WikiDiscuss

WikiDiscuss


BPFK Section: Epistemology sumtcita

posts: 953

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Robin Lee Powell wrote:

arj:
>>>> I may be wrong, but I don't think quantified claims are
>>>> constrained by the main selbri. If they were, it would be
>>>> impossible to predicate anything over everything (universal
>>>> claims).
>>>
rlpowell:
>>> You're saying, then, that:
>>>
>>> ro da limna
>>>
>>> is a true statement, because quantified claims are not
>>> constrained by the main selbri. Ummmm...
>>
>> On the contrary, I am saying that it is a *false* statement. You
>> are quantifying over all the entities in the universe,
>> unrestricted. Since there will always be non-swimming entities
>> (such as myself, or that book on my table), such a universal claim
>> will be false.
>
> Right.
>
>> Unless you want to invoke the concept of "universe of discourse",
>> but this is dubious, since AFAIK we don't have any explicit way of
>> picking out a universe of discourse.
>
> True.
>
>>> It is the conflict between the quantification and the claim that
>>> makes quantified claims true or untrue
>>
>> I don't understand this at all.
>
> The quantification specifies a number of things; the truth/false of
> the statement is determined by whether the claim applies to that
> number of things.
>
>>> (from a given semantic perspecitve, outside BPFK scope, blah blah
>>> blah).
>>
>> I do not agree that the way quantification works is outside the
>> BPFK scope.
>
> It's not, but the semantics of the resulting sentence (i.e. whether
> the sentence is true or false) is.
>
> OK, getting back to the problem.
>
> so'a da cusku fi lo ri cevni ku'u lo lijda
>
> The question is, to me, is there any difference between the above
> and:
>
> so'a da poi cusku cu cusku fi lo ri cevni ku'u lo lijda
>
> IMO, the first version implies the second one. But I'm not sure.
> Nor do I know how to decide.

It's unfortunate that we're having this discussion on a mostly unrelated
part of the example sentence, when we should be concentrating in getting
BAI done.

I suggest that we just agree for now that quantification is a matter of
dispute, and leave a note on this on whichever section contains ro, so'a,
and friends.

--
Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/
There is a great deal of drinking in Japan, unbridled by licensing
hours. It forms an important part of semi-official end of work or
business negotiations ..., but is also rampant without any such
excuse. — Ballhatchet, Kaiser: Teach Yourself Japanese