WikiDiscuss

WikiDiscuss


Wiki page BPFK Section: Causation sumtcita changed by rlpowell

posts: 14214

Taking this because bancus said I could.

On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 11:34:13AM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> > !! Examples of mu'i nai Usage
> >
> > mi gleki le nu tavla do mu'i nai le cmalu temci
> > I like talking to you, regardless of the short amount of time.
>
> Add {kei} before {mu'i}, presumably.

Done.

> > !! Examples of se mu'i nai Usage
> >
> > Artificial:
> >
> > di'i nai mi citka se mu'i nai mi co'u xagji
> > Sometimes, I eat but this does not result in my hunger ending.
>
> Something wrong in the translation here. {se mu'i} is "motivated
> by...",

Umm, no it's not.

> not "results in..."

It's "motive therefore", which is basically the same as "results
in".

In fact, the keyword for {se mu'i nai} is wrong prima facia.

Changed from "Not motivated by..." to "Not motive for...".

> > !! Examples of ki'u nai Usage
> >
> > ''.i mi na zukte fi loza'i se ckasu lo selgubni .e lo malsi .e
> > lo ternuzba kei .e lenu bai mupli le barda tcica kei ki'unai
> > loza'i mi cusku le sampu jetnu poi le saske cu ba je'urbai''
> >
> > I do not purpose being pilloried by the public, the pulpit, and
> > the press, and held up as a colossal liar when I am but telling
> > the simple truths which some day science will substantiate.
>
> If anything, this should be {ki'u}, not {ki'u nai}:
>
> "It is not the case that: (I purpose being pilloried ... because I
> am telling the simple truths)"

I ain't touching this one. bancus? (I think xorxes is right,
though).

> > !! Examples of se ki'u Usage
> >
> > .i mi ca gunka penmi seki'u le nu masno spuda (Slightly modified.)
> >
> > I am at a work meeting, which is the reason for my slow replies.
>
> "Thereby" could be added as a keyword here:
>
> "I am at a work meeting, thereby replying slowly."

Done.

> > !! Examples of se ki'u nai Usage
> >
> > ''.i se ki'u nai bo mi bandu le nobli ke lojbo bangu lo vlatai
> > zekri''
> >
> > Regardless of that motivation, I will defend the noble Lojban
> > language against word-shape crimes.
>
> That's {i se ki'u nai ku}. With {bo} it means something like:
>
> "That's regardless of my defense of the noble Lojban language
> against word-shape crimes."

Ah, so it is.

Hmmm. Is the "mi bandu" asentence asserted or negated or neither?

> > !! Examples of fau Usage
> >
> > Artificial:
> >
> > .i fau le nu mi sanli binxo kei mi cusku le du'u mo'u citka
> >
> > With the event of standing up, I express that the eating is over.
>
> That would work if {cusku} meant "x1 expresses x2", but {cusku}
> means "x1 expresses something with x2",

I still don't agree, nor do I find your statement to make much
sense.

> so what you want to say is:
>
> mi cusku le nu mi sanli binxo kei fau le nu mo'u citka
>
> "I express (something) with my standing up, the event that eating
> is over."

That seems totally non-sensical to me. You can't express an event.

> > !! Examples of se sau Usage
> >
> > .i pe'u ko sanli vi le serti se sau le nu mi do badgau
> > (Slightly modified.)
> >
> > Please stand at the stairs, which is required for my defending
> > you.
>
> {pe'u do'o} or just {e'o}.

.e'o

> {badgau} means "x1 makes x2 defend x3 from x4", not "x1 defends x2
> from x3".

fi added.

> > !! Examples of se ja'e nai Usage
> >
> > Artificial:
> >
> > mi cadzu se ja'e nai lo nu mi ponse lo karce
> >
> > I walk regardless of the fact that I own a car.
>
> It would make more sense with {na ponse}. Nobody would expect that
> owning a car results in walking, so what's the point of denying
> it?

Umm, what?

Oh, I see. My problem was with the English implications of
"regardless".

Does this work?:

mi cadzu se ja'e nai lo nu mi na ponse lo karce

I walk, but not because I don't own a car.

I walk regardless of whether or not I own a car.

> > !! Examples of va'o Usage
> >
> > ''.i va'o le nu rodo na kakne le nu damba bau lo lojban. kei
> > pe'u ko na damba''
> >
> > Under the conditions of y'all not being able to fight in lojban,
> > please don't fight.
>
> s/lo/la

> Better re-order:
>
> e'o ko na damba va'o lo nu ro do na kakne lo nu
> damba bau la lojban

Done.

-Robin