WikiDiscuss

WikiDiscuss


On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:34:22 +0200 (CEST), Arnt Richard Johansen
<arj@nvg.org> wrote:
> >> mi'a ca nelci le cmalu trene semau le sorprekarce
> >> We like the small train, more so than the bus.
>
> Gee, I see the problem. IIRC that was from actual usage. I'll try to think
> up an example that uses it the right way. (If *you* could give a good
> example, that would be swell.)

That same example with {ne semau} instead of {semau} would be kosher.

If you want one without {ne}, perhaps something like:

mi'a litru semau lo nu stali le zdani
We travel more than we stay at home.

> Is it possible/likely that this vagueness could be intentional on the part
> of those who added {mau}? (I am especially asking for oldbie input on this
> one.)

CLL explicitly eschews it.

mu'o mi'e xorxes



Arnt Richard Johansen scripsit:

> Gee, I see the problem. IIRC that was from actual usage. I'll try to think
> up an example that uses it the right way. (If *you* could give a good
> example, that would be swell.)

Alice likes Bob more than Charlie (likes Bob) vs. Alice likes Bob more
than (Alice likes) Charlie.

> Is it possible/likely that this vagueness could be intentional on the part
> of those who added {mau}? (I am especially asking for oldbie input on this
> one.)

No, we realized there was a problem. It's best resolved by not attempting
to use semau (and friends) to create bridi places directly, but rather to
hook them using ne to the appropriate terbri:

la alis. ne semau la tcarlis. nelci la bab.
la alis. nelci la bab. ne semau la tcarlis.

--
Said Agatha Christie / To E. Philips Oppenheim John Cowan
"Who is this Hemingway? / Who is this Proust? jcowan@reutershealth.com
Who is this Vladimir / Whatchamacallum, http://www.reutershealth.com
This neopostrealist / Rabble?" she groused. http://www.ccil.org/cowan
--author unknown to me; any suggestions?



posts: 2388


> Arnt Richard Johansen scripsit:
>
> > Gee, I see the problem. IIRC that was from
> actual usage. I'll try to think
> > up an example that uses it the right way. (If
> *you* could give a good
> > example, that would be swell.)
>
> Alice likes Bob more than Charlie (likes Bob)
> vs. Alice likes Bob more
> than (Alice likes) Charlie.
>
> > Is it possible/likely that this vagueness
> could be intentional on the part
> > of those who added {mau}? (I am especially
> asking for oldbie input on this
> > one.)
>
> No, we realized there was a problem. It's best
> resolved by not attempting
> to use semau (and friends) to create bridi
> places directly, but rather to
> hook them using ne to the appropriate terbri:
>
> la alis. ne semau la tcarlis. nelci la bab.
> la alis. nelci la bab. ne semau la tcarlis.
>
Good; this is the obvious solution — properly
implemented. But, as I asked before, how do we
do this in afterthought mode — a fairly typical
situation? Come to that, how do we toss on
afterthought modifications of any sort?



posts: 2388


> Arnt Richard Johansen scripsit:
>
> > Gee, I see the problem. IIRC that was from
> actual usage. I'll try to think
> > up an example that uses it the right way. (If
> *you* could give a good
> > example, that would be swell.)
>
> Alice likes Bob more than Charlie (likes Bob)
> vs. Alice likes Bob more
> than (Alice likes) Charlie.
>
> > Is it possible/likely that this vagueness
> could be intentional on the part
> > of those who added {mau}? (I am especially
> asking for oldbie input on this
> > one.)
>
> No, we realized there was a problem. It's best
> resolved by not attempting
> to use semau (and friends) to create bridi
> places directly, but rather to
> hook them using ne to the appropriate terbri:
>
> la alis. ne semau la tcarlis. nelci la bab.
> la alis. nelci la bab. ne semau la tcarlis.
>
Good; this is the obvious solution — properly
implemented. But, as I asked before, how do we
do this in afterthought mode — a fairly typical
situation? Come to that, how do we toss on
afterthought modifications of any sort?



posts: 2388


wrote:
>
> --- John Cowan <jcowan@reutershealth.com>
> wrote:
> > Arnt Richard Johansen scripsit:
> >
> > > Gee, I see the problem. IIRC that was from
> > actual usage. I'll try to think
> > > up an example that uses it the right way.
> (If
> > *you* could give a good
> > > example, that would be swell.)
> >
> > Alice likes Bob more than Charlie (likes Bob)
> > vs. Alice likes Bob more
> > than (Alice likes) Charlie.
> >
> > > Is it possible/likely that this vagueness
> > could be intentional on the part
> > > of those who added {mau}? (I am especially
> > asking for oldbie input on this
> > > one.)
> >
> > No, we realized there was a problem. It's
> best
> > resolved by not attempting
> > to use semau (and friends) to create bridi
> > places directly, but rather to
> > hook them using ne to the appropriate terbri:
> >
> > la alis. ne semau la tcarlis. nelci la bab.
> > la alis. nelci la bab. ne semau la tcarlis.
> >
> Good; this is the obvious solution — properly
> implemented. But, as I asked before, how do we
> do this in afterthought mode — a fairly
> typical
> situation? Come to that, how do we toss on
> afterthought modifications of any sort?
>
Here the "obvious" solution is to use FA and the
modification wanted. This seems to work with
some forms — sumti: "John went the store — the
short one (John)" {la djan klama le zarci fa le
tordu} — but not with most others, even {po'u
le tordu} the likely intention of the acceptable
form. And certainly not with something like {se
mau} (or even {ne semau}). I suspect there is a
work-around here, short of repeating the original
sumti or its pronoun (though that latter is not
too bad), but it is beyond my knoledge for
fiddling.



posts: 14214

Non-jbovlaste word:

klanrbeli

-Robin

posts: 14214


mi zbasu lo zdani te po'i lo bliku
I build a house out of blocks.

Has the "a sane person would use the x3 of zbasu" problem. I have
no better suggestion at this time, however.

-Robin


posts: 14214

I apologize for all the complaining I did about my words; you had to
do *ci'u*. JFCOAC1.

-Robin

1: Jesus Fucking Christ On A Crutch.


> Examples of se la'u Usage
>
> le nolraitru to ri poi tcetcetcetce clani se la'u so'i
> sai mitre be li pa no no toi
> The king (who's really tall, hundreds of metres).

{se la'u} should tag a number, {la'u} is for things like
meters. For example:

le nolraitru cu clani se la'u li so'i te la'u lo se gradu
be lo mitre be li pa no no

> Examples of ji'e Usage
> None found. Constructed example follows:
>
> do ka'e snada ji'e po'o lo se djica be do
> Your ability to succeed is limited only by what you desire.
> You can succeed in whatever you want.

The limit here is to snada, not to ka'e:
"It is possible that your success is limited by what you want."

To limit the ability, the selbri should be {kakne}:

do kakne lo nu snada kei ji'e po'o...

mu'o mi'e xorxes


posts: 14214

On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 01:01:20PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> > Examples of se la'u Usage
> >
> > le nolraitru to ri poi tcetcetcetce clani se la'u so'i
> > sai mitre be li pa no no toi
> > The king (who's really tall, hundreds of metres).
>
> {se la'u} should tag a number, {la'u} is for things like
> meters. For example:
>
> le nolraitru cu clani se la'u li so'i te la'u lo se gradu
> be lo mitre be li pa no no

Cool. Thanks.

> > Examples of ji'e Usage
> > None found. Constructed example follows:
> >
> > do ka'e snada ji'e po'o lo se djica be do
> > Your ability to succeed is limited only by what you desire.
> > You can succeed in whatever you want.
>
> The limit here is to snada, not to ka'e:
> "It is possible that your success is limited by what you want."

I don't see much semantic difference there, actually, except in the
first English translation mentioning abilit.

> To limit the ability, the selbri should be {kakne}:
>
> do kakne lo nu snada kei ji'e po'o...

Done.

-Robin


posts: 14214

Errrm, except this is Arnt's section...

I'll leave it alone, and he can change it back if he wants.

-Robin

On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 12:14:49PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 01:01:20PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> > > Examples of se la'u Usage
> > >
> > > le nolraitru to ri poi tcetcetcetce clani se la'u so'i
> > > sai mitre be li pa no no toi
> > > The king (who's really tall, hundreds of metres).
> >
> > {se la'u} should tag a number, {la'u} is for things like
> > meters. For example:
> >
> > le nolraitru cu clani se la'u li so'i te la'u lo se gradu
> > be lo mitre be li pa no no
>
> Cool. Thanks.
>
> > > Examples of ji'e Usage
> > > None found. Constructed example follows:
> > >
> > > do ka'e snada ji'e po'o lo se djica be do
> > > Your ability to succeed is limited only by what you desire.
> > > You can succeed in whatever you want.
> >
> > The limit here is to snada, not to ka'e:
> > "It is possible that your success is limited by what you want."
>
> I don't see much semantic difference there, actually, except in the
> first English translation mentioning abilit.
>
> > To limit the ability, the selbri should be {kakne}:
> >
> > do kakne lo nu snada kei ji'e po'o...
>
> Done.
>
> -Robin
>
>
>

--
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Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!"
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