methods of resolving mismatches between place structures and number of overt sumti
> On Apr 6, 2005 1:41 PM, John E Clifford
> <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > Our native
> > speaker of Lojban will (I think) still leave
> > blanks in what he says for a variety of
> reasons
>
> Indeed.
>
> > — at least the one listed and perhaps
> others. I
> > think even assuming that he always knows that
> and
> > why he is leaving a gap is pressing ones luck
> a
> > bit
>
> I don't think a fluent speaker necessarily
> knows *why* he
> says what he says. He just knows *how* to say
> it.
>
> (I leave gaps in English wihtout thinking
> > about it, after all, and with no discernable
> > reason).
>
> Yes, but surely you can't omit any word at all.
> There are rules you follow, even if you don't
> know
> them explicitly. You can't omit "nothing" in
> "he ate nothing" and get anything like the
> original
> meaning, for example.
I can't omit "nothing" but the case Ihave in mind
are not omissions in that sense: I do not know
what goes there, I just don't care for the
present purpose. So I say nothing about it. With
predicates with clearly defined places, this
amounts to {zi'o}, if you will, in some occasions
and to {da} or {zo'e} even in others.
> > So, I think this divsion will continue
> > to apply even for totally competent users.
>
> I think some of the possible reasons you
> mention for omission
> (those that involve zi'o) won't apply to
> someone who
> has incorporated the full meaning of a brivla.
>
I guess we just disagree about that. I have no
trouble in someone finding a bottle and saying
{ti botpi} or even {ti botpi la kok lo blaci} and
meaning (correctly it turns out) that this is
just like a bottle but for its lack of a lid.