WikiDiscuss

WikiDiscuss


Controversial points in the morphology

posts: 953

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005, Robin Lee Powell wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 11:11:09PM +0100, Arnt Richard Johansen
> wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 wikidiscuss@lojban.org wrote:
>>
>>> Re: Controversial points in the morphology
>>>
>>> Issue5: doi-la-lai-la'i in cmene
>>>
>>> Currently these syllables are not allowed in cmene unless
>>> preceded by a consonant or followed by a vowel or apostrophe.
>>> There is a proposal to drop the restriction altogether, and
>>> require cmene to always begin and end with a pause (as they are
>>> required in some contexts already).
>>
>> Anything that decreases the fluency of speech is a big no-no in my
>> book.
>
> Erm, you must be using a definition of "fluency" with which I am not
> previously familiar.

Yes, sorry. I actually meant something like "fluidity", or maybe
"continuity".

>> I agree that the no doi-la-lai-la'i rule is obnoxious,
>
> No no no.
>
> The obnoxiousness is not the point, the point is that *no-one* has
> *ever* consistently gotten it right. I used "belas lugosis" the
> other day, and I *never* *noticed*. I'm not aware of a single
> serious user of Lojban that has not messed this up at least once.

That is a good point, but not absolutely decisive. People screw up on all
kinds of things in Lojban that differs from natlangs.

>> but not as bad as it would be if we introduced a lot more pauses
>> (the vast majority of cmevla would be in a name sumti and/or in a
>> vocative anyway).
>
> I *utterly* disagree. I think this is one of the biggest warts on
> the language. It's worse than SA.

Are you arguing that we should change the language in order to increase
its *elegance*? I thought we had agreed that formal beauty should not be a
sufficient criterion to change things, at least something that would force
people to un-learn something. And if this change is enacted, it *will*
force people to change their habits of pronunciation.

>> And I think that Robin would have much more trouble with using Vy.
>> pro-sumti if he had to do so in speech. Besides, Vy. sumti are
>> different from cmene under this proposal, in not having a
>> mandatory pause *in the front*.
>
> Yes, that was my *point*. If mandatory pauses in the front are
> bothering your, use cmene less.

On the contrary, I would like to continue to use cmevla as much as I do
now. Your proposal would make this more difficult.

--
Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/
Twinkle, twinkle little star
I don't wonder what you are,
For by spectroscopic ken,
I know that you are hydrogen.
--Ian Bush