WikiDiscuss

WikiDiscuss


BPFK Section: Case sumtcita

posts: 2388

Aside from pointlessness, all of these assume
without any visible justification a certain
relationship both with the "corresponding" brivla
to the BAI and between the resulting sentence and
one in which that brivla plays a role as a
brivla. These connection are not supported by
the core group of BAI, so suing them to create
new ones is an innovation which seems bound to
lead to the kinbds of pointless muddles here
shown.


> On 5/15/05, Robin Lee Powell
> <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> > > > Examples of se fi'e Usage
> > > >
> > > > mi pilno le tadji se fi'e lo nanba
> > > > I followed the instructions to make
> bread.
> > >
> > > The English seems ambiguous between
> > > {mi pilno le tadji lo nu zbasu lo nanba}
> and
> > > {mi pilno le tadji be lo nu zbasu lo
> nanba}.
> > >
> > > I think {finti} would be used for bread
> only in very special
> > > cases, and if you really finti bread you
> probably wouldn't be
> > > following instructions.
> >
> > Point. Suggestions?
>
> Let's start with a sentence using {finti} as
> the selbri, and with
> all places filled:
>
> la djan finti lo lisri lo nu le tixnu cu
> cmila kei lo se viska
> ''John invents a story so that his daughter
> laughs, made up
> out of what they are seeing.''
>
> Now, since the x3 of {finti} is taken by an
> event, it is easy
> to construct examples for {fi'e}, {se fi'e} and
> {ve fi'e} out of that
> sentence:
>
> le tixnu cu cmila fi'e la djan
> ''The daughter laughs with-invention-by
> John.''
>
> le tixnu cu cmila se fi'e lo lisri
> ''The daughter laughs with-invented
> story.''
>
> le tixnu cu cmila ve fi'e lo se viska
> ''The daughter laughs with-invention-from
> what they see.''
>
> I don't know what else but the goal of the
> invention could
> be the main bridi augmented with a {fi'e}, {se
> fi'e} or {ve fi'e}
> place.
>
> {te fi'e} is more complicated because it
> doesn't leave
> any event place open for the main bridi, so the
> transformation
> has to be something more like {broda te fi'e
> ko'a} ->
> {lo nu broda cu nu finti fi ko'a}, the brodaing
> has to be itself
> an event of creation where ko'a is the goal,
> but at the same
> time not use {finti} as the selbri. Perhaps
> something with
> {zbasu}:
>
> la djan zbasu lo lisri lo se viska te fi'e
> lo nu le tixnu cu cmila
> ''John makes a story out of what they see,
> with-goal-of-invention
> that his daughter laughs.''
>
> It is not clear why one would use {zbasu} there
> instead of {finti}
> though.
>
> > > > Examples of se be'i Usage
> > > >
> > > > mi pilno ti se be'i lo se mrilu
> > > > I use this to send mail.
> > >
> > > That would be {mi pilno ti lo nu benji lo
> se mrilu}.
> >
> > Yes, it would. You have a better example?
>
> Again, let's write a full bridi with {benji}:
>
> la djan benji lo xatra le bruna la paris mi
> ''John sends a letter to his brother from
> Paris via me.''
>
> The problem here is that none of the places is
> an event, so
> using any of the places to expand another bridi
> is very
> difficult. Let's say that the sending of the
> letter was
> used by John to thank his brother for
> something, then:
>
> la djan ckire le bruna se be'i lo xatra
> John thanks his brother with-sent letter.
>
> la djan ckire le bruna ve be'i la paris
> ''John thanks his borther with-sent-from
> Paris.''
>
> la djan ckire le bruna xe be'i mi
> John thanks his brother with-carrier me.
>
> For {be'i} and {te be'i} we need to identify
> the sending with an
> event in which no agent, the sender, or no
> receiver takes direct
> part. Let's say that instead of a letter, John
> sends a box to his
> brother.
>
> ti tanxe be'i la djan
> This is a box with-sender John.
>
> ti tanxe te be'i le bruna
> This is a box sent-to the brother.
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
>
>
>