WikiDiscuss

Thank you Nora for the compendium of CLL on morphology.

I'm selecting here what CLL says about 'y', and how it compares
with the PEG morphology:

> p12: 'Stress falls on the next to the last syllable of all words, unless
> that vowel is "y", which is never stressed; in such words the third-to-last
> syllable is stressed. If a word only has one syllable, then that syllable
> is not stressed.'
> ----------

The PEG morphology treats "Y" in all respects the same as "y",
i.e. it assigns no significance to a possible stress on "y".

> p33: 'The six Lojban vowels are "a", "e", "i", "o", "u", and "y". The
> first five vowels appear freely in all kinds of Lojban words. The vowel
> "y" has a limited distribution: it appears only in Lojbanized names, in
> the Lojban names of the letters of the alphabet, as a glue vowel in
> compound words, and standing alone as a space-filler word...'

This is respected in the PEG morphology.

> p33: 'The Lojban diphthongs are shown in the table below...' note:
> descending 5 appear first, then ascending 10 regular, then %22iy%22 and %22uy%22
> appear last.
> ----------
> p34: '... the last two ("iy" and "uy") are used only in Lojbanized names.'
> ----------

In the PEG morphology, "iy" is also used as the hyphen for
cmene rafsi.

> p35: 'The Lojban vowel pairs in separate syllables are: ...'. note:
> combinations with 'y' are included.
> p35: 'Vowel pairs in separate syllables involving "y" appear only in
> Lojbanized names. They could appear in cmavo (structure words), but only
> ".y'y." is so used.'
> ----------

Those combinations with y are used by PEG in hyphens for extended
rafsi, they are not allowed in cmavo.

> p40: 'Most Lojban words are stressed on the next-to-the-last ...
> syllable. ... syllables whose vowel is "y" or which contain a syllabic
> consonant are never counted.'
> ----------

PEG follows that rule.

> p51: 'Standard cmavo occur in four forms defined by their word structure
> ...:
> V-form
> CV-form
> VV-form
> CVV-form
> In addition, there is the cmavo ".y." (remember that "y" is not a
> V), which must have pauses before and after it.' note: %22.y'y.%22 not
> mentioned here

The pause before {.y} is the standard pause before any word that
begins with a vowel, and it is enforced in PEG. The pause after
{.y} is not required by PEG.

> ----------
> P59: The "y"-hyphen is used after a CVC-form rafsi when joining it with
> the following rafsi could result in an impermissible consonant pair, or
> when the resulting lujvo could fall apart into two or more words (either
> cmavo or gismu lujvo not mentioned).

In PEG too the "y"-hyphen is required in those situations, but it is
always permitted after a CVC rafsi, even when not strictly necessary.

> ----------
....
> 3. Every word beginning with a vowel must be preceded by a pause.
....
> no mention of .y. and .y'y.; must they be followed by pause or not? And,
> are they %22vowels%22 for these purposes such that they are preceded by pause?
> ----------

PEG now forbids the sequences "ay", "ey and "oy" everywhere, and
"iy" and "uy" can only appear in cmene or cmene rafsi, so by force
{.y} and {.y'y} must begin with a pause. They are not required to
be followed by a pause. (A cmene after them must begin with a
pause, put that's just what happens with cmene after any word
other than doi/la/lai/la'i, not a special rule for .y or .y'y.)

(ya, ye, yi, yo, yu are also forbidden everywhere now.)

....
> 6. A cmavo of the form "Cy" must be followed by a pause unless another
> "Cy"-form cmavo follows.
> ----------

But CLL also says:

> p414: Note that the lerfu words ending in "y" were written ... with
> pauses after them. It is not strictly necessary to pause after such lerfu
> words, but failure to do so can in some cases lead to ambiguities. ... A
> safe guideline is to pause after any cmavo ending in "y" unless the next
> word is also a cmavo ending in "y". The safest and easiest guideline is to
> pause after all of them.

So th e pause rule is here treated as a guideline rather than a
strict prohibition. PEG follows this more lenient rule: it allows
not pausing after Cy when no ambiguity results.

In fact, no special rule of pausing for Cy is required. The only
related rule is that a CV cmavo does not fall off from a string
CVCy- followed by any number of rafsi.

> ========
> 19.14 Hesitation "y"
> ----------
> p484: ... requirement to pause before and after. ... the "y" sound can
> be dragged out for as long as necessary. Furthermore, the sound can be
> repeated, provided the required pauses are respected.
> ----------

PEG allows writing things like yyyyyyyyy for dragged out y's.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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