WikiDiscuss

On 5/17/05, John E Clifford <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> "Give me an example of a non-existent object or I
> won't be convinced" is not a very interesting
> comment.

It's not a comment, just a request. I have been using Lojban
for ten years and I don't recall any instance during this time
of any BAI acquiring an interesting new meaning, so I'd like
to know what kind of possible extensions you have in mind.

> I have cited cases from the past where
> the rules being in force would have prevented a
> useful usage; I extrapolate from that.

What rules do you think are in force? People who use {du'o}
for "according to" are convinced that that's what {djuno}
permits them to do, so they are using it for what they take
{fi'o djuno} to be. Either that, or they just looked up the
keyword in the ma'oste. Another example, {ti'u} is glossed
"at time ..." so people sometimes use it to tag any time
indicaton, as if it was {ca}, {ti'u le crisa} for example. But
{ti'u} is supposed to be {fi'o tcika}, for a clock time. The
English keyword is misleading. Is it desirable to let the
meaning of {ti'u} drift based on its English keyword?
Should we not insist that {ti'u} is {fi'o tcika}?

> Well, we have different tastes at this point; I
> prefer the possibility of creativity to the
> strict requirement that all be done by rules.

I'm all in favour of creativity. It usually requires more
creativity to do things by the rules than to come up with
ad hoc solutions to problems. Using BAIs for non-BAI functions,
(like the sometime proposed function for pa'aku) is not, in
my view, a desirable outcome. Shifting the meaning of some
BAI from {fi'o broda} to some other {fi'o brode} is perfectly
acceptable to me, preferrably if done consciously, so for example
that you use {du'o} knowing you mean {fi'o jinvi}, and not really
meaning {fi'o jinvi} but thinking you mean {fi'o djuno}.

> It
> does not seem to me appropriate for the grammar
> to take sides on this, hence my suggestion that
> the unused forms be declared undetermine but als
> show which way the predictions of their use lie.

It's hard to see how that differs from what is being done
now.

mu'o mi'e xorxes