WikiDiscuss

WikiDiscuss


BPFK Section: Inexact Numbers

posts: 1912


pc:
> --- Jorge Llambías wrote:
> > PA lo broda = PA da poi ke'a me lo broda
> > = PA da poi ke'a broda
>
> I see, it is the PA that merits a quantifier, not
> the {lo}. I would get rid of the quantifiers for
> quantifiers, but that is another issue.

Quantifiers for quantifiers?

> > OK. So in your system, {ko'a goi lo'i broda}
> > assigns a different
> > referent to {ko'a} than {ko'a goi lo selcmi be
> > lo broda}. In other
> > words, you would have {lo'i broda} be a set in
> > a metalanguage sense,
> > not a set in the normal sense.
>
> I don't get the difference you claim is involved.
> A set of broda is an abstract structure which
> has brodas as members. This is the normal sense,
> so far as I can see, and is my sense. What is a
> metalanguage set?

I meant that when you use {lo'i broda} you are talking
about brodas, and the set talk only enters into it when
you explain what you are saying about the brodas, whereas
when you use {lo selcmi} you are actually talking about a
set, for example when explaining what {lo'i broda} means
one would talk about sets.

However, I am not sure how tenable that is. If I use your
exansions on:

lo'i plise cu du lo selcmi be lo plise

I get:

[Ex: x is a set & [[Ay: y is a member of x] y plise]
[Ez: z is a group & [[Aw: w in z] w selcmi be lo plise] x = z

which seems true enough, unless being "a set" whose members
are all plise is not the same as being "selcmi be lo plise".


> {lo te cuxna} refers to (a group of)some number
> things from which choices can be made, {lo'i
> karda} refers to one such thing, an unspecified
> set of cards.

Consider {lo pa te cuxna} vs. {lo'i karda} then.
Or {le pa te cuxna} vs. {le'i karda}.

{ko'a goi le pa te cuxna} and {ko'a goi le'i karda}
would seem to assign the same referent to {ko'a},
the one set of choices, the one set of cards.
But a quantifier on {le'i karda} gets you a subset,
whereas a quantifier on {le pa te cuxna} does not.
So to know how a quantifier acts on {ko'a} you need
to know not only the referent assigned to {ko'a}
(the same in both cases) but also the expression
used to assign that referent to {ko'a}.

> "One of the things
> from which choices may be made" is not the same
> as "one of the things which may be chosen."

Right, those are:

pa le te cuxna
"One of the things from which choices may be made."

pa le (ka'e) se cuxna
"One of the things which may be chosen."

I don't think we disagree about those. But in
your system:

le'i karda = le te cuxna

and:

pa le'i karda =/= pa le te cuxna

mu'o mi'e xorxes





___
Do you Yahoo!?
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
http://messenger.yahoo.com