WikiDiscuss

On Friday 11 February 2005 15:49, wikidiscuss@lojban.org wrote:
> Re: Controversial points in the morphology
>
> There are basically 5 issues I can think of that require heavy commenting.
> If people remember other stuff that needs to be dealt with please bring it
> up.
>
> Issue1: Consonant clusters.
>
> The current PEG allows initial clusters of up to three consonants
> (spr, ckl, jgl, zdr and the like) and non-initial clusters of up
> to four consonants, which are formed by a consonant followed
> by an initial cluster. That's for fuhivla. In addition to that there
> is the crunchy cluster allowed in type-3 fuhivla only. In cmene
> there is no restriction beyond permissible pairs and no ntc, ndj,
> nts, ndz.

I don't think type-3 fu'ivla should have any different clusters than type-4.
That would mean that {turnstile} is valid but {turlstile} is not.

> Issue2: Vowel clusters.
>
> Currently, any number of non-y vowels are allowed in cmavo, fu'ivla and
> cmene. Syllable breaks after ai, au, ei, oi, ia, ie, ii, io, iu, ua, ue,
> ui, uo, uu or a single vowel. Special cmavo: Cy, y'y, y = yy = yyy = yyyy =
> ... In cmene, y is allowed freely.

valfendi allows no more than two vowels without an apostrophe. I'm not sure
why that is, but no experimental cmavo in the Book with more than two vowels
has no apostrophe.

> Issue3: Rafsi
>
> All fu'ivla can be used as final rafsi, and all have a non-final rafsi by
> adding 'y.

Any rafsi formation that adds an extra syllable is unnecessary. We have {zei}.

> fu'ivla that start with a vowel add ' in front for non-initial rafsi:
> example mily'enri from milti .enri
>
> Any fu'ivla that ends in a single vowel gets a short rafsi by dropping the
> final vowel and replacing with y if that doesn't create a conflict with
> normal lujvo.

The last criterion needs to be spelled out. The PEG has a criterion, and
valfendi has a criterion, and we need to prove that they define the same set.

> cmene can have initial rafsi by adding -iy-

Can't do that. Cmene don't need to have a consonant cluster, and they can
begin with non-initial consonant clusters, so a fu'ivla beginning with a
cmene like that would be unlexable.

> non-y cmavo can have non-final rafsi by adding 'y

We have {zei}.

> Issue4: CVC-y- and CVV-r/n- hyphens
>
> These hyphens are allowed always. Officially they are allowed only when
> required (i.e. between an impermissible pair or to correct a tosmabru
> failure or to prevent CVV from falling off). RATIONALE: If one gets used to
> a lujvo like tosymabru, it is nice to be able to produce further formations
> like {naltosymabru} without having to remember to remove the hyphen in this
> case. If one gets used to the lujvo {li'erla'i}, it is a pain to remember
> that {nalyli'erla'i} is not a lujvo and one should use {nalyli'ela'i}
> instead. Allowing the hyphen always makes things easier for the user.

I agree.

> Issue5: doi-la-lai-la'i in cmene
>
> Currently these syllables are not allowed in cmene unless preceded by a
> consonant or followed by a vowel or apostrophe. There is a proposal to drop
> the restriction altogether, and require cmene to always begin and end with
> a pause (as they are required in some contexts already).

I disagree, though I don't right now remember why.

phma
--
Sans lunettes, je ne distingue même pas les odeurs...
-Les Perles de la médecine