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BPFK Section: gadri

Proposed definitions

 

lo (LE)
Generic article. It converts a selbri, selecting its first argument, into a sumti. The resulting expression refers generically to any or some individual or individuals that fit as the first argument of the selbri. An inner quantifier can be used to indicate the number of individuals. An outer quantifier can be used to quantify distributively over such individuals.

lo rozgu cu xunre
Roses are red.

xu ro lo rozgu cu xunre i na go'i i mu'a su'o lo rozgu cu pelxu
Is every rose red? No, some roses are yellow, for example.

lo tadni cu sruri le dinju gi'e krixa
Students are surrounding the building and yelling.

ko'a pu lebna lo xanlai pe lo cmananba gi'e dunda ciboi cy mi
He grabbed a handful of biscuits and gave me three.

ca ro nu mi rere'u catlu lo skina kei mi cpacu lo so'i se cusku poi mi na cpacu ca lo pamoi
Every time I see a movie for the second time I get all this dialogue that I missed the first time.

ei lo verba cu mutce fraxu lo makcu prenu
Children should show great forbearance toward grown-up people.

ku'i uinai mi na viska lo lanme pa'o lo bitmu be fo lo tanxe i ju'ocu'i mi milxe simsa lo makcu prenu
But I, alas, do not see sheep through the walls of boxes. Perhaps I am a little like the grown-ups.

ca lo nicte lo cinfo cu kalte lo cidja
At night lions hunt for food.

lo pa pixra cu se vamji lo ki'o valsi
One picture is worth a thousand words.

de'i li 1960 lo pare sovda cu fepni li 42
In 1960 a dozen eggs cost 42 cents.

cimai lo ctuca cu fendi lo selctu lo mu gunma be lo vo tadni
Step 3: The teacher will divide the class into five groups of four students.

lo bidjylinsi pe lo ze seldri cu se pagbu ze gunma be lo ze bidju be'o e ji'a ci bidju e lo kucyga'asni
The Rosary of the Seven Sorrows consists of seven groups of seven beads, with three additional beads and a Crucifix.

ro lo bidjylinsi pe le ze seldri cu se pagbu ze lo gunma be lo ze bidju be'o e ji'a ci lo bidju e pa lo kucyga'asni
Every Rosary of the Seven Sorrows consists of seven groups of seven beads, with three additional beads and exactly one Crucifix.

lo sanli darxi bo dakli cu culno lo djacu onai lo canre to lo djacu cu pukmau ki'u lo nu slilu tolcando toi gi'e bunda li ji'i 270
Standing punching bags are filled with water or sand - water being preferable because of the wave-motion created - and weigh about 270lbs.

lo pavyseljirna cu ranmi danlu gi'e simlu lo ka ge ce'u xirma gi lo pa jirna cu cpana lo mebri be ce'u
Unicorns are mythical creatures that look like a horse with a horn coming out of their foreheads.

re lo so plini cu zmadu le terdi lo ka ce'u jibni le solri
Two of the nine planets are closer to the Sun than the Earth.

le (LE)
Specific article. It converts a selbri, selecting its first argument, into a sumti. The resulting expression refers specifically to an individual or individuals that the speaker has in mind and which the speaker describes as fitting the first argument of the selbri. An inner quantifier can be used to indicate the number of individuals. An outer quantifier can be used to quantify distributively over those individuals.

le palta ba'o porpi i ma gasnu i xu le gerku cu go'i
The dish is broken. Who did it? Was it the dog?

ko punji le sicni ja'e lo porsi be lo vamrai ku bi'o lo vamtolrai
Put the coins in order from greatest to least value.

ci le bi ctuca cu ninmu
Three of the eight teachers are women.

le va ninmu cu mutce melbi iku'i ca'a nanmu gi'e nelci lo nu ninmu dasni
That woman is very beautiful, but she's actually a man who likes to dress as a woman.

o'i mu xagji sofybakni cu zvati le purdi
Caution! There are five hungry Soviet cows in the garden.

 

la (LA)
Name article. It converts a selbri, selecting its first argument, or any string of cmevla into a sumti. The resulting expression refers specifically to an individual or individuals that the speaker has in mind and which the speaker names with the selbri or cmevla. An inner quantifier can be used (in the case of a selbri) as part of the name. An outer quantifier can be used to quantify distributively over those individuals.

ma'i la midju terdi la sadam na sai me la sauron
In Middle Earth-terms, Saddam is by no means a 'Sauron'.

la ci bakni ku poi gusta bu'u la kaiapois cu banli ge lo ka vanbi gi lo ka cidja
The Three Cows Restaurant in Kaiapoi is a wonderful place, both atmosphere and food-wise.

ci la magdonaldz cu jibni le mi briju
There are three McDonald's near my office.

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loi (LE)
Generic mass article. It converts a selbri, selecting its first argument, into a sumti. The resulting expression refers generically to a group or groups of individuals that fit the first argument of the selbri and which collectively satisfy the predicate for which the sumti is an argument. An inner quantifier can be used to indicate the cardinality of the group or groups. An outer quantifier can be used to quantify distributively over such groups. A fractional outer quantifier can be used to select a subgroup and indicate its cardinality as a fraction of the cardinality of the group.

loi litru ti jmaji lo ro pagbu be le terdi
Tourists gather here from all over the world.

loi so'i tadni cu sruri le dinju i so'i le tadni cu krixa
Many students are surrounding the building. Many of the students are yelling.

lo mulno kardygri cu gunma lo vo loi paci karda
A full deck consists of four groups of thirteen cards.

lei (LE)
Specific mass article. It converts a selbri, selecting its first argument, into a sumti. The resulting expression refers specifically to a group of individuals that the speaker has in mind and describes as fitting the first argument of the selbri and which collectively satisfy the predicate for which the sumti is an argument. An inner quantifier can be used to indicate the cardinality of the group. An outer quantifier can be used to quantify distributively over such groups. A fractional outer quantifier can be used to select a subgroup and indicate its cardinality as a fraction of the cardinality of the group.

lei brazo cu jinga fi lei dotco la kabri
The Brazilians beat the Germans for the Cup.

lai (LA)
Name mass article. It converts a selbri, selecting its first argument, or any string of cmevla into a sumti. The resulting expression refers specifically to a group of individuals that the speaker has in mind and names with the selbri or cmevla and which collectively satisfy the predicate for which the sumti is an argument. An inner quantifier can be used (in the case of a selbri) as part of the name. An outer quantifier can be used to quantify distributively over such groups. A fractional outer quantifier can be used to select a subgroup and indicate its cardinality as a fraction of the cardinality of the group.

ta melbi pixra lai simpson
That's a nice photograph of the Simpsons.

lo'i (LE)
Generic set article. It converts a selbri, selecting its first argument, into a sumti. The resulting expression refers generically to a set or sets of individuals that fit the first argument of the selbri. An inner quantifier can be used to indicate the cardinality of the set. An outer quantifier can be used to quantify distributively over such sets. A fractional outer quantifier can be used to select a subset and indicate its cardinality as a fraction of the cardinality of the set.

ma cnano lo junta lo'i cifnu poi cazi jbena
What is the normal weight of a baby at childbirth?

le'i (LE)
Specific set article. It converts a selbri, selecting its first argument, into a sumti. The resulting expression refers specifically to the set of individuals that the speaker has in mind and describes as fitting the first argument of the selbri. An inner quantifier can be used to indicate the cardinality of the set. An outer quantifier can be used to quantify distributively over such sets. A fractional outer quantifier can be used to select a subset and indicate its cardinality as a fraction of the cardinality of the set.

ro le verba pu cuxna pa karda le'i cnita selcra
Each child chose a card from the face-down collection.

la'i (LA)
Name set article. It converts a selbri, selecting its first argument, or any string of cmevla into a sumti. The resulting expression refers specifically to the set of individuals that the speaker has in mind and names with the selbri or cmevla. An inner quantifier can be used (in the case of a selbri) as part of the name. An outer quantifier can be used to quantify distributively over such sets. A fractional outer quantifier can be used to select a subset and indicate its cardinality as a fraction of the cardinality of the set.

doi turni do so'i da na fadni la'i kenedis ma'i lo jecra'a
Governor, in many respects, you're not a typical Kennedy politically.

 

Formal definitions

 

LE, LA
lo [PA] broda zo'e noi ke'a broda [gi'e zilkancu li PA lo broda]
le [PA] broda zo'e noi mi ke'a do skicu lo ka ce'u broda [gi'e zilkancu li PA lo broda]
la [PA] broda zo'e noi lu [PA] broda li'u cmene ke'a mi
lo PA sumti lo PA me sumti
le PA sumti le PA me sumti
la PA sumti zo'e noi lu PA sumti li'u cmene ke'a mi
loi [PA] broda lo gunma be lo [PA] broda
lei [PA] broda lo gunma be le [PA] broda
lai [PA] broda lo gunma be la [PA] broda
loi PA sumti lo gunma be lo PA sumti
lei PA sumti lo gunma be le PA sumti
lai PA sumti lo gunma be la PA sumti
lo'i [PA] broda lo selcmi be lo [PA] broda
le'i [PA] broda lo selcmi be le [PA] broda
la'i [PA] broda lo selcmi be la [PA] broda
lo'i PA sumti lo selcmi be lo PA sumti
le'i PA sumti lo selcmi be le PA sumti
la'i PA sumti lo selcmi be la PA sumti

 

Quantified terms
PA sumti PA da poi ke'a me sumti
PA broda PA da poi broda
piPA sumti lo piPA si'e be pa me sumti
piPA

 

Summary

 

CmavoArticleKey phraseOuter quantifierInner quantifierDefault quantifier
loGenericfitsdistributive over individualsnumber of individuals not necessarily all that existnone
leSpecificdescribed asdistributive over individualsnumber of individualsnone
laNamenamed withdistributive over individualspart of the namenone
loiGeneric massfit and collectively satisfyselects subgroupnumber of individuals not necessarily all that existnone
leiSpecific massdescribed as and collectively satisfyselects subgroupnumber of individualsnone
laiName massnamed with and collectively satisfyselects subgrouppart of the namenone
lo'iGeneric sethas only members that fitselects subsetcardinality of set not necessarily all that existnone
le'iSpecific sethas only members described asselects subsetcardinality of setnone
la'iName sethas only members named withselects subsetpart of the namenone

changes from CLL are shown in red

Notes

 

  • An individual can be anything, including a group, a set, a substance, a number, etc. {lo broda} can refer to one or more individuals. {lo'i broda} can refer only to those individuals that are sets. {loi broda} can refer only to those individuals that are groups ('masses').

 

  • Any term without an explicit outer quantifier is a constant, i.e. not a quantified term. This means that it refers to one or more individuals, and changing the order in which the constant term appears with respect to a negation or with respect to a quantified term will not change the meaning of the sentence. A constant is something that always keeps the same referent or referents. For example {lo broda} always refers to brodas. In {mu da poi broda zo'u da brode}, "da" is a quantified variable, bound by the quantifier mu, and it takes its values from the set of all things that broda. (Within the scope of the quantifier, it acts as a constant term, but it cannot escape as a constant out of that scope.) Any term with a quantifier in front takes values from the set of things over which the quantifier runs. When an unquantified term is quantified, the quantifier runs over the referents of the unquantified term.

 

  • CLL says about default quantifiers:
    There are rules for each of the 11 descriptors specifying what the implicit values for the inner and outer quantifiers are. They are meant to provide sensible default values when context is absent, not necessarily to prescribe hard and fast rules. The following table lists the implicit values:
    The proposed definitions take the view that the most sensible default value when no explicit quantification is given is no quantification at all and that the unquantified terms are constants.

 

  • http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/6bab580f0b098348
    • loi/lei quantifier debate

 

  • http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/92df4eed2d387cfa
    • more jbodau

 

Usage convention suggestions

 

  • To refer to substances, lo/le/la without any quantifier are appropriate. The number {tu'o} could be used as inner quantifier to emphasize that no cardinality applies.

le nanmu cu se snuti ija'ebo lo tu'o gerku cu kuspe le klaji
The guy had an accident and there was dog all over the road.

  • A substance can also be seen as made up of component parts, and this can even be true in a physical sense: the water in a puddle of rain got there drop by drop. If you look from far enough away, you can't tell whether the "sailor all over the deck" is literally goo, or just an aggregation of sailors standing still. So a substance may be treated as a group made up of individuals without worrying about which individuals they are.

 

Impact

 

  • Positive impact: Some usages that make little sense with {lo} = {su'o} become validated. Examples:

 
bilga lenu jdice lenu roroi pilno lo mokla tirxe (to zoigy. velar gy. toi) jonai crane (to zoigy. alveolar gy. toi)
tavla fi le tutra pe le terdi

le cmana lo cidja ba claxu
In the mountains there is no food.
lapoi pelxu ku'o trajynobli

le dargu pe lo xamgu bangu cu kargu
The road of the good language is costly.
lapoi pelxu ku'o trajynobli

la jyryr. tolkien. cu te cukta la djine turni (to la'o gy Lord of the Rings gy toi) .e le so'omoi be lo xanri munje lisri ca le lampru na'acto
tenguar

  • Negative impact: It is conceivable that some usages become more vague than intended if the default quantifiers played an important role in some expression, such as interactions between su'o and na, but it is hard to determine. If someone finds examples where this happens please report them.

 

Issues

  • lei quantification discussion(external link)
  • This may already be covered here, but I (rlpowell) want to report something mentioned by PC, for future reference: Quite another problem with the cited reference. It seems to say that {ro lo rozgu} and {ro rozgu} are equivalent, as I hope they are not. The first talks about each and every one of a bunch of roses (which roses to be worked out from context if necessary) while the second talks about each and every rose, period, essentially {ro da poi rozgu}, so not equivalent (as far as I can tell).

 

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Created by xorxes. Last Modification: Sunday 08 of June, 2014 19:12:48 GMT by mukti.