WikiDiscuss

On 5/15/05, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> > > Examples of se fi'e Usage
> > >
> > > mi pilno le tadji se fi'e lo nanba
> > > I followed the instructions to make bread.
> >
> > The English seems ambiguous between
> > {mi pilno le tadji lo nu zbasu lo nanba} and
> > {mi pilno le tadji be lo nu zbasu lo nanba}.
> >
> > I think {finti} would be used for bread only in very special
> > cases, and if you really finti bread you probably wouldn't be
> > following instructions.
>
> Point. Suggestions?

Let's start with a sentence using {finti} as the selbri, and with
all places filled:

la djan finti lo lisri lo nu le tixnu cu cmila kei lo se viska
''John invents a story so that his daughter laughs, made up
out of what they are seeing.''

Now, since the x3 of {finti} is taken by an event, it is easy
to construct examples for {fi'e}, {se fi'e} and {ve fi'e} out of that
sentence:

le tixnu cu cmila fi'e la djan
The daughter laughs with-invention-by John.

le tixnu cu cmila se fi'e lo lisri
The daughter laughs with-invented story.

le tixnu cu cmila ve fi'e lo se viska
The daughter laughs with-invention-from what they see.

I don't know what else but the goal of the invention could
be the main bridi augmented with a {fi'e}, {se fi'e} or {ve fi'e}
place.

{te fi'e} is more complicated because it doesn't leave
any event place open for the main bridi, so the transformation
has to be something more like {broda te fi'e ko'a} ->
{lo nu broda cu nu finti fi ko'a}, the brodaing has to be itself
an event of creation where ko'a is the goal, but at the same
time not use {finti} as the selbri. Perhaps something with
{zbasu}:

la djan zbasu lo lisri lo se viska te fi'e lo nu le tixnu cu cmila
''John makes a story out of what they see, with-goal-of-invention
that his daughter laughs.''

It is not clear why one would use {zbasu} there instead of {finti}
though.

> > > Examples of se be'i Usage
> > >
> > > mi pilno ti se be'i lo se mrilu
> > > I use this to send mail.
> >
> > That would be {mi pilno ti lo nu benji lo se mrilu}.
>
> Yes, it would. You have a better example?

Again, let's write a full bridi with {benji}:

la djan benji lo xatra le bruna la paris mi
John sends a letter to his brother from Paris via me.

The problem here is that none of the places is an event, so
using any of the places to expand another bridi is very
difficult. Let's say that the sending of the letter was
used by John to thank his brother for something, then:

la djan ckire le bruna se be'i lo xatra
John thanks his brother with-sent letter.

la djan ckire le bruna ve be'i la paris
John thanks his borther with-sent-from Paris.

la djan ckire le bruna xe be'i mi
John thanks his brother with-carrier me.

For {be'i} and {te be'i} we need to identify the sending with an
event in which no agent, the sender, or no receiver takes direct
part. Let's say that instead of a letter, John sends a box to his
brother.

ti tanxe be'i la djan
This is a box with-sender John.

ti tanxe te be'i le bruna
This is a box sent-to the brother.

mu'o mi'e xorxes