “xorlo”?
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23 Jan 2010 11:35:19 < djanatyn-fonxa> xorlo = (le = lo)
23 Jan 2010 11:35:41 < djanatyn-fonxa> Not really. It makes lo, le, loi, and a bunch of other words much simpler.
23 Jan 2010 11:37:39 -!- varkiclaflo`i [n=home@adsl-162-133-175.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 11:38:15 < Melvar> The “LE”?
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23 Jan 2010 11:39:45 < varkiclaflo`i> coi rodo
23 Jan 2010 11:43:55 < sam_tceipn_> coi sonja .i uinai mi na kakne lenu klama le ctufau be do bei fo lo pa'arbau
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23 Jan 2010 11:49:39 < varkiclaflo`i> mi troci lenu cilre fi lo pa'arbau
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23 Jan 2010 11:51:00 < Sonja> what is the difference between le/ku and lo/ku ?
23 Jan 2010 11:51:31 < varkiclaflo`i> probably the same as the difference between le and lo
23 Jan 2010 11:51:52 < varkiclaflo`i> "le" means what you choose to describe as such
23 Jan 2010 11:52:01 < varkiclaflo`i> and "lo" what really is
23 Jan 2010 11:52:11 < Sonja> lo is "one who is ..." (makes the verb a noun)
23 Jan 2010 11:52:12 < varkiclaflo`i> wait.
23 Jan 2010 11:52:16 < varkiclaflo`i> soory
23 Jan 2010 11:52:19 < varkiclaflo`i> *sorry.
23 Jan 2010 11:52:30 < varkiclaflo`i> misread "ku" for something else
23 Jan 2010 11:52:33 < Sonja> le means "one whom i consider to be..." ?
23 Jan 2010 11:52:43 < varkiclaflo`i> yes
23 Jan 2010 11:53:04  * varkiclaflo`i is glad that what he said still makes sense
23 Jan 2010 11:54:10 < varkiclaflo`i> which allows statements such as:
23 Jan 2010 11:54:17 < varkiclaflo`i> le ninmu cu nanmu
23 Jan 2010 11:54:27 < varkiclaflo`i> (not my example(
23 Jan 2010 11:54:29 < varkiclaflo`i> *)
23 Jan 2010 11:54:57 < varkiclaflo`i> but not "lo gerku cu mlatu"
23 Jan 2010 11:55:14 < varkiclaflo`i> unless you have a strange dog-cat hybrid "thing"
23 Jan 2010 11:55:44 < nonporous> old nickelodeon show
23 Jan 2010 11:55:59 < nonporous> anyone remember "catdog"?
23 Jan 2010 11:56:29 < Sonja> what does cu mean?
23 Jan 2010 11:56:31 < varkiclaflo`i> yes. somewhat unfortunately
23 Jan 2010 11:56:56 < varkiclaflo`i> seperates the sumti before a selbri from the selbri
23 Jan 2010 11:57:20 < Sonja> oĥ
23 Jan 2010 11:57:28 < varkiclaflo`i> only plays a grammatical role. doesn't _mean_ anything
23 Jan 2010 11:57:34 < timonator> i remember catdog u'i
23 Jan 2010 11:57:49 < Sonja> so you were saying "the one i consider to be a woman is actually a man" ?
23 Jan 2010 11:57:56 < varkiclaflo`i> yes
23 Jan 2010 11:58:15 < varkiclaflo`i> well, no "actually" is needed.
23 Jan 2010 11:59:08  * varkiclaflo`i is glad that he knows just enough to be helpful
23 Jan 2010 11:59:29 < Sonja> is "one whomi consider to be__" the best translation for le/ku ?
23 Jan 2010 12:00:05 < varkiclaflo`i> if you want to be verbose and unambiguous, yes
23 Jan 2010 12:00:28 < varkiclaflo`i> otherwise a/the is fine
23 Jan 2010 12:00:37 < Sonja> the best english equivalent to the ideo of le/ku (as opposed to lo/ku)
23 Jan 2010 12:01:11 < varkiclaflo`i> yes, then
23 Jan 2010 12:01:21 < Sonja> lo/ku makes no judgment on who thinks it's true
23 Jan 2010 12:01:27 < Sonja> but le implies that i thnk it's true but others don't?
23 Jan 2010 12:02:27 < varkiclaflo`i> no, well, maybe, but mainly that they'll intuit it from context
23 Jan 2010 12:02:51 < Sonja> where can i read the authoritative definitions or explanatinos of lo/ku vs le/ku?
23 Jan 2010 12:02:58 < varkiclaflo`i> CLL
23 Jan 2010 12:03:07 < varkiclaflo`i> the reference grammar
23 Jan 2010 12:03:15 < Sonja> is that the huge red book?
23 Jan 2010 12:03:24 < Sonja> that came out in the 90s with random missing blank pages
23 Jan 2010 12:03:34 < varkiclaflo`i> i don't know. i read it from the internet
23 Jan 2010 12:03:47 < varkiclaflo`i> but yes, it is huge, at 600+ pages
23 Jan 2010 12:04:34 < sam_tceipn_> 'lo' is making a statement about objective reality, 'le' is warning people that you're speaking subjectively.
23 Jan 2010 12:04:46 < Melvar> It doesn’t look that big in HTML form.
23 Jan 2010 12:04:55 < Sonja> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/The+Lojban+Reference+Grammar ?
23 Jan 2010 12:05:03 < Sonja> it doesn't have an index to look up le vs lo ?
23 Jan 2010 12:05:13 < timonator> it does, at the very end
23 Jan 2010 12:05:16 < timonator> the selma'o catalogue
23 Jan 2010 12:05:29 < varkiclaflo`i> yes. this is the book
23 Jan 2010 12:09:07 < varkiclaflo`i> isn't "lo melbi" undefined and undefinable, then?
23 Jan 2010 12:09:31  * varkiclaflo`i is confirming suspicions
23 Jan 2010 12:09:59 < timonator> huh?
23 Jan 2010 12:10:12 < timonator> lo melbi is very definable
23 Jan 2010 12:10:29 < Sonja> the one i consider to be beautiful
23 Jan 2010 12:10:33 < varkiclaflo`i> my concept of beauty may be quite different than yours
23 Jan 2010 12:10:40 < timonator> well, not necessarily "i", sonja
23 Jan 2010 12:10:51 < timonator> melbi2 is the person to whom the melbi1 is beautiful
23 Jan 2010 12:10:53 < Sonja> i'm still trying to understand le/lo
23 Jan 2010 12:11:03 < Sonja> oh lo melbi is just "beautiful one"
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23 Jan 2010 12:11:33 < Sonja> le melbi is "one i consider to be beautiful" ?
23 Jan 2010 12:11:38 < timonator> yes, but also take care not to ignore the other places
23 Jan 2010 12:11:42 < varkiclaflo`i> one would just have to use "lo melbi be mi ku", then
23 Jan 2010 12:11:55 < timonator> no, not have to
23 Jan 2010 12:12:06 < timonator> well, i usually do, but it's not necessary
23 Jan 2010 12:12:41 < timonator> Sonja: be careful not to mash together different things - the "i consider to be" is not really accurate
23 Jan 2010 12:12:57 < Sonja> yes, i'm asking for what is the specific definition and difference between le and lo
23 Jan 2010 12:13:20 < varkiclaflo`i> you defined them yourself earlier
23 Jan 2010 12:13:37 < timonator> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/veridicality - this is the difference between lo and le
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23 Jan 2010 12:14:59 < sam_tceipn_> 'le melbi' is more like 'something that I believe to be beautiful, to someone, in some way, by some standard.
23 Jan 2010 12:15:26 < timonator> that's a good way to put it i suppose
23 Jan 2010 12:15:35 < sam_tceipn_> 'lo melbi' is 'something which, objectively speaking, is beautiful to someone in some way by some standard.'
23 Jan 2010 12:15:40 < timonator> i've never been too sure, though. xorlo says "when in doubt use lo, it's always correct"
23 Jan 2010 12:16:28 < varkiclaflo`i> i'd say to use "le", in case you _aren't_ describing something that truly is that
23 Jan 2010 12:16:51 < varkiclaflo`i> but if xorlo is in high regard, i'll trust him
23 Jan 2010 12:16:53 -!- lazni [n=lazni@117.4.235.140] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23 Jan 2010 12:16:59 < timonator> xorlo is not a person ;)
23 Jan 2010 12:17:01 < sam_tceipn_> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri
23 Jan 2010 12:17:04 < Sonja> it's hard to be 100% objective
23 Jan 2010 12:17:06 < timonator> xorxes is the person who made xorlo
23 Jan 2010 12:17:09 < sam_tceipn_> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/How+to+use+xorlo
23 Jan 2010 12:17:11 < Sonja> everything is filtered through our eyes and our interpretation
23 Jan 2010 12:17:16 < timonator> exactly
23 Jan 2010 12:17:16 < varkiclaflo`i> hehehe... oops... .u'i
23 Jan 2010 12:17:36 -!- cmacis [n=james@cpc2-leed11-0-0-cust240.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
23 Jan 2010 12:17:53 < timonator> all lojban allows you is to state predicates. wether or not they apply to the real world or have any significance whatsoever is not for the language to do
23 Jan 2010 12:20:07 < sam_tceipn_> Actually, according to those articles I just linked you to (which I'm only now reading for the first time myself) I was being a bit misleading.
23 Jan 2010 12:20:21 < Sonja> mi cilre be lojban = i am learning lojban  ?
23 Jan 2010 12:20:25 < sam_tceipn_> I think my understanding has come from pre-xorlo references...
23 Jan 2010 12:20:34 < Sonja> thanks for the korlo
23 Jan 2010 12:20:35 < Sonja> xorlo
23 Jan 2010 12:21:02 < varkiclaflo`i> co'o rodo
23 Jan 2010 12:21:09 -!- varkiclaflo`i [n=home@adsl-162-133-175.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23 Jan 2010 12:22:32 < sam_tceipn_> 'be' is for attaching sumti to a selbri which it itself inside a sumti. And you want the third place of cilre. Just "I learn lojban" as a sentence is {mi cilre fi la lojban}.
23 Jan 2010 12:24:43 < sam_tceipn_> Somebody who understands event contours can explain how to say 'I am currently in the process of learning lojban', although just to put it in the present tense is {mi ca cilre fi la lojban}.
23 Jan 2010 12:25:49 < Sonja> mi cilre fi la lojban
23 Jan 2010 12:26:59 < Sonja> mi baupli la .esperantos.
23 Jan 2010 12:27:08 < Sonja> i use Esperanto?
23 Jan 2010 12:27:41 < sam_tceipn_> Yes.
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23 Jan 2010 12:30:01 < Sonja> there is no word like espobau ?
23 Jan 2010 12:30:17 < Sonja> for common languages like english, lojban, german, french, etc.
23 Jan 2010 12:31:32 -!- durka42 [n=Adium@d252.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit ["Leaving."]
23 Jan 2010 12:34:36 < sam_tceipn_> I'm not sure what you're asking. There's a lujvo for 'Esperanto', we were just using it - {lo pa'arbau}.
23 Jan 2010 12:35:16 < sam_tceipn_> Apparently derived from {pacna bangu}, "wish language".
23 Jan 2010 12:35:54 < krici> really? I didn't know there was a common lujvo for Esperanto. I've just used cmene
23 Jan 2010 12:36:26 < sam_tceipn_> Well it's in the PDF dictionary, I don't know if that's at all authoritative...
23 Jan 2010 12:36:36 < sam_tceipn_> I've heard lindar for one complaining about it.
23 Jan 2010 12:36:41 < Sonja> la pa'arbau ?
23 Jan 2010 12:37:21 < krici> {la .esperantos.} is what I use to avoid confusion. pa'arbau would've confused me without a dictionary.
23 Jan 2010 12:37:21 < nonporous> where can i get the pdf dictionary?
23 Jan 2010 12:38:02 < timonator> well, if you don't know that "esperanto" == "he who hopes" or something, then yeah, it might have confused you
23 Jan 2010 12:38:12 < nonporous> (nevermind i found it!)
23 Jan 2010 12:38:33 < Sonja> is fu'ivla a compound word?
23 Jan 2010 12:38:35 < sam_tceipn_> No, 'la' is for a name (a {cmene}, although I know Lojban's grammar vocabulary irritates you). {pa'arbau} is a {brivla} ("content word") meaning "x1 is Esperanto".
23 Jan 2010 12:38:35 < krici> timonator: I guess knowing that would help. :P I know little about Esperanto.
23 Jan 2010 12:38:45 < krici> fu'ivla is a lujvo.
23 Jan 2010 12:38:55 < timonator> u'i
23 Jan 2010 12:39:00 < timonator> zo u'ivla fu'ivla
23 Jan 2010 12:39:25 < timonator> sam_tceipn_: you can use la with brivla, too
23 Jan 2010 12:39:27 < sam_tceipn_> The world "fu'ivla" itself is a compound word, if that's what you're asking. The things referred to as "fu'ivla" are loanwords.
23 Jan 2010 12:39:34 < timonator> la pa'arbau is actually correct, too
23 Jan 2010 12:39:52 < sam_tceipn_> Yes, although it probably doesn't mean what Sonja expects.
23 Jan 2010 12:40:12 < timonator> it doesn't?
23 Jan 2010 12:40:41 < sam_tceipn_> Sonja: You can use 'la' with any selbri, but what it does is to detach the selbri from its normal meaning - you are using it purely as a label, and the normal meaning of the label-word you chose may or may not be at all relevant.
23 Jan 2010 12:41:12 < sam_tceipn_> You can refer to someone as 'la gerku', in the same way that 'dog' might be someone's nickname in English.
23 Jan 2010 12:41:33 < sam_tceipn_> But they don't necessarily bear any resemblance to a dog.
23 Jan 2010 12:43:40 < nonporous> So is 'la' similar to putting something in quotes in English (at least one of the many uses of quotes)?
23 Jan 2010 12:44:25 < krici> Actually, it's more like making a common noun into a proper one.
23 Jan 2010 12:44:33 < krici> A dog as opposed to my friend Dog
23 Jan 2010 12:44:36 < nonporous> so "la ____" might refer to something called ____ although it's unrelated to the meaning of ____?
23 Jan 2010 12:44:46 < nonporous> i see i see
23 Jan 2010 12:44:53 < Sonja> la converts a common noun to proper one
23 Jan 2010 12:46:43 < Sonja> why do the words "selbri" and "nunkei have 6 lettern instead of 5?
23 Jan 2010 12:47:05 < sam_tceipn_> They're lujvo, not gismu.
23 Jan 2010 12:47:39 < Sonja> gismu is root word. and lujvo is ... ?
23 Jan 2010 12:47:45 < sam_tceipn_> A compound word.
23 Jan 2010 12:48:02 < Sonja> neat
23 Jan 2010 12:48:19 < Sonja> so it's possible to break it down to its elements that compose it?
23 Jan 2010 12:48:31 < timonator> exactly
23 Jan 2010 12:48:46 < timonator> in this case it's sel•bri and nun•key
23 Jan 2010 12:48:51 < timonator> nun•kei sorry
23 Jan 2010 12:49:04 < Sonja> but then i have to look up sel to know what is the 5-letter root word that sel is short for?
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23 Jan 2010 12:49:29 < sam_tceipn_> Well eventually one starts to remember the rafsi, but yes.
23 Jan 2010 12:49:55 < sam_tceipn_> 'sel' comes up often, it's the rafsi for 'se' - the cmavo that reverses the first two places of a word.
23 Jan 2010 12:50:26 < Sonja> ohhh interesting
23 Jan 2010 12:50:26 < timonator> yes, sel and nun (which is a/the short form for nu, the event abstractor) are used pretty often
23 Jan 2010 12:50:31 < timonator> and are easily recognized
23 Jan 2010 12:50:36 < sam_tceipn_> 'bridi' means 'x1 is the predicate relationship of relation x2 among arguments x3'.
23 Jan 2010 12:50:52 < sam_tceipn_> so 'se bridi' is 'x1 is the relation of the predicate relationship of x2 among arguments x3'.
23 Jan 2010 12:51:14 < Sonja> neat
23 Jan 2010 12:51:20 < sam_tceipn_> hence 'lo selbridi' - 'a relation (creating some relationship, between some arguments)'.
23 Jan 2010 12:51:35 -!- nonporous [n=Brahim@71.168.72.150] has quit ["Leaving."]
23 Jan 2010 12:51:41 < Sonja> is there a page where i can lookup what kei is the combining form of?
23 Jan 2010 12:51:41 < sam_tceipn_> or 'lo selbri' rather, since 'bridi' has the handy rafsi 'bri'.
23 Jan 2010 12:51:54 -!- nonporous [n=Brahim@71.168.72.150] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 12:51:56 < sam_tceipn_> You can search le jbovlaste by rafsi.
23 Jan 2010 12:52:12 < sam_tceipn_> http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl
23 Jan 2010 12:52:40 < Sonja> kei = end abstraction
23 Jan 2010 12:53:13 < sam_tceipn_> That's what it means on its own as a cmavo, yes.
23 Jan 2010 12:53:29 < sam_tceipn_> If you use the dropdown menu to search for it as a rafsi you'll find 'kelci'.
23 Jan 2010 12:53:34 < Sonja> i'm trying to understand how nunkei means game
23 Jan 2010 12:53:46 < Sonja> presumably from a root word meaning play or something like that?
23 Jan 2010 12:54:06 < Sonja> oh there it is
23 Jan 2010 12:54:35 < sam_tceipn_> {nunkei} from {nu kelci}, "(the) event of playing".
23 Jan 2010 12:54:46 < timonator> yes, you have to be careful
23 Jan 2010 12:54:59 < timonator> many combining word-bits have the very same form of sumti
23 Jan 2010 12:55:34 < timonator> this can be confusing, because the sumti kei means end-of-abstraction, but -kei- comes from kelci - x1 plays with plaything/toy/game x2
23 Jan 2010 12:55:52 < timonator> wtf, cmavo, not sumti
23 Jan 2010 12:55:54 < timonator> i apologize
23 Jan 2010 12:56:22 < sam_tceipn_> The rules by which Lojban is parsed are such that the two can never actually be confused for each other in speech.
23 Jan 2010 12:56:33 < sam_tceipn_> It's just a minor gotcha when you're looking things up in the dictionary.
23 Jan 2010 12:56:46 < Sonja> there's two different kei combining forms
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23 Jan 2010 12:57:15 < sam_tceipn_> You mean 'kel' and 'kei'?
23 Jan 2010 12:57:28 < sam_tceipn_> For 'kelci'?
23 Jan 2010 12:57:30 < timonator> that is true, kelci has two available
23 Jan 2010 12:57:43 < Sonja> the word for game uses the 'kei' combining form
23 Jan 2010 12:58:29 < timonator> every gismu has between two and five: they all have the 5-letter and first-four-letter forms that you can use in a compound word and beyond that some have been blessed with between one and three of the shorter forms, like kei and kel for kelci or tu'u for tubnu
23 Jan 2010 12:59:00 < Sonja> any historical reasons why there are so many inconsintent combining forms?
23 Jan 2010 12:59:03 < timonator> nu + kelci cannot use the "kel" particle, because that would make it "nunkel" and that is a cmevla, name word
23 Jan 2010 12:59:10 < Sonja> was it thought that combining the root words themselves would be too practical?
23 Jan 2010 12:59:11 < timonator> what do you mean by that?
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23 Jan 2010 12:59:26 < Sonja> insetad of memorizing all the combining forms a root word can have
23 Jan 2010 12:59:34 < timonator> the only one i know is sel, ter, vel and xel, where ter is the irregular one
23 Jan 2010 12:59:50 < timonator> oh you can combine the root words themselves, but those words get long.
23 Jan 2010 12:59:52 < Sonja> natural languages have a lot of weird stuff like this, but it's interesting that lojban was planned this way
23 Jan 2010 13:00:08 < sam_tceipn_> The point of rafsi is just to make lujvo shorter. It was thought they'd get too long and unwieldy otherwise.
23 Jan 2010 13:00:24 < Sonja> but each root word can have more than one combining form
23 Jan 2010 13:00:49 < Sonja> kelci can be kel or kei
23 Jan 2010 13:01:25 < timonator> well, kei cannot appear as the first particle if the next one is of the CVV form, unless you use a hyphen to combine them, else they break apart into two cmavo
23 Jan 2010 13:01:37 < sam_tceipn_> Yes, because the morphological rules of lujvo would mean that either 'kel' or 'kei' often wouldn't worked. (As Timonator is saying in more detail...)
23 Jan 2010 13:02:00 < Sonja> aĥ
23 Jan 2010 13:02:09 < Sonja> thanks
23 Jan 2010 13:02:12 < timonator> keicai, for instance is not the combining form of kelci and carmi, but the cmavo kei -end abstraction- and cai -strong emotion-
23 Jan 2010 13:02:13 < sam_tceipn_> 'kelci' was thought to be important enough that people would want to be able to make short lujvo out of it in a variety of circumstances.
23 Jan 2010 13:02:23 < timonator> yeah, because play is good
23 Jan 2010 13:02:35 < timonator> all work and no play makes bab a bored lojbanist
23 Jan 2010 13:02:51 < sam_tceipn_> Sometimes once you've applied all the restrictions of lujvo to the set of rafsi for the words you want to combine, you find that there's still more than one possibility -
23 Jan 2010 13:03:03 < Sonja> most of lojban was developed by a guy called bab?
23 Jan 2010 13:03:13 < timonator> not really
23 Jan 2010 13:03:13 < sam_tceipn_> in which case all of the valid lujvo for that set of words are considered to mean the same thing.
23 Jan 2010 13:03:47 < timonator> a lot of inspiration (don't know how much exactly) has been taken from loglan, and all the gismu have been created with the algorithm
23 Jan 2010 13:04:35 < Sonja> did the loglan people try to sue lojban for stealing their idea? :)
23 Jan 2010 13:05:37 < timonator> the loglan guy, yes
23 Jan 2010 13:05:45 < timonator> well, more or less
23 Jan 2010 13:05:51 < timonator> the story is a bit more complicated
23 Jan 2010 13:06:05 < Sonja> if i'm curious why djacu means water, i can see a log somewhere what hindi and chinese word they used to form it?
23 Jan 2010 13:06:36 < timonator> someone on the mailing list dug it out some time ago, but i don't know if i can find it again, hold on
23 Jan 2010 13:06:37 < sam_tceipn_> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Lojban+timeline
23 Jan 2010 13:08:44 < Sonja> ohhh this is the big red book i bought in the 90s that had many blank pages in it http://www.lojban.org/tiki/The+Complete+Lojban+Language
23 Jan 2010 13:09:42 < timonator> many blank pages?
23 Jan 2010 13:09:55 < Sonja> yeah like 30 pages in a row would randomly be blank
23 Jan 2010 13:09:57 < Sonja> here and there
23 Jan 2010 13:10:00 < Sonja> had printing errors in it, i ithnk
23 Jan 2010 13:10:42 -!- omologos [n=oscar@189.151.31.119] has quit ["Leaving."]
23 Jan 2010 13:10:45 < timonator> woops?
23 Jan 2010 13:10:48 < timonator> that's bad :(
23 Jan 2010 13:11:30 < Sonja> is there a lojban term for an irc channel?
23 Jan 2010 13:11:50 < timonator> i think it has been referred to as a tcana before
23 Jan 2010 13:12:12 -!- Huggles_sipna is now known as Hugglesworth
23 Jan 2010 13:13:02 < Sonja> http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl?Form=dict.pl1&Strategy=*&Database=en%3C-%3Ejbo&Query=tcana
23 Jan 2010 13:13:20 < Hugglesworth> coi rodo
23 Jan 2010 13:13:26 < timonator> sometimes it's called la'o irk #lojban irk
23 Jan 2010 13:13:36 < timonator> coi xagls
23 Jan 2010 13:14:01 < timonator> poor server. now its load gone up to 1.09 just because i decided to have it search through all my lojban mails
23 Jan 2010 13:14:09 < timonator> i do have a crapton of lojban mails!
23 Jan 2010 13:16:24 < sam_tceipn_> mi cliva ki'u lenu ckafi terve'u
23 Jan 2010 13:17:22 < timonator> co'o sam
23 Jan 2010 13:17:26 < timonator> pluka ko fa lo ckafi
23 Jan 2010 13:17:38 < timonator> Sonja: couldn't find it, sorry :(
23 Jan 2010 13:18:29 < timonator> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Lojban+Etymology this might or might not be it
23 Jan 2010 13:21:13 < Sonja> yup looks like it!
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23 Jan 2010 13:26:21 < Sonja> the algorithm thingy is neat how it mishmashes to create new words
23 Jan 2010 13:26:37 < timonator> yeah, it's fun
23 Jan 2010 13:26:39 < komfn> Sonja: https://www.dealloc.org/~mublin/
23 Jan 2010 13:27:04 < komfn> Lots of etymology stuff there, including, I think, the actual Chinese characters used as source.
23 Jan 2010 13:27:19 < komfn> There's some security weirdness going on there which I don't understand. Be warned.
23 Jan 2010 13:27:26 -!- durka42 [n=Adium@d252.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 13:28:23 < timonator> probably just a self-signed certificate
23 Jan 2010 13:28:33 < timonator> Sonja: don't transmit your credit card data to that website
23 Jan 2010 13:29:13 < komfn> The guy's comment was: "A mixture of sysadmin laziness and a vague feeling that the Internet
23 Jan 2010 13:29:15 < komfn> would suck less if all our communications were encrypted by default. Hope it's not too inconvenient."
23 Jan 2010 13:30:07 < komfn> Anyway, the guy did a lot of work reconstructing data that was scrawled by hand in a pile of papers at Lojbab's house, IIRC.
23 Jan 2010 13:30:31 -!- durka42 [n=Adium@d252.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
23 Jan 2010 13:33:05 < Sonja> how does it decide that the final root word "abcde" is a better match than "fghij" for example?
23 Jan 2010 13:37:04  * timonator doesn't know :(
23 Jan 2010 13:38:22 < komfn> Basically, they took the source words, reduced them to Lojban's phonology, & whichever 3 consonants & two vowels were the most frequent in the set got chosen for the gismu, in the order in which they most often appeared in the source words.
23 Jan 2010 13:38:28 < komfn> I think. I wasn't there.
23 Jan 2010 13:38:35 < komfn> And can't find a ref.
23 Jan 2010 13:38:45 < Sonja> so some of the lojban phonemes must be really rare
23 Jan 2010 13:39:27 < komfn> Well, Arabic & Chinese are missing phonemes that Lojban has.
23 Jan 2010 13:39:44 < komfn> E.g., Arabic has no p or v. Chinese has no v.
23 Jan 2010 13:39:57 < Sonja> arabic has no e and o, but a and u sound like e and o in many contexts
23 Jan 2010 13:40:30 < komfn> Right, but I would guess that they used the standard {aiu} vowel set for these purposes.
23 Jan 2010 13:40:38 < timonator> part of the scoring was to make the space between gismu maximal
23 Jan 2010 13:40:51 < komfn> Yes, that was postprocessing.
23 Jan 2010 13:41:15 < komfn> There's a minimal phonological distanced enforced between any pair of gismu.
23 Jan 2010 13:41:21 < komfn> *distance
23 Jan 2010 13:41:35 < Sonja> is there a frequency chart of the 100 most common root words?
23 Jan 2010 13:42:12 < Twey> There's a list, somewhere
23 Jan 2010 13:42:24 < komfn> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Word+frequency+lists
23 Jan 2010 13:42:32 < Sonja> hura!
23 Jan 2010 13:42:58 < Twey> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Word+frequency+lists:+gismu
23 Jan 2010 13:43:02 < Twey> Oh, you got it :þ
23 Jan 2010 13:45:26 < komfn> http://dag.github.com/lojban-irc-stats/ - Monthly stats from #lojban. Scroll down for word frequency.
23 Jan 2010 13:46:14 < Sonja> neat
23 Jan 2010 13:47:16 < timonator> these stats are way out of date! :(
23 Jan 2010 13:47:22 < timonator> donri: work your magic?
23 Jan 2010 13:52:55 -!- Elench is now known as ambisinister
23 Jan 2010 13:53:22 -!- ambisinister is now known as amisinistrous
23 Jan 2010 13:53:31 -!- amisinistrous is now known as ambisinistrous
23 Jan 2010 13:54:00 < timonator> ambisinistrous: is that a real word?
23 Jan 2010 13:54:21 < ambisinistrous> timonator: it is now, it means "equally clumsy with both hands"
23 Jan 2010 13:54:29 < ambisinistrous> It was coined on ##English :-)
23 Jan 2010 13:54:35 < timonator> awesome
23 Jan 2010 13:54:52 < timonator> i should have that as my nickname
23 Jan 2010 13:54:54 < timonator> oh
23 Jan 2010 13:54:55 < timonator> wait
23 Jan 2010 13:54:57  * ambisinistrous wonders what the lojbanic equivolent is
23 Jan 2010 13:54:57 < timonator> shit :)
23 Jan 2010 13:55:00 < ambisinistrous> ?
23 Jan 2010 13:55:24 < timonator> rolxantolcertu - non-expert with all hands ;)
23 Jan 2010 13:55:35 < ambisinistrous> hehe, you can have that one then
23 Jan 2010 13:55:41 < ambisinistrous> is "rol" a form of "ro"?
23 Jan 2010 13:56:05 < ambisinistrous> One of them new fangled rafsi things?
23 Jan 2010 13:56:05 < timonator> yes
23 Jan 2010 13:56:40  * ambisinistrous misses lojbot
23 Jan 2010 13:56:47 < Twey> We have makfa
23 Jan 2010 13:56:53 < ambisinistrous> makfa?
23 Jan 2010 13:57:32 < ambisinistrous> not a helpful help text...
23 Jan 2010 13:57:38 < Sonja> klama means both come and go?
23 Jan 2010 13:57:59 < ambisinistrous> I think it means "journey" really
23 Jan 2010 13:58:08 < Twey> ambisinistrous: #makfa
23 Jan 2010 13:58:09 < timonator> "change position to a destination from a position via a route using a means of transportatior"
23 Jan 2010 13:58:19 < timonator> so yeah
23 Jan 2010 13:58:28 < timonator> for just "leave a place via a route" we have cliva
23 Jan 2010 13:58:31 < ambisinistrous> So it can mean any or all of those constituant parts
23 Jan 2010 13:58:42 < timonator> and for "arrive at a place from a route/direction" would be tolcliva
23 Jan 2010 13:58:57 < timonator> (to'e cliva - opposite of leave)
23 Jan 2010 13:59:07 < Twey> timonator: Ew
23 Jan 2010 13:59:21 < ambisinistrous> ?to'e
23 Jan 2010 13:59:31 < timonator> ew?
23 Jan 2010 13:59:34 < Twey> Hm, okay, that's not as bad as it initially struck me because of the contrast with nalcliva
23 Jan 2010 13:59:46 < ambisinistrous> ?q to'e
23 Jan 2010 13:59:48 < timonator> what is nalcliva supposed to be?
23 Jan 2010 13:59:53 < Twey> The ‘opposite of “leave”’ to me would be ‘stay’
23 Jan 2010 14:00:01 < Twey> But I guess ‘nalcliva’ would cover that
23 Jan 2010 14:00:10 < Twey> ambisinistrous: Not here — #makfa
23 Jan 2010 14:00:19 < timonator> exactly
23 Jan 2010 14:00:21 < ambisinistrous> Twey: Then why is the bot here?
23 Jan 2010 14:00:27 < timonator> "stay" is the *other* opposite of leave :)
23 Jan 2010 14:00:28 < Twey> It collects info
23 Jan 2010 14:00:36 < Twey> It's not allowed to speak here because it doesn't talk Lojban
23 Jan 2010 14:00:47 < ambisinistrous> What sort of info?
23 Jan 2010 14:00:51  * ambisinistrous feels haunted
23 Jan 2010 14:00:53 -!- durka42 [n=Adium@d252.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 14:01:00 < Twey> Statistics for the above-linked page, to start with, I imagine
23 Jan 2010 14:01:02 < timonator> ambisinistrous: what you like to eat and stuff
23 Jan 2010 14:01:04 < timonator> sells it and so on
23 Jan 2010 14:01:12 < timonator> Twey: no, those come from vreji_dk
23 Jan 2010 14:01:21 < Twey> Really?  Hm.
23 Jan 2010 14:01:28 < Twey> I don't know, then.  Ask donri.
23 Jan 2010 14:01:29 < timonator> dunno what makfa does in here
23 Jan 2010 14:01:39 < timonator> he has put the makfa source online ;)
23 Jan 2010 14:01:46 < Twey> Maybe it's just here to aid tab-completing queries.
23 Jan 2010 14:03:46 < Sonja> ractu is rabbits and hares
23 Jan 2010 14:04:01 < timonator> and ratcu is rats :)
23 Jan 2010 14:04:02 < ambisinistrous> i thoguht ractu was rats too
23 Jan 2010 14:04:05 < ambisinistrous> oh
23 Jan 2010 14:04:25 < Sonja> is it an intentional similarity?
23 Jan 2010 14:04:45 < timonator> dunno
23 Jan 2010 14:04:56 < timonator> it confused me in the beginning of my learning
23 Jan 2010 14:04:59 < ambisinistrous> Seems strange to group rabbit and hare though
23 Jan 2010 14:04:59 < komfn> I think they derive i ndependently from the gismu algorithm. Coincidence.
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23 Jan 2010 14:05:21 < Sonja> smacu for mouse
23 Jan 2010 14:05:33 < timonator> what's the difference between a rabbit and a hare?
23 Jan 2010 14:05:35 < Sonja> (the animal)
23 Jan 2010 14:06:18 < Sonja> they're both http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leporidae
23 Jan 2010 14:06:48 < timonator> that's not a difference :D
23 Jan 2010 14:07:21 < Sonja> thats the sameness that ractu unites them under
23 Jan 2010 14:07:29 < timonator> oh ok
23 Jan 2010 14:07:32 < Sonja> kalmari is squid and cuttlefish
23 Jan 2010 14:07:42 < Sonja> looks like a loanword
23 Jan 2010 14:07:46 < timonator> yes, it is
23 Jan 2010 14:07:59 < Sonja> so some animals are root words, others are loanwords added later
23 Jan 2010 14:08:15 < timonator> yes
23 Jan 2010 14:08:18 < komfn> Some are lujvo.
23 Jan 2010 14:09:03 < Sonja> jipci chicken
23 Jan 2010 14:09:07 < timonator> :))
23 Jan 2010 14:09:12 < timonator> jipci is a fun word
23 Jan 2010 14:09:24 < Sonja> kanba goat
23 Jan 2010 14:09:35 < Sonja> doesn't assimilate to kamba?
23 Jan 2010 14:09:52 < timonator> dunno
23 Jan 2010 14:10:05 < Sonja> no word for whale?
23 Jan 2010 14:10:14 < Sonja> i guess lojban is european bias for animals, right?
23 Jan 2010 14:10:17 < timonator> the whaleman does not approve.
23 Jan 2010 14:10:45 < timonator> yes, animals and cultures are tough to root-word
23 Jan 2010 14:10:50 < timonator> very tough
23 Jan 2010 14:10:53 < Sonja> xruki is turkey
23 Jan 2010 14:11:07 < Sonja> it seems to have root words for the common european animals
23 Jan 2010 14:11:14 < Sonja> but not other climates
23 Jan 2010 14:11:18 < timonator> cinfu?
23 Jan 2010 14:11:22 < timonator> no
23 Jan 2010 14:11:27 < timonator> cinfo
23 Jan 2010 14:11:47 < komfn> xirma
23 Jan 2010 14:11:48 < timonator> tirxu :)
23 Jan 2010 14:12:05 < timonator> zipcpi
23 Jan 2010 14:12:18 < ambisinistrous> timonator: i like to eat food
23 Jan 2010 14:12:24 < komfn> xasli
23 Jan 2010 14:12:25 < komfn> kumte
23 Jan 2010 14:12:28 < ambisinistrous> Mostly animals vegetables and minerals
23 Jan 2010 14:12:49 < timonator> huh?
23 Jan 2010 14:13:05 < Sonja> kumte is an interesting broad term
23 Jan 2010 14:13:26 < Sonja> any camelid
23 Jan 2010 14:13:26 < ambisinistrous> oh sorry timonator i misread a post from earlier
23 Jan 2010 14:13:33 < sam_tceipn_> mi xrukla
23 Jan 2010 14:13:38 < timonator> .o(eskimos must have a hundred different words for snow!!!!!!!!)
23 Jan 2010 14:13:55 < Sonja> the less European the animal is, the more the root word is vague and includes a whole family of animals :)
23 Jan 2010 14:14:03 < Sonja> i guess lojban shows its white bias
23 Jan 2010 14:14:21 < ambisinistrous> the animal gismu are just odd
23 Jan 2010 14:14:22 < timonator> :(
23 Jan 2010 14:14:36 < komfn> I'd be interested to see you back up that claim.
23 Jan 2010 14:14:39 < timonator> unfortunately it does have such a bias. it's hard to overcome such a bias
23 Jan 2010 14:14:44 < Sonja> cribe are cute
23 Jan 2010 14:14:47 < timonator> at least a mild bias
23 Jan 2010 14:14:55 < Twey> I don't know… I think the gismu were all chosen to be deliberately broad
23 Jan 2010 14:15:04 < timonator> en
23 Jan 2010 14:15:05 < timonator> yes
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23 Jan 2010 14:15:12 < Sonja> it distinguishes between chicken, duck and turkey
23 Jan 2010 14:15:14 < ambisinistrous> Is it tigers, sheep and humans that don't follow the normal gismu pattern for animals?
23 Jan 2010 14:15:21 < Sonja> but llamas and arabian camels are the same root word
23 Jan 2010 14:15:21 < Twey> Perhaps it shouldn't
23 Jan 2010 14:15:49 < komfn> Are chickens and ducks of European origin?
23 Jan 2010 14:15:54 < Twey> But then, all classification of species is ultimately arbitrary
23 Jan 2010 14:16:04 < komfn> They are certainly eaten outside of Europe.
23 Jan 2010 14:16:04 < Sonja> yeah they're common food for white people
23 Jan 2010 14:16:13 < komfn> And the Chinese?
23 Jan 2010 14:16:13 < Twey> They're common food for everyone :þ
23 Jan 2010 14:16:16 < Sonja> chinese too yea
23 Jan 2010 14:16:17 < ambisinistrous> At least attempting to map them to the phylogenetic tree might be nice then
23 Jan 2010 14:16:19 < Sonja> everyone eats em i guess
23 Jan 2010 14:16:25 < ambisinistrous> hare and rabbit with one word is just odd
23 Jan 2010 14:16:39 < timonator> i think "tastes like chicken" is pretty universal
23 Jan 2010 14:16:41 < Sonja> haha
23 Jan 2010 14:16:44 < Twey> Haha
23 Jan 2010 14:16:48 < Sonja> what's the lojban word for soy beans?
23 Jan 2010 14:16:52 < Sonja> or seaweed
23 Jan 2010 14:16:57 < ambisinistrous> humans don't taste like chicken
23 Jan 2010 14:16:58 < Twey> sobde
23 Jan 2010 14:17:03 < Sonja> or plantain
23 Jan 2010 14:17:04 < komfn> sobde
23 Jan 2010 14:17:07 < komfn> badna
23 Jan 2010 14:17:18 < komfn> seaweed - dunno.
23 Jan 2010 14:17:26 < Twey> Probably a lujvo
23 Jan 2010 14:17:34 < Sonja> neat
23 Jan 2010 14:18:01 < Twey> (badna would probably want a lujvo to make the meaning of ‘plantain’ clear, too)
23 Jan 2010 14:18:14 < Twey> (in its raw state, it includes both plantains and bananas)
23 Jan 2010 14:18:25 < timonator> mi tatpi gi'e ba bo sipna
23 Jan 2010 14:18:28 < Sonja> i like cassava
23 Jan 2010 14:18:40 < Twey> I guess it's a ‘leafy vegetable’ (seaweed)
23 Jan 2010 14:18:45 < Sonja> samcu yum
23 Jan 2010 14:18:50 < ambisinistrous> saag
23 Jan 2010 14:18:53 < Twey> So something like xasko'i
23 Jan 2010 14:19:19 < Sonja> gah, now i'm hungry
23 Jan 2010 14:19:30 < Twey> Hehe
23 Jan 2010 14:19:31 < Sonja> want samcu nao
23 Jan 2010 14:19:33 < Sonja> bye! <3
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23 Jan 2010 14:19:50 < Twey> Haha, she left to get yams?
23 Jan 2010 14:22:17 < Dessous> Do any people eat bats?
23 Jan 2010 14:22:46 < ambisinistrous> probably
23 Jan 2010 14:22:55 < ambisinistrous> i think people catch and eat fruit bats
23 Jan 2010 14:23:46 < timonator> co'o rodo
23 Jan 2010 14:24:16 < ambisinistrous> co'o la timonator
23 Jan 2010 14:25:10 < donri> ambisinistrous, makfa is here so commands like "??" work
23 Jan 2010 14:25:42 < ambisinistrous> Ah, ok
23 Jan 2010 14:25:48 -!- ThirtySeconds [n=30@S010600226b4f6b52.cc.shawcable.net] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 14:25:57 < ambisinistrous> Same as in #makfa but with two question marks for prefix
23 Jan 2010 14:26:47 < donri> huh?
23 Jan 2010 14:27:13 < donri> "??" is one command, it grabs the latest lojban in #lojban for analysis and glossing
23 Jan 2010 14:27:46 < ambisinistrous> Oh, sorry
23 Jan 2010 14:28:20 < Twey> It's read ‘WTF was that?’
23 Jan 2010 14:28:46 < ambisinistrous> ??
23 Jan 2010 14:29:11 < donri> not here :P
23 Jan 2010 14:29:16 < ambisinistrous> Bah!
23 Jan 2010 14:29:17 < donri> try in a PM or other channel
23 Jan 2010 14:29:22 < Twey> mu'i lu lo vi mabla cu mo li'u
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23 Jan 2010 15:10:15 < Melvar> What’s the best lojbanization of a voiceless alveolar lateral fricative?
23 Jan 2010 15:14:49 <@Broca> I doubt there is any single “best” lojbanisation.
23 Jan 2010 15:15:12 <@Broca> {k}, {s} or {l} may be acceptable to different people.
23 Jan 2010 15:17:29 < Melvar> Ho do you get /k/ from [ɬ]?
23 Jan 2010 15:18:15 < Melvar> *How
23 Jan 2010 15:18:26 < Melvar> I thought it might be of <c>, <s> or <l>.
23 Jan 2010 15:21:10 <@Broca> I think it's acoustically similar, but I'm not able to explain why.
23 Jan 2010 15:21:56 <@Broca> Also, English people are sometimes told to pronounce “ll” in Welsh place names as “cl”, so I'm obviously not alone in thinking so.
23 Jan 2010 15:28:03 < Melvar> …I’ve found a suggestion to make it /xl/ .
23 Jan 2010 15:33:48 < Twey> It's not similar at all
23 Jan 2010 15:34:02 < Twey> /xl/ is closer
23 Jan 2010 15:34:17 < Twey> I'd probably go with {cl}
23 Jan 2010 15:34:24 < Melvar> What do you refer to by “it”?
23 Jan 2010 15:34:42 < Twey> /k/ is not similar to /ɫ/
23 Jan 2010 15:34:48 < Twey> Er, /ɬ/
23 Jan 2010 15:34:54 < Melvar> I didn’t think so.
23 Jan 2010 15:35:05 < Melvar> How do you make these symbols?
23 Jan 2010 15:35:21 < Twey> It's different in just about every way possible
23 Jan 2010 15:35:26 < Twey> Melvar: With an IME
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23 Jan 2010 15:49:37 < lindar> Awesome.
23 Jan 2010 15:49:52 < lericson> I expell gases in your direction.
23 Jan 2010 15:50:09 < lindar> >_________>
23 Jan 2010 15:50:54 < lindar> Your face.
23 Jan 2010 15:51:34 -!- lis [n=leigh@206-248-172-247.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 15:51:49 -!- lis is now known as lis_nunyn_
23 Jan 2010 15:52:18 < lericson> Yes, quite exactly in the direction of your face.
23 Jan 2010 15:52:59 -!- Sonja [n=sonjaaa@69-165-131-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 15:52:59 < lindar> Don't be a jerk.
23 Jan 2010 15:53:09  * lindar waves to Sonja. =P
23 Jan 2010 15:53:27 < Sonja> who me?
23 Jan 2010 15:54:16 < lindar> The jerk comment was directed at lericson. >_>
23 Jan 2010 15:54:32 < lericson> I don't know why but "jerk" associates to dry meat for me.
23 Jan 2010 15:55:19 < Sonja> oh i thought you were warning me not to act in a way that would be perceived as troll
23 Jan 2010 15:56:13 < lindar> Ah, no. <3
23 Jan 2010 15:56:25 < Sonja> is tehre a word for jerk based on a root word meaning 'rude' or similar?
23 Jan 2010 15:56:53 < lericson> Heyyyyy, I now know why I associate jerk with dry meat. Jerky.
23 Jan 2010 15:57:28 < Sonja> jerk chicken
23 Jan 2010 15:57:32 < Sonja> jamaican food is yummy
23 Jan 2010 15:57:44 < Sonja> what's the root word for Jamaica
23 Jan 2010 15:58:04 < lindar> lo kusru <--- probably glosses to "jerk"
23 Jan 2010 15:58:11 < lindar> Also, we don't have a gismu for Jamaica.
23 Jan 2010 15:59:07 < lindar> You could come up with a fu'ivla for it, though. =D
23 Jan 2010 16:02:24 < Sonja> mi ah yes, fu'ivla being the lojban word for a loan word
23 Jan 2010 16:02:31 < Sonja> whath is the loan word for Jamaica then?
23 Jan 2010 16:02:42 < Sonja> what does the Lojban-speaknig community in Jamaica use?
23 Jan 2010 16:02:50 < lindar> We don't have one.
23 Jan 2010 16:02:59 < Sonja> oh so it's not like Esperanto where there's people everywhere
23 Jan 2010 16:03:04 < lindar> (A word for Jamaica or a Jamaican Lojban community.)
23 Jan 2010 16:03:18 < Sonja> nobody has ever tried to standardize the names of countries
23 Jan 2010 16:03:28 < lindar> No, we've had quit limited exposure so far, but that BBC Radio interview did us a bit of good publicity, I think.
23 Jan 2010 16:03:29 < Sonja> ?
23 Jan 2010 16:03:45 < Sonja> i frist heard about lojban in 95-96
23 Jan 2010 16:03:46 < lericson> Oh right, that one. Was going to listen to that. URL?
23 Jan 2010 16:03:48 < lindar> You could certainly help us with that. The problem is that there are just so darn many of them.
23 Jan 2010 16:04:17 < Sonja> are the more commonly talked about countries more standardized?
23 Jan 2010 16:04:23 < Sonja> like USA, Canada, Germany, etc.
23 Jan 2010 16:04:48 < lindar> lericson: http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/
23 Jan 2010 16:04:55 < lericson> lindar: Don't be that guy.
23 Jan 2010 16:05:47 < lindar> Sonja, the issue of cultural gismu is actually a semi-heated topic. Some countries have gismu, some have fu'ivla, and we haven't come up with names for every single country (especially as the number and names have changed since Lojban was first started, and we anticipate they will continue to do so even after we come up with names for them).
23 Jan 2010 16:06:22  * djanatyn resists the urge to say HI LINDAR
23 Jan 2010 16:06:26 < Sonja> how do lojban speakers talk about their travels or international lojban conferences then?
23 Jan 2010 16:06:33 < lindar> lericson: I -am- that guy, thank you very much. I'm not going to go digging for a URL for you. If I already have it open, I'll paste the link, but I'm not going to go out of my way to do something you could do with just as much effort. It's on the Lojban website.
23 Jan 2010 16:06:41 < Sonja> or they just stay at home on their computers? :)
23 Jan 2010 16:06:51 < lindar> Sonja: I imagine that if the issue came up, we'd make up a word for it. =D
23 Jan 2010 16:07:01 < Sonja> make up a word for countries?
23 Jan 2010 16:07:08 < lindar> We don't do a lot of travelling to Jamaica as most of our speakers are European or North American.
23 Jan 2010 16:07:18 < Sonja> so i can make up a word for jamaica and hope it becomes popular as the term for jamaica?
23 Jan 2010 16:07:28 < lindar> No, we have rules for creating fu'ivla.
23 Jan 2010 16:07:33 < lericson> lindar: That wasn't what I was saying, either. What I was saying is that it's fucking retarded to even consider linking people to that page, as it is insulting. I asked you if you had the fucking URL handy, and not to have you look it up and give it to me through a small fucking feeding tube. Clear?
23 Jan 2010 16:07:42 < lindar> (literally: Copy-word.)
23 Jan 2010 16:08:15 < Sonja> fasybau french
23 Jan 2010 16:08:15 < Sonja> glibau english
23 Jan 2010 16:08:15 < Sonja> dotybau german
23 Jan 2010 16:08:18 < Sonja> any more in this series?
23 Jan 2010 16:08:36 < lindar> Ehm... spe'ero bangu
23 Jan 2010 16:09:23 < lindar> I'm not really too hip to fu'ivla to be quite honest.
23 Jan 2010 16:09:40 < Sonja> it's hard to make compound words?
23 Jan 2010 16:10:04 < lindar> With fu'ivla? Honestly, I don't know the rules for making lujvo with fu'ivla.
23 Jan 2010 16:13:01 < lericson> URL to the BBC Radio program on Lojban and other conlangs: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=677&page=Multimedia&download=y
23 Jan 2010 16:13:34 < Sonja> so to go from kadno to Canadian land...
23 Jan 2010 16:13:37 < Sonja> i need to make a compound?
23 Jan 2010 16:15:35 -!- Arla [n=Niddler@h45n4c1o253.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 16:16:36 < lindar> Do you know the difference in meaning between a tanru and lujvo?
23 Jan 2010 16:17:35 < lindar> lo kadno gugde = A Canadian-ish country. lo kadnygu'e = Canada (the country)
23 Jan 2010 16:18:07 < lindar> In speech there isn't much of an understandable difference, but there could always be confusion with tanru.
23 Jan 2010 16:18:45 < lindar> Example: If I said {lo brito gugde} I could be talking about England, Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland, etc. However, that's probably one unusual case.
23 Jan 2010 16:19:34 -!- durka42 [n=Adium@d252.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 16:22:47 < Sonja> tanru is the lojban word for metaphor, and lujvo is the lojban word for a compound word
23 Jan 2010 16:23:35 < Sonja> is there a lojban word for "part of speech" ?
23 Jan 2010 16:25:44 < lindar> I have no clue.
23 Jan 2010 16:26:18 < Sonja> who are the most active and smartest lojban speakers who frequent #lojban ?
23 Jan 2010 16:26:25 < Sonja> i.e. most advanced speakers
23 Jan 2010 16:26:41 < lericson> THOR, THE GOD OF THUNDER
23 Jan 2010 16:26:43 < lericson> sorry, had to, night
23 Jan 2010 16:27:05 < lindar> Right now? Me.
23 Jan 2010 16:27:10 < Sonja> ok
23 Jan 2010 16:27:13 < Sonja> :D
23 Jan 2010 16:27:13 < lindar> However, I'll introduce you to my friend makfa.
23 Jan 2010 16:27:30 < lindar> "/msg makfa q *word/keyword*"
23 Jan 2010 16:27:38 < Sonja> ah a bot
23 Jan 2010 16:27:59 < lindar> Also def for shorter echo and cf for related words.
23 Jan 2010 16:28:58 < Sonja> neat
23 Jan 2010 16:29:02 < Sonja> can you give me some translation exercises
23 Jan 2010 16:29:10 < Sonja> try to say a certain sentence in correct lojban.
23 Jan 2010 16:29:14 < Twey> Sonja: rlpowell, jcowan, and others are all very-old-bies.  :þ
23 Jan 2010 16:29:22 < lindar> Probably genvla, "grammar word".
23 Jan 2010 16:29:22 < lindar> Not sure if that's defined yet.
23 Jan 2010 16:29:36 < Twey> timonator and xalbo are quite fluent, too.
23 Jan 2010 16:29:40 < lindar> Twey, help. I'm busy talking to my husband.
23 Jan 2010 16:30:04 < Twey> It's too late for imagination.  :þ
23 Jan 2010 16:30:08 < Twey> There are exercises in L4B
23 Jan 2010 16:30:51 < lindar> Translate: .i mi djica lo nu citka lo nanba ku noi kukte
23 Jan 2010 16:31:28 < lindar> Translate: .i ko na tavla fi lo cabdei
23 Jan 2010 16:32:56 < Sonja> ok
23 Jan 2010 16:33:29 < Twey> I think the idea was en -> jbo
23 Jan 2010 16:33:36 < Sonja> doesn't matter
23 Jan 2010 16:33:39 < Sonja> it'spractice either way
23 Jan 2010 16:33:40 < Twey> Okay
23 Jan 2010 16:34:20 < lindar> Translate (challenge mode!): I enjoy eating apples.
23 Jan 2010 16:34:45 < lindar> Translate: Where is my cat?
23 Jan 2010 16:34:54 -!- lericson [n=lericson@213.88.249.104] has left #lojban []
23 Jan 2010 16:35:13 < lindar> Translate: If I dance, will you as well?
23 Jan 2010 16:35:55 < Twey> The daily translation challenge for #conlang is ‘the more we work, the more work appears’
23 Jan 2010 16:36:12 < Sonja> I want to eat bread noi yummy
23 Jan 2010 16:36:16 < Sonja> what is noi
23 Jan 2010 16:36:29 < Twey> ‘, which’
23 Jan 2010 16:36:42 < Twey> Incidental relative clause
23 Jan 2010 16:36:48 < Sonja> i want to eat bread that is delicious.
23 Jan 2010 16:36:50 < lindar> Takes a sumti and adds a- yeah, that.
23 Jan 2010 16:37:03 < Twey> Sonja: No, that's poi
23 Jan 2010 16:37:10 < Twey> Restrictive incidental clause
23 Jan 2010 16:37:14 < Sonja> i want to eat bread, which by the way, is delicious
23 Jan 2010 16:37:38 < Twey> That'll do ☺  Such an explicit ‘by the way’ would usually require something like ‘ta'o’, though.
23 Jan 2010 16:38:05 < Sonja> "i want to eat bread, which is delicious" doesn't sound like proper english to me
23 Jan 2010 16:38:31 < Twey> It's perfectly fine
23 Jan 2010 16:38:54 < Twey> ‘I want to eat bread that is delicious’ is a bit odd
23 Jan 2010 16:39:02 < Twey> (usually we'd just say ‘I want to eat delicious bread’)
23 Jan 2010 16:39:34 < Sonja> "talk about today"
23 Jan 2010 16:40:02 < Twey> ‘Don't…’
23 Jan 2010 16:40:52 < Sonja> ah missed that
23 Jan 2010 16:40:55 < Sonja> don't talk about today.
23 Jan 2010 16:41:01 < Sonja> what's the root word for 'enjoy'?
23 Jan 2010 16:42:37 < Twey> I think that's the challenge
23 Jan 2010 16:43:09 < Twey> There's no gismu with that gloss — you need to modify another
23 Jan 2010 16:43:17 < kpreid> jbovlaste suggests {zanfri} or {selpu'a}
23 Jan 2010 16:43:20 < Twey> (or, well, just use a different place)
23 Jan 2010 16:43:41 < Twey> No need for that
23 Jan 2010 16:43:45 < kpreid> the latter being equivalent to "se pluka"
23 Jan 2010 16:43:50 < kpreid> so that's a root...
23 Jan 2010 16:44:04 < Twey> Oh, well, now you've spoilt it :þ
23 Jan 2010 16:44:26 < kpreid> Eh?
23 Jan 2010 16:44:29 < Sonja> ?
23 Jan 2010 16:44:42 < Twey> kpreid: It was a challenge set for Sonja's practice.
23 Jan 2010 16:44:46 < kpreid> Sorry.
23 Jan 2010 16:44:47 < Twey> I was trying not to give it away.
23 Jan 2010 16:45:05 < kpreid> I didn't read the context.
23 Jan 2010 16:45:28 < Twey> Oh well.
23 Jan 2010 16:49:03  * lindar waits for en->jbo translations
23 Jan 2010 16:49:05 < lindar> =D
23 Jan 2010 16:49:37 < Sonja> oh sorry i got distracted in #conlang
23 Jan 2010 16:49:42 < Sonja> and editing the toki pona wiki
23 Jan 2010 16:52:35 -!- niekie [i=quasselc@CAcert/Assurer/niekie] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 16:53:22 < lindar> No worries. You asked. I'm not going to give you a bad grade for not turning in your homework. <3<3
23 Jan 2010 16:53:57 < Twey> Hehe
23 Jan 2010 16:55:08 < Sonja> can i get an extension? :-O
23 Jan 2010 16:55:15 < Sonja> my dog ate it
23 Jan 2010 16:56:20 < lindar> xD
23 Jan 2010 16:56:20 -!- rossi [n=rossi@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-082.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 16:56:30 < rossi> coi rodo
23 Jan 2010 16:57:51 < lindar> Sonja: I'd like to see you translate the first paragraph of the tokipona wiki. "Toki Pona is a simple language designed to express the most, using the least. The entire language has only 123 words and 14 sounds. The grammar, although different from English, is very regular and easy to learn." =D
23 Jan 2010 16:58:37 < rossi> this was a triumph!
23 Jan 2010 16:59:57 < Sonja> what do you mean rossi?
23 Jan 2010 17:00:12 < Sonja> if i can translate that to lojban, it would be a triumph?
23 Jan 2010 17:00:21 < rossi> no
23 Jan 2010 17:00:27 < rossi> i just summarized my day
23 Jan 2010 17:00:29 < rossi> but
23 Jan 2010 17:00:41 < rossi> that translation would also be a triumph
23 Jan 2010 17:00:54 < rossi> so erase that no and put a yes there
23 Jan 2010 17:05:35 < djanatyn> ko na zbasu lo verba
23 Jan 2010 17:05:46 -!- klaid_ [n=klaid@ip68-226-71-131.cl.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
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23 Jan 2010 17:14:19 < Sonja> don't form a child by combining materials
23 Jan 2010 17:15:08 < donri> u'iga'i no sigja cu se dunda do doi la'oi Katt_jaCigg
23 Jan 2010 17:15:53 < Katt_jaCigg> donri: mi pramido <3
23 Jan 2010 17:15:55 < Twey> .u'i-sai
23 Jan 2010 17:16:18 < donri> doi rodo la kat pendo mi i ko rinsa
23 Jan 2010 17:16:41  * Twey mutce zanru le la .sonjas. xelfanva
23 Jan 2010 17:18:59 -!- Sonjaaa [n=sonjaaa@69-165-131-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 17:19:55 < Twey> Speaking of, Sonjaaa, are you /sonja/ or /sonʒa/?
23 Jan 2010 17:19:59 < Twey> I've always wondered.
23 Jan 2010 17:20:23 < donri> doxu sonci
23 Jan 2010 17:20:31 < donri> y dai
23 Jan 2010 17:20:58 < Twey> .ii-ru'e
23 Jan 2010 17:21:31 < Katt_jaCigg> hm, i don´t get a word of what you guys are saying...but im just donris minnion anyway! ^^
23 Jan 2010 17:21:52 < donri> oh come on, you produced fine lojban on facebook!
23 Jan 2010 17:21:54 < Twey> ko jimpe
23 Jan 2010 17:22:55 < Katt_jaCigg> donri: that took a lot of time and effort! well...ill give it a shot again i guess...^^
23 Jan 2010 17:23:19 < Twey> .ui .i'e
23 Jan 2010 17:24:24 < donri> Katt_jaCigg, /query makfa, and in that window write "q" (Q) followed an english or lojban word to look up in the dictionary
23 Jan 2010 17:28:07 < Katt_jaCigg> huh? (Q) or "q"?
23 Jan 2010 17:28:26 < donri> q, just saying it's a Q not a G or something :D
23 Jan 2010 17:28:44 < Katt_jaCigg> <3¨
23 Jan 2010 17:28:50 < donri> example: "q donri" to see what my name means
23 Jan 2010 17:31:07 < Sonjaaa> twey the former
23 Jan 2010 17:31:20 < Sonjaaa> i've never heard of a sonja pronounced with a fricative
23 Jan 2010 17:31:48 < Sonjaaa> i'm sonja elen kisa on facialbook
23 Jan 2010 17:32:16 -!- niekie [i=quasselc@CAcert/Assurer/niekie] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
23 Jan 2010 17:32:34 < Twey> I've heard /sondʒa/ a few times
23 Jan 2010 17:32:47 < Twey> Or /sɒndʒə/, I guess
23 Jan 2010 17:34:20 < Katt_jaCigg> mi cortu rinka memimoi tuple "I hurt my leg" wtf? THIS STUFF IS HARD!^^
23 Jan 2010 17:35:11 < donri> mi cortu lo tuple be mi
23 Jan 2010 17:35:16 < Sonjaaa> it's /ˈsonjə/
23 Jan 2010 17:35:17 < Katt_jaCigg> man!
23 Jan 2010 17:35:20 < Sonjaaa> in english
23 Jan 2010 17:35:27 < Katt_jaCigg> ill never learn this stuff
23 Jan 2010 17:35:43 < Sonjaaa> Katt_jaCigg yeah lojban is somewhat more complicated than toki pona
23 Jan 2010 17:36:29 < donri> Katt_jaCigg, see cortu means " x1 hurts/feels pain/hurt at locus x2", so {mi cortu lo tuple be mi} means "[mi] hurts/feels pain/hurt at locus [lo tuple be mi]"
23 Jan 2010 17:36:37 < Sonjaaa> hehe "locus"
23 Jan 2010 17:36:52 < donri> {mi} means "I/me"
23 Jan 2010 17:36:55 < Sonjaaa> why not just "place" ?
23 Jan 2010 17:37:00 < Sonjaaa> or "we"
23 Jan 2010 17:37:23 < donri> {lo tuple be mi} means "something that is a [it] is a/the leg [body-part] of [mi]"
23 Jan 2010 17:38:16 < donri> Sonjaaa, lojbanists suffer from logorrhea
23 Jan 2010 17:38:19 < Katt_jaCigg> i see the logik when you guys explain, just much harder to be doing it myself
23 Jan 2010 17:38:31 < donri> of course
23 Jan 2010 17:38:39 < donri> you haven't read any courses at all?
23 Jan 2010 17:40:12 < Sonjaaa> i'll write a Lojban to Toki Pona translator in Ruby
23 Jan 2010 17:40:17 < Sonjaaa> one day :P
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23 Jan 2010 17:41:24 < Katt_jaCigg> so, what you´re saying is that im basically supposed to say something like "me pain (location "lo"?) leg (be mi) ???
23 Jan 2010 17:41:42 < donri> i tried to write a toki pona grammar in treetop
23 Jan 2010 17:41:53 < Katt_jaCigg> i dont....ah! frustrations, i just feel stupid!^^
23 Jan 2010 17:42:14 -!- omologos [n=oscar@189.151.31.119] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 17:42:24 < omologos> coi rodo
23 Jan 2010 17:42:26 < donri> Katt_jaCigg, lojban doesn't have subjects and objects the way most languages (you know) do
23 Jan 2010 17:42:34 < omologos> .i xu do jundi doi lindar
23 Jan 2010 17:42:35 < donri> Katt_jaCigg, it's all about "predicates" with fixed, defined places
23 Jan 2010 17:42:42 < omologos> coi la donri
23 Jan 2010 17:42:44 < omologos> ui
23 Jan 2010 17:42:46 < donri> coi omologos
23 Jan 2010 17:42:51 < Sonjaaa> what is treetop?
23 Jan 2010 17:42:56 < donri> a peg parser for ruby
23 Jan 2010 17:43:03 < Sonjaaa> neat
23 Jan 2010 17:43:12 < donri> i failed though
23 Jan 2010 17:43:51 < Sonjaaa> are you very diurnal, donri?
23 Jan 2010 17:43:51 < donri> Katt_jaCigg, {mi} and {lo tuple} are "arguments", if you list them with the predicate "cortu" they, one by one, fill up those "x1, x2..." stuff
23 Jan 2010 17:44:18 < donri> not really, i actually have a sleep disorder so my circadian rhythm takes some 26 hours
23 Jan 2010 17:44:26 < donri> my swedish name is "dag" which means donri
23 Jan 2010 17:44:31 < Sonjaaa> i'm kinda screwed up that way too
23 Jan 2010 17:44:39 < Sonjaaa> but i take ADHD meds that help regulate my activity cycles
23 Jan 2010 17:44:52 < Sonjaaa> your swedish name as opposed to your name name?
23 Jan 2010 17:45:01 < donri> i'm likely adhd too but i have no diagnosis so no meds for me
23 Jan 2010 17:45:20 < donri> i'm swedish, so, not really opposed to anything :D
23 Jan 2010 17:45:23 < Sonjaaa> does "dag" also mean a 24h period?
23 Jan 2010 17:45:34 < donri> yea, although we tend to specify that with "dygn"
23 Jan 2010 17:45:38 < Sonjaaa> what's the root word for Swedish?
23 Jan 2010 17:45:55 < donri> in lojban? zvero, but it's experimental. most people use the loan word sfe'ero instead
23 Jan 2010 17:46:02 < Sonjaaa> cool
23 Jan 2010 17:46:10 < Sonjaaa> what does it take for zvero to become official root word?
23 Jan 2010 17:46:12 < Sonjaaa> sfe'ero
23 Jan 2010 17:46:36 < donri> i think the BPFK needs to finish all the work it needs to do, meaning never
23 Jan 2010 17:46:37 < donri> lol
23 Jan 2010 17:47:51 < donri> doesn't adhd meds make it even more difficult to sleep
23 Jan 2010 17:48:19 < Sonjaaa> not for me
23 Jan 2010 17:48:27 < Sonjaaa> i take one that releases consistently throughout the day
23 Jan 2010 17:48:36 < Sonjaaa> by the end of the day i'm happy to go to bed. i take melatonin tho.
23 Jan 2010 17:48:40 < donri> concerta eh
23 Jan 2010 17:48:46 < Sonjaaa> what's bpfk? the akademio de loĵbano?
23 Jan 2010 17:48:49 < Sonjaaa> yeah that one! :D
23 Jan 2010 17:48:53 < donri> ah yea, figures. melatonin is what i need too, likely.
23 Jan 2010 17:49:11 < Sonjaaa> if i don't take melatonin, sometimes i can still fall asleep, but the next day i am very irritable
23 Jan 2010 17:49:13 < donri> baupla fuzykamni, the language planning committee
23 Jan 2010 17:49:28 < Sonjaaa> it's strange how my body has no proper activity cycle regulation
23 Jan 2010 17:49:38 < Sonjaaa> i have to regulate it with consintent concerta and melatonin every day
23 Jan 2010 17:49:47 < Sonjaaa> otherwise i'm totally screwed up and unable to do pretty much anything
23 Jan 2010 17:50:11 < donri> i should do that too. but i have a myriad of other issues that make it difficult to even go to a doctor.
23 Jan 2010 17:50:12 < donri> :X
23 Jan 2010 17:50:19 < Sonjaaa> you can't see a doctor?
23 Jan 2010 17:50:27 < Sonjaaa> you live in sweden... land of good health care! :)
23 Jan 2010 17:51:00 < donri> i mean personal issues (depression, OCD, avoidant personality disorder (a form of more severe social phobia)...) lol
23 Jan 2010 17:51:35 < donri> but even so, there's like a six year waiting list to get examined for ADHD
23 Jan 2010 17:51:42 < donri> and no meds before that
23 Jan 2010 17:51:49 < donri> sweden \o/
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23 Jan 2010 17:54:35 < donri> and my family is like antimedicine so not really helpful
23 Jan 2010 17:54:43  * donri sob sob
23 Jan 2010 17:54:59 < Hugglesworth> good ol' hippy parents
23 Jan 2010 17:55:18 -!- niekie [i=quasselc@CAcert/Assurer/niekie] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 18:02:47  * Katt_jaCigg gives donri love
23 Jan 2010 18:03:28 < donri> YAY
23 Jan 2010 18:04:28 < Katt_jaCigg> so ppl....im noticing you´re talking issiues here...can someone tell me what the hell is wrong with me? ask donri...theres A LOT^^
23 Jan 2010 18:05:33 < donri> lol
23 Jan 2010 18:05:54 < donri> (we should really bring such discussions to #jbopre)
23 Jan 2010 18:06:34 < Katt_jaCigg> donri: *määäuuh* :P
23 Jan 2010 18:07:05 < Melvar> “?”?
23 Jan 2010 18:07:31 < donri> vaaaa
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23 Jan 2010 18:37:55 < Sonjaaa> what is #jbopre
23 Jan 2010 18:38:21 < djanatyn> #jbopre is where the cool lojbanists hang out.
23 Jan 2010 18:38:26 < djanatyn> It's the general discussion channel.
23 Jan 2010 18:41:19 < Sonjaaa> and pre is the combining form of which root word?
23 Jan 2010 18:41:48 < Sonjaaa> oh people
23 Jan 2010 18:43:07 < donri> "lojbo prenu"
23 Jan 2010 18:43:21 < donri> not a perfect word, but it has stuck
23 Jan 2010 18:43:30 < Sonjaaa> nothing wrong with it
23 Jan 2010 18:43:33 < Sonjaaa> Lojbanians
23 Jan 2010 18:43:52 < donri> but what does that mean? perhaps it's a good thing it's so general, for this purpose...
23 Jan 2010 18:44:07 < donri> but we like to be specific, when it doesn't mean too verbose :)
23 Jan 2010 18:44:09 < Sonjaaa> people who speak lojban, peolpe interested in lojban, etc
23 Jan 2010 18:44:15 < Sonjaaa> i like to be vague
23 Jan 2010 18:44:18 < donri> yea :D
23 Jan 2010 18:44:57 < sam_tceipn_> My feeling while learning Lojban is that it's pretty good at being vague.
23 Jan 2010 18:45:19 < sam_tceipn_> Better in some ways than English, where it's often awkward to speak without indicating things like tense and number.
23 Jan 2010 18:46:01 < sam_tceipn_> And a lot of lojban conversation is vaguer than you might expect, because you often speak in tanru composed of gismu that are more general than what you really mean.
23 Jan 2010 18:46:16 -!- Dessous [n=DaMan@a88-115-70-173.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Client Quit]
23 Jan 2010 18:46:39 < sam_tceipn_> The thing is that it's also good at being very precise on the (fairly rare) occasions when it's actually important.
23 Jan 2010 18:46:47 < sam_tceipn_> Which English often isn't.
23 Jan 2010 18:47:16 -!- mefistofeles [n=Tathar@unaffiliated/mefistofeles] has quit ["leaving"]
23 Jan 2010 18:47:50 < donri> yea, that's lojban for you, it often allows you to choose to be very vague or very specific without affecting verbosity or forcing weird constructs.... usually. :P
23 Jan 2010 18:48:36 < donri> i like to play around with that both ways, be vague in unusual ways, or verbose in unusual ways
23 Jan 2010 19:00:01 < lindar> Sex.
23 Jan 2010 19:00:47 < Hugglesworth> \o/
23 Jan 2010 19:01:04 < lindar> Sonjaaaaaaaaaa, how's the studying coming?
23 Jan 2010 19:01:29 < lindar> Also, donri, is this your pampe'o I see running about?
23 Jan 2010 19:01:56 < donri> sure, in the logical interpretation of that word. not the defined meaning.
23 Jan 2010 19:02:37 < donri> (that word suck. i suggest we accept boyfriend/girlfriend relationships are a form of speni.)
23 Jan 2010 19:03:21 -!- rossi [n=rossi@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-082.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit ["leaving"]
23 Jan 2010 19:05:16 < lindar> Huh.
23 Jan 2010 19:05:27 -!- omologos [n=oscar@189.151.31.119] has quit ["Leaving."]
23 Jan 2010 19:05:49 < lindar> Whaaaaaaatever. =D
23 Jan 2010 19:06:21 < lindar> .i xu do gletu ri vau zo'o ru'e
23 Jan 2010 19:15:56 < donri> ri ninmu
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23 Jan 2010 19:22:13 -!- Netsplit lindbohm.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: ivan, jeekl, Tene, GGLucas, lindar
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23 Jan 2010 19:42:07 < lindar> >_>
23 Jan 2010 19:42:20 < lindar> Netsplit and it was only me and an idler that got split.
23 Jan 2010 19:42:36 -!- jeekl [n=crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 19:42:36 < omologos> lindar: how is jbofanva going?
23 Jan 2010 19:42:41 -!- jeekl [n=crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has left #lojban []
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23 Jan 2010 19:42:50 < omologos> i'm sorry i haven't done anything usefull
23 Jan 2010 19:43:07 < lindar> Nah, s'okay.
23 Jan 2010 19:43:07 < omologos> but school has been very heavy this last weeks...
23 Jan 2010 19:43:36 < lindar> I've taken a bit of a break cos I burnt myself out on it. However, the first .po file is about 50% done.
23 Jan 2010 19:44:02 < omologos> and what's is a .po?
23 Jan 2010 19:44:22 < lindar> The translation source. It maps original source text to translated text.
23 Jan 2010 19:44:56 < lindar> I just have to un-fuzzy a few translations and then get some console-jockey lingo down.
23 Jan 2010 19:44:59 < omologos> i take it that they are listed by some priority order
23 Jan 2010 19:45:04 < lindar> I'll actually post those up right now, now that I think of it.
23 Jan 2010 19:45:22 < lindar> No, no priority, I just picked a small starter for gnome-desktop.
23 Jan 2010 19:45:40 < lindar> I'm just kinda going app by app starting with this one.
23 Jan 2010 19:46:00 < omologos> which would be that one?
23 Jan 2010 19:46:14 < omologos> can i download that file somewhere?
23 Jan 2010 19:51:33 < lindar> You can git the gnome-desktop directory and take a look at the .po file, but the jbo translation won't be in there.
23 Jan 2010 19:52:14 -!- datka [n=duck@24.33.242.63] has joined #lojban
23 Jan 2010 19:53:05 < neptunepink> foaly: coi, I've never seen you speak here, yet I see you on the lojban list.
23 Jan 2010 19:53:31 < lindar> I'm really more worried about developing a body of vocabulary that'll be uniform throughout the whole project. The fact that I'm translating anything right now is incidental as I really just needed something to give me a reference point.
23 Jan 2010 19:55:21 < lindar> Once we have a body of basic computer terminology, then I'll start delving out translations to people. The idea is that we get all the basic stuff out of the way so we don't have a million and a half terms we need to come up with along side more complex stuff like "X Server" and "Kernel Panic" and such.
23 Jan 2010 19:55:54 < lindar> I mean, there's nothing to stop you from grabbing shit from the git repository right now and translating anyway, but we have more pressing concerns at the moment.
23 Jan 2010 19:56:59 < lindar> Speaking of vocab! donri, what's the deal with this thing you were talking about with kribacr the other day? You said something about a vocab guide based on subject material?
23 Jan 2010 19:57:07 < lindar> >_< My feet stink, brb, shower.
23 Jan 2010 19:57:27 < donri> oh, don't expect me to get a lot done
23 Jan 2010 19:57:33 < donri> i'm just throwing around the idea
23 Jan 2010 19:57:50 < neptunepink> I wonder if translating of interfaces might make one wish they were set up differently.
23 Jan 2010 19:57:54 < lindar> Well, would it be easier if I started you off with a subject and threw words at you?
23 Jan 2010 19:57:54 < donri> gimste already has these unnamed categories http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Gismu+by+lesson
23 Jan 2010 19:58:13 < donri> we need to name those, and create some more overlapping ones
23 Jan 2010 19:58:14 < lindar> Cos I need somebody to really organise the computer terminology.
23 Jan 2010 19:58:28 < lindar> The new terminology, not the crappy stuff that we're using now.
23 Jan 2010 19:58:34 < neptunepink> oo, maybe my spanish textbook could help with that, it has a chapter on technologies.
23 Jan 2010 19:58:36 < donri> huh
23 Jan 2010 19:59:19 < neptunepink> The list, sir.
23 Jan 2010 20:01:20 < neptunepink> http://paste2.org/p/628803
23 Jan 2010 20:07:02 < neptunepink> Some of those terms already exist in Lojban.
23 Jan 2010 20:21:00 < foaly> powell
23 Jan 2010 20:21:11 < foaly> um
23 Jan 2010 20:21:16 < foaly> fail, sorry about that
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23 Jan 2010 20:26:36 < neptunepink> mi na malgli
23 Jan 2010 20:26:36 < tomoj> take eyes instead
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23 Jan 2010 20:27:11  * neptunepink lebna lo kanla be la tomoj
23 Jan 2010 20:27:35 < tomoj> hang on, my lojban is rusty :)
23 Jan 2010 20:27:51 < neptunepink> .ue
23 Jan 2010 20:28:14 < tomoj> hmm
23 Jan 2010 20:28:24 < tomoj> how can you attach inalienable possession to a selbri?
23 Jan 2010 20:28:31 < tomoj> I guess you can't, eh
23 Jan 2010 20:28:37 < neptunepink> there's a NOI for inalienables.
23 Jan 2010 20:28:53 < neptunepink> poi?
23 Jan 2010 20:29:12 < neptunepink> Maybe not, uhm
23 Jan 2010 20:29:19 < neptunepink> oh, it's GOI.
23 Jan 2010 20:29:35 < neptunepink> What's the diff between GOI and NOI?
23 Jan 2010 20:29:43 < tomoj> I don't want pro-sumti, do I?
23 Jan 2010 20:29:54 < tomoj> what I was thinking was {vo da kanla po'e mi}
23 Jan 2010 20:29:57 < tomoj> but that is ungrammatical
23 Jan 2010 20:30:05 < tomoj> there are four eyes which are mine
23 Jan 2010 20:30:10 < neptunepink> vo da po'e mi kanla ?
23 Jan 2010 20:30:19 < neptunepink> or, the vo da is?
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23 Jan 2010 20:30:24 < tomoj> aha
23 Jan 2010 20:30:29 < neptunepink> not really.
23 Jan 2010 20:30:30 < tomoj> I think that might be right
23 Jan 2010 20:31:37 < tomoj> oh, I see what you mean about GOI now
23 Jan 2010 20:31:38 < neptunepink> Well, let me know when there's a selbri for, "x1 is a gmail account of x2 with account name x3 for purpose x4"
23 Jan 2010 20:31:39 < tomoj> po'e is GOI
23 Jan 2010 20:32:12 < neptunepink> GOI takes a term, NOI takes a subsentence.
23 Jan 2010 20:32:17 < neptunepink> That is all.
23 Jan 2010 20:32:34 < tomoj> I don't know noi
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23 Jan 2010 20:32:53 < neptunepink> noi, poi, voi.
23 Jan 2010 20:33:04 < neptunepink> [NG]OI are incidental clauses.
23 Jan 2010 20:33:16 < neptunepink> *relative clauses
23 Jan 2010 20:33:41 < neptunepink> They have different elidable terminators as well.
23 Jan 2010 20:33:48 < tomoj> so you can put GOI after da?
23 Jan 2010 20:33:55 < neptunepink> dyah
23 Jan 2010 20:34:44 < tomoj> "In Lojban, a variable ``da'', ``de'', or ``di'' may be followed by a ``poi'' relative clause in order to restrict the range of things that the variable describes. "
23 Jan 2010 20:34:46 < tomoj> hmm
23 Jan 2010 20:35:21 < neptunepink> A sumti may be followed by a relative clause.
23 Jan 2010 20:35:42 < neptunepink> sumti = sumti-1 [VUhO # relative-clauses]
23 Jan 2010 20:36:02 < tomoj> da counts as a sumti for that?
23 Jan 2010 20:37:00 < neptunepink> the da series are KOhA.
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23 Jan 2010 22:47:31 < nonporous> ma mo ma ma ma?
23 Jan 2010 23:08:59 < lindar> o_O
23 Jan 2010 23:09:31 < lindar> zo ? lerfu fi ma
23 Jan 2010 23:19:09 < Hugglesworth> lo malgli
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24 Jan 2010 01:17:27 < lindar> Face.
24 Jan 2010 01:18:37 < timonator> is that also a good conversation starter in a bar?
24 Jan 2010 01:23:38 < lindar> yep
24 Jan 2010 01:23:50 < lindar> Timo, you're silly.
24 Jan 2010 01:23:59 < timonator> oh i know
24 Jan 2010 01:24:07 < lindar> Do you know how to use {ki}? I'm still slightly lost on that one.
24 Jan 2010 01:24:19 < timonator> never did any story telling
24 Jan 2010 01:24:31 < timonator> but i suppose the tense you stick it after gets stickied until the next ni'o
24 Jan 2010 01:24:47 < timonator> i sent a girl an sms (that's what we call it here) suggesting a meeting to feed the ducks or maybe go freeclimb
24 Jan 2010 01:24:59 < lindar> Nice!
24 Jan 2010 01:25:12 < lindar> SMS is the proper name for 'texting'.
24 Jan 2010 01:25:47 < timonator> not in america it aint
24 Jan 2010 01:25:48 < lindar> In the states they say "I texted ..." which is very stupid. The more grammar-friendly version is "I sent X a text ...".
24 Jan 2010 01:27:11 -!- ambisinistrous is now known as Elench
24 Jan 2010 01:29:20 < lindar> Well, unless somebody has something vastly interesting to say or wants to chat on Mumble, I'm going to finish up S3 of Red Dwarf.
24 Jan 2010 01:30:34 < timonator> noope
24 Jan 2010 01:30:40 < lindar> Okay. <3
24 Jan 2010 01:30:52 < treed> lindar: Verbing weirds language, but we do it anyway.
24 Jan 2010 01:31:03 < lindar> xD
24 Jan 2010 01:31:08 < treed> also ITYM "I sent X a text message."
24 Jan 2010 01:31:18 < treed> Which is fucking long.
24 Jan 2010 01:31:31 < treed> And for shit we say all the time, I think it's reasonable to concoct a shorter form.
24 Jan 2010 01:31:49 < treed> "text" was unused as a verb and is easily connectable
24 Jan 2010 01:31:59 < treed> So, in summary: FOAD
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24 Jan 2010 02:00:39 < EnglishGent> hello all :)
24 Jan 2010 02:07:21 < vensa> coi la'oi EnglishGent
24 Jan 2010 02:09:05 < timonator> coi do
24 Jan 2010 02:09:56 < vensa> doi timonator doi ma (can I say that?)
24 Jan 2010 02:11:40 < timonator> yeah, why not?
24 Jan 2010 02:11:47 < timonator> but what do you mean? hello timo, hello who?
24 Jan 2010 02:11:52 < vensa> dunno... too many doi's...
24 Jan 2010 02:12:08 < vensa> I wanted to ask who are you addressing (in a short way)
24 Jan 2010 02:12:45 < EnglishGent> coi vensa :)
24 Jan 2010 02:12:54 < vensa> coi
24 Jan 2010 02:13:11 < vensa> perhaps I should say "doi ma di'u" or something like that?
24 Jan 2010 02:13:33 < vensa> "to whom is the last utterance addressed?"
24 Jan 2010 02:15:02 < vensa> doi la'oi EnglishGent do briti milxe bo nanmu vau xu
24 Jan 2010 02:15:39 < vensa> lo'ai briti sa'ai glico le'ai
24 Jan 2010 02:17:55 < EnglishGent> um - sorry, I've only had 1 lojban lesson so far
24 Jan 2010 02:18:02 < EnglishGent> so I dont know what that means vensa :)
24 Jan 2010 02:18:16 < vensa> I see... np :)
24 Jan 2010 02:18:58 < vensa> I was just making a Lojban "joke" asking if you were an english-kind-of-gentle-kind-of-man
24 Jan 2010 02:19:18 < vensa> how are the lessons going so far?
24 Jan 2010 02:19:33 < vensa> are you taking lessons here or reading the online course?