WikiDiscuss

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:14:25PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> First of all, I wonder whether the template would be less
> redundant but just as meaningful with s/the tagged sumti indicates
> that //. So a sample definition would be something like

Agreed. Fixed (even in other people's sections; y'all can revert if
you disagree).

> For an example for {zau}, you have
>
> mi cliva zau la patfu
>
> I left with dad's permission.
>
> Probably should be "with Dad's permission". (Dad here being used
> as a proper noun, therefore).

Done.

> {ca'i} has no keywords assigned (just copy "By authority of..."
> from the definition)

Done.

> Is there a reason {ta'i ma do cilre la lojban} is listed as an
> example of {ta'i} but not {ta'i ma}, while {ta'i ma do zbasu le
> danmo} is listed under both?

No.

> (And why, oh why, does {ta'i ma} need a separate definition
> anyway? Nevermind.)

Because it's exceedinly common and useful. It's the English word
"how".

> The proposed definition of {se ta'i} doesn't sit right with me. I
> would have expected that it's basically the reverse of {ta'i}.

Reverse? In what sense?

> mi cilre la lojban ta'i lo nu mi'o casnu
>
> mi'o casnu se ta'i lo nu mi cilre la lojban
>
> I learn lojban from our chats.

I can see that.

> If that's the case, I would have expect the defintion to be
>
> As a method for... Tags a sumti as fitting the second place of
> tadji. Augments the bridi in which it occurs, adding an extra,
> un-numbered place with the meaning of the second place of tadji and
> then fills it with the tagged sumti. In other words, the tagged
> sumti indicates that the event described by the bridi is a method
> associated with doing or performing the actions described or
> indicated by the referent of the tagged sumti. See also: tadji,
> ta'i, te ta'i, ta'i ma.

There was no point in repeating the whole thing, as all you did was
drop

using some method or technique unspecified (it can be specified
with ta'i, however).

I don't understand why. {se ta'i} should always be associated with
tadji, so it must have something to do with methods of some kind.

> That's also much more in keeping with the keyword

All you did was remove clarifying information; I don't see how that
makes it more in keeping with the keyword.

> Perhaps another keyword for {te ja'i} is "by rule governing"

Done.

> Possible artificial example sentence for {ku'u} (and {ja'i}, or
> actually {ja'i nai}). Feel free to modify or reject it
> completely, but maybe it can replace the "this kinda sucks".
>
> lo prenu na pinfu ja'i no da ku'u lo za'i zifre
>
> People are not held prisoner for no reason in a culture of freedom.
> (Probably not a really good translation.)

Slightly modified:

lo prenu na pinfu ja'i no da ku'u lo te flalu

"People are not held prisoner for no reason in a law-based culture."

Added to ja'i, but *not* ja'i nai. {ja'i no da} != {jai nai da}.

> "Proposed Definition of sera'a"
>
> I think you mean "se ra'a" (with a space).

Fixed.

> Under "Examples of se tai Usage", you have "See tai above; they
> are functionally identical." If so, then why are their
> definitions different? It would probably also be handy to note
> that in the defitions of each.

I have no idea; I don't understand tamsmi.

> mi galfi le ti bolci le ta bolci ve tai lo ka skari
>
> "I turn this ball into that ball with respect to colour."

This ball is red, that ball is blue; I make this ball blue.

> For {ma'i}, it might be nice to have a non-cultural example (since
> I think that's more in line with the definition).
>
> le mi ckafi cu dukse glare ma'i lo se pinxe
>
> My coffee is too hot, by the standard of drinks.
>
> My coffee is too hot to drink.

Thanks.

> Perhaps "under the control of" should be added as a keyword for {ji'o}.

Done.

-Robin

--
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Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!"
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