WikiDiscuss

WikiDiscuss


BPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita

posts: 1912

Robin:
> I'd like to work on coming up with a general template for
> non-special case BAI / SE BAI and BAI NAI.

I'd like a general template for all tags, not just BAIs,
along the lines of the one I propose in
BPFK Section: sumtcita Formants
<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=BPFK+Section%3A+sumtcita+Formants>

> I am rather concerned about the BAI NAI case, because the causals use
> "despite"
> and "nevertheless", but the only two non-causal cases are utterly different:
>
> semaunai — not more than
>
> seme'anai — not less than
>
> This is *very* different from:
>
> ri'anai — despite cause
>
> The former seem to mean "BAI + NAI lo broda" == "BAI lo na broda", but the
> latter seems to be something more like "BAI + NAI" == "BAI + ku'i".
>
> The two cases above make *much* more sense with what NAI is supposed to mean,
> but would break the "despite" cases entirely if followed as a general rule.
>
> I can't make "despite" in my mind mean the same thing as "not caused by",
> which
> is what it seems that "ri'a nai" should mean.
>
> Suggestions?

Every BAI can be written as {fi'o broda} for some suitable broda.
(This can be extended to every tag, but in the case of BAIs the
broda is always already given.)

For {BAI nai}, all we need to do is find the corresponding
{broda}.

mau = fi'o zmadu
maunai - fi'o na'e zmadu
ri'a - fi'o rinka ("x1 causes x2")
ri'anai - fi'o na'e fanta ("x1 doesn't prevent x2")

{rinka} and {fanta} are also somewhat related by negation:

ko'a fanta lo nu broda = ko'a rinka lo nu na broda

So {ri'anai} = {fi'o na'e fanta} is not completely illogical,
but it is somewhat weird, because it takes two negations
to go from "because of" to "in spite of". They are in fact
the dual of each other, but {nai} is not usually used to
get the dual.

mu'o mi'e xorxes




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