WikiDiscuss

pc:
> > > I would get rid of the quantifiers for
> > > quantifiers, but that is another issue.
> >
> > Quantifiers for quantifiers?
>
> Yes; although Lojban is based syntactically on
> formal logic, there is only an occasional
> correlation between the two in regard particular
> categories. For example, as you know, I would
> replace quantifiers in descriptions by redicates
> in most cases and by quite different quantifiers
> in the rest.

I can't really say I know that. You have said things
like that, but I'm not sure whether you consider them
to be practical definitions for lojban or whether you
intend them as material for LoCCan3. In any case, it is
hard to judge without having the full story spelled out.
For example, would you keep {su'o}, {ro}, {no} as true
quantifiers, or would these too turn into descriptions?

> To be
> sure, it is difficult to separate a singleton
> group and its one member, since they have so many
> properties in common, yet they are ontologically
> distinct.

So in your lojban you would have no way of referring to
an individual card. The closest you could get is the singleton
group that contains it, {le pa karda}.

{le'i karda} is an individual set of cards.
{le pa te cuxna} is a group containing the individual set of cards.
{le pa karda} is a group containing a single card.

So we can refer directly to a single set of cards, {le'i karda},
but there is no way to refer directly to a single card.

> This is one place, by the way, where plural
> quantification is clearer than groups. Your
> comments would have more force if applied to that
> situation, although several cards taken
> collectively, say, would still be different from
> the set with exactly them as members. But in
> that case, we should probably not use sets at all
> and {le karda} and {le te cuxna} would in this
> context be the same — and selections from them
> would be cards (though you would have to know the
> whole contexts to know this).

Exactly. That's why I don't use sets, they don't add
anything.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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