_______________________________________________________________________________


There are 3 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

      1. mela senva tcadu mumo'o
           From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
      2. Updated (FASTER!!!) Parser/Glosser version available
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
      3. LogFest 99
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 12:05:56 PDT
   From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: mela senva tcadu mumo'o

le sodna te gusni cu mlixu'e narju (The sodium lights
are pinkly golden.) .i na viska le jipno be le galtu bei
le manku (The top of the tower is lost in darkness.) .i
ko'o goi le klama ge'u co'a jingri (The ones who have
come here begin to form a ring) co smaji ji'o le ninmu
poi cipni firgai dasni goi ko'u (silently under the
direction of a woman in a bird mask,) noi ba'o dunda
le firgai pe tetai lo merko jectru ku'o ko'i (who has
already given him an American president mask.) .i fy.
rinka lenu viska nandu (The mask makes it hard for him
to see.) .i ca mligla mlecu (It's not as warm anymore)
ni'inai lenu le vaxygapci ge lunsa bu'u le fy. nersfe
(but his breath condenses inside the mask) gi se rinci
setai le ru'inai dirgo (& runs out in drops from time
to time.) ni'o ko'i judytirna le ca'o rilti selcru (He
listens to the chanting.) .i tirna lu ma'a ba'o binxo
le to'e pacna lenu mu'igi viska fi le terpa kanla gi
dunku li'u ("Disturbed by what we saw through frightened
eyes, we despaired.") .i drata bacru lu je'unai le
munje cu minji co dertu je cortu li'u (Another: "The
world is a machine of dirt & pain.") .i xance jgari
(They clasp hands.) .i ko'u bacru lu .uasai calku .i
go'i leka xamgu (She says: "It's a shell! A shell around
goodness.) .i nenri zdani ma'a .eicai li'u (Inside is
where we belong.") .i rilti bacru lu .e'unai ko krici
fi la narge li'u (All: "Don't believe in the Nut!") ni'o
ge zdile gi milxe tepygau vau ko'i (It amuses Cornelius,
& also scares him a little.) .i bazikiku ko'u .e ko'i ko'o
ba'o sepli (A little whilelater he & she have moved apart
from the others.) .i preti leka lenku kei ko'i ko'u (He
asks her if she's cold.)



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 02:02:33 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Updated (FASTER!!!) Parser/Glosser version available

Nora and I, finally having time to look at the parser glosser this week to
find out why it was running so slow, discovered some unnecessary and
grossly slow code in the innermost loop of the Glosser.  The program was
converting all strings to upper case before doing a string compare -
usually a sound safety check, but unnecessary for the strings we are
comparing in this program.  Removing this conversion has shortened time in
the glosser to less than 1/3 of the former eon that it was taking, and
Saki's The Open Window, an 8k file which is at about the upper limit for
token space for the Lojban parser, takes under a minute on a 486-100
Windows machine (it was taking almost 4 minutes before the change).
Other experiments to speed up the processing had only tiny effects, so we
don't think much further improvement can be made, but I'm sure people will
be glad for this one.

The file is at

http://www.lojban.org/files/glosser3.ZIP    (226K)

This address is NOT on the file archive roadmap.

See my message of 8 May on the archive for more details on the program.
This remains a Beta version - please make this clear if you link to it
and/or put a copy on your site.

As before, comments and bug reports are welcome.

lojbab
----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 02:17:44 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: LogFest 99

We are now only 2 weeks from LogFest 99, our annual Lojban gathering here
in Fairfax VA near Washington DC on July 16-18.  Several people have said
they are or are not coming, but I haven't heard from some people who said
they might come.  If you MIGHT come, or if you are definitely coming, we
would like to know as it affect logistics and menu planning.  We still have
crash space but sleeping bags would be helpful.  If you can come for only
one day, Saturday is usually best - Sunday is dominated by the annual
meeting of LLG, and Friday is just people arriving and socializing (usually
later in the evening).

At this point we have reasonable hopes for a record turnout.

There will be 4 kids here ages 8-13, so bringing (non-Lojbanic) kids along
is plausible if you let us know in advance - my daughter age 13 is old
enough to supervise kids and we will have non-participating adults also
watching the kids.

Nora has asked be to open the floor to suggestions for activities people
think might be interesting for Logfest attendees.  We have a fair list as
it is, but with the new growth in people able to actually use the language
we may be able to be more ambitious.  We also have a lot of new people who
may have new ideas.

Finally, I shortly will have a scanner hooked up here, which may allow us
to add some pictures and/or photos to our net content, as well as some of
Michael Helsem's older Lojban works that were handwritten or typed (subject
to his permission of course).  I already have a color printer connected.

lojbab
----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There are 2 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

      1. mela senva tcadu xamo'o
           From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
      2. lojbo mu'e salci
           From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 06:59:09 PDT
   From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: mela senva tcadu xamo'o

lu mi pu mulno finti le ritli .i mu'ibo ko'o djica li'u
se bacru ko'u ("I made it all up. It's what they
expected," she says.) .i ko'i .e ko'u cadzu va'o le cizra
nornungusni ce'e ni'a le tricu poi slilu co milxe (They're
walking in the strange half-light, under trees that
mildly wave.) .i spuda fi lu .ue .i xu girzu noda li'u
("You mean there isn't any group?") .i ko'u lu li'a
zo'oru'e li'u bacru ("Naturally.") .i ko'i cisma bacru
lu .i'o .e'anairu'e banzu fale se cmila li'u ("I have to
admit it was a good joke," says Cornelius.) .i lu loi se
jmaji remna zo'onai cu nitcu lo jitro sidbo fo lenu levo'a
klani cu zenba li'u se bacru ko'u ("A gathering needs
focus as its size increases," she says.) .i ko'i lu xu
gu nitcu gi jetnu li'u bacru ("Whether or not it's a true
idea?") .i catlu simxu (They look at each other.) .i
crino fa le nicte (Green is the night.)



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 07:10:50 PDT
   From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: lojbo mu'e salci

da du lepu se ciskycusku pefi'i mi zo'u sai mi curmi le
ba nu skami catlu da (Sure, scan them...)



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There is 1 message in this issue.

 Topics in today's digest:

      1. mela senva tcadu zemo'o
           From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 11:40:40 PDT
   From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: mela senva tcadu zemo'o

balvi .i ko'i .e ko'u .e so'ole klama mo'u ginka fagri
zbasu (Later on, they've built a fire.) .i surla lenu
casnu (Talking idly,) je vanju bo simxu (sharing wine.)
.i co'a casnu le kampu te bilma poi ru'inai senva co
tepygau (They bring up the widespread nightmare plague,)
zi'e poi la sneti'o ke'acpi cu smene ke'a roda (which
everyone calls "Birds of Shade".) .i ko'i jinvi fi ra
ledu'u ra jalge le dukse be le za'i cedra jinru (Cornelius
thinks they're caused by too much identifying with the
times.) .i ku'i ko'u jinvi ledu'u jalge lo tavla xanto
goi fo'a (The Bird Woman thinks it's all due to intelligent
elephants) .i fo'a ti klama le tarci peme'e la betyldjuz.
(from Betelgeuse.) i pu'o donri (It's not yet dawn.) .i
baziku lei trene mo'ipa'o krefu (Soon the trains will be r
unning again.) .i ko'u bacru lu pukiku mi fo'e goi le
fekni'u ge'u prami ("Once I loved a madwoman," she says.)
.i carmi jenai simxu ("Much but not mutually.) .i fo'e
djica lenu klama fa vo'a le stici (She wanted to move out
west.) .i mi fo'e sidju (I helped her.) .i ca'o verba purjbe
(She was pregnant) .i jibri claxu (& unemployed.) .i mi
ba'o tisna le karce le se ponse (I filled the car with her
stuff) gi'e to'e rinsa (& said goodbye) .i na krefu balvi
(never to hear from her again) .i ku'i notci paroipo'oku
(except once) fo'e fo le simpe'o noi ciksi ledu'u (from a
mutual friend, who said) fo'e zdacau xabju lo klaji be la
freskon. (she was living on the street in San Francisco.)
.i .uinaicai .u'ucai .uanaisai mi na zukte (I didn't do
anything, alas.) .i ju'onai facki (There was no way to
find her.) .i to'u ki mi curmi le betri (So I let it
happen,) poi mi ze'u dunku ke'a (what anguished me so long.)
.ije le fanmo be le lisri cu claxu (The story lacks an
ending.) mu'o li'u (The end.")



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There are 2 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

      1. mela senva tcadu bimo'o
           From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
      2. mela senva tcadu somo'o
           From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 08:46:05 PDT
   From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: mela senva tcadu bimo'o



le le tcadu ku te jganu ca'o binxo co zmadu fi le ka manku joi
kilmlu (The spires of the City are becoming sharper & darker,)
kei vega'a lenu le tsani cu skari fo noda poi na'e vizyzva
(against the sky of a color seen nowhere else.) .i kolme le fagri
(The fire has dwindled to coals.) .i le botpi le vinju cu kunti (The
wine is all gone.) .i xaksu le lisri (They've run out of stories.)
ni'o ko'i jimpe ledu'u ba lenu vo'a ba'o ge cliva la sancypurdi
gi xruti fi levo'a zdani kei (Cornelius understands that after he
has left the Sound Garden & returned home,) vo'a fu'epo'o
morji ledu'u pu jundi fo'i goi le sizyselfre kei fu'o (he only will
remember that his mind was filled with the thought of the
unborn child,) tetai le selsanga pesepi'o lo xagri .a lo tabra
zi'u poi le smuni be zo'e pujeca smuni ke'a (like a song
whether reed or brass meaning what it meant then & now;)
kei .e di'e .itu'edu'u ro klama ba cliva (everyone will leave;)
.ijedu'u ba le mu'e rixini'ure xrula jmaji sepi'o le skaci kei ko'u
ba ge di'i juxre cadzu le carmi salpo gi to'e jgari piso'olei xrula
(the Bird Woman after gathering flowers in her skirt will
stumble repeatedly on the steep hillside & let some of them
fall) .ijedu'u juxre cadzu tu'i da zu'o ba zvati fa lo blabi klani
poi carmi simlu va'o le milxe cerni ku'o da tu'u (& there will
be white splotches shining in the pale dawn at each place
she tripped.)



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:15:30 PDT
   From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: mela senva tcadu somo'o

ti'e lai ti'ocpi pu se finti fa'i di'e (They say the
Birds of Shade were created like this:) .itu'e puzuki
klama fa fo'i goi le krati be le jecta turni bei fo'o
goi le xabju be la senva tcadu (Long ago, the King sent
his ambassador to the people of the City.) .i penmi co
nenri le banli kumfa be le barda rokyzda be'o noi sorska
canko ke'a (They met in a great chamber of the Castle,
with stained glass windows.) .i fengu darlu (Angry
arguing.) .i renro fo'i pale canko (The Ambassador was
thrown through one of the windows.) .i le jamna cu jalge
la'edi'u (And war resulted.) .i le tcadu cu to'e zifre
ji'e le nanca li cinono (The City lost its freedom for
300 years.) .ije lei valsi co darlu be fa fo'i ca'o stali
fo'o (And the arguing words of the Ambassador remained
with the people of the City) tai lei se senva poi tepygau
(in the form of nightmares;) .i de vi sipna zo'u de dunku
senva la ti'ocpi (whoever passes here a night will be
plagued by them.) .i to'u ri du pale se misno tu'u (It's
one of the things this place is famous for.)



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There is 1 message in this issue.

 Topics in today's digest:

      1. mela senva tcadu panomo'o
           From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:37:43 PDT
   From: michael helsem <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: mela senva tcadu panomo'o



ko'u noi cmene ru'inai ke'a fa la katerjinas.vltavas. ku'o (The
Bird Woman, whose real name is Kater^ina Vltava,) cadzu
mo'izo'a lebi'u blabi ckafybarja peme'e la betelgoisyn. (walks
past a coffeehouse called "Betelgeuse".) .i co'u firgai dasni
(She no longer wears the mask.) .i ze'i catlu je pensi ri (For a
moment she considers the coffeehouse.) .i ca'enai puzu se
girzu le larvla me'e lai xanto (Long ago it was the home of a
literary group called "The Elephants".) .i fu'eka'u morji fu'o
krinu (Because they "remembered".) .i la kafkas. di'inai cmima
(Kafka was sometimes a member.) .ije na'o vrucau ciskycusku
vi le sevzi kojna (He'd quietly write in a corner off by himself)
.i na jarco (& wouldn't show it to anyone.) .i ko'u kucli jinvi ledu'u
ra ca'o finti le malcinki lisri poi misro (She speculates that he
was working on his famous bug story.) .i mo'u bancu (She goes
on by.) .i mo'ifa'a klama le fukpi be le .angeli. noi relselstedu
(Approaching the statue of a two-headed angel,) .i bacru lu
zgana zo'e ro'e li'u (she says, "The subject is under observation,")
la lojban. poi se cusku serai leka drani (in perfect Lojban.)



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There is 1 message in this issue.

 Topics in today's digest:

      1. LogFest in 1 week
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:06:06 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: LogFest in 1 week

Well, with one week to go, I am still waiting to hear from some of you who
said you might be coming to LogFest, which is next weekend (July 16-18).
My current estimate is for around 25 attendees so far, which will be a
record and more than double last year's attendance.  About 1/3 of those
attending will be conversant in the language, about 1/3 knowledgable about
the language but not yet able to hold a conversation, and 1/3 newcomers who
probably do not know the language (but since I haven't met some of you, I
might be surprised).

As a result of our expected size, we will likely have multiple activities
going on at differing levels of skill.  Logfest is, however, quite
informal, and the "scheduling" such as it is, is that we do whatever the
people who are there want to do, counting on those more experienced in the
language to help lead any teaching or conversation sessions.

Friday evening is arrival time, primarily social.  Saturday is when most
teaching and conversation and other language activities take place.  Sunday
is dominated by the annual meeting of the Logical Language Group, which
starts at 1030AM and goes till it gets done, usually 3-5 hours later, by
which time a few people are starting to leave, especially if the have a
ways to travel.  Some people stay Sunday evening and even into Monday.

If you are planning on coming, we really would like to know so we can
ensure crash space (if you are sleeping here), and sufficient food.

lojbab
----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There are 4 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

      1. la mipri
           From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
      2. New to list. Word derivation
           From: "Michael D. Edwards" <avmike@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
      3. la genjo,koan.
           From: Spigot <spigot@xxxxxx.xxx>
      4. Re: New to list. Word derivation
           From: Robin Turner <robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:39:21 PDT
   From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: la mipri

lu la mipri li'u tcita di'e .itu'e

balvi lo nunydji
   falo nunselmansa
.i sisku jebabo
   facki le zdani .i
pranygau falo cimni

voi nenri lo zasni
   ku'o rolemi'o
se cirko .i mu'igi
   jimpe le mujnunzukte
gi mi le ledo

flira ku kruvi ca tadni
   .i krefu
lenu djica .i fu'epe'a
   le toldi brife
co'a pencu fu'o le skapi

po'u mi'a zi'e noi
dukse leka glare

tu'u ("Secret-Keeper": 'Saisfaction follows desire.
Searching, then the homecoming. The Infinite within
the Temporary perfects all our losses. In order to
understand the universe-deed, i study your face's curve.
Desire is renewed: "wind of the butterfly", on our
overheated skin.')



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:33:38 -0400
   From: "Michael D. Edwards" <avmike@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: New to list. Word derivation

Hello,
I am new to the Lojban list. I am curious of getting a detailed =
explanation of how it was that Lojban formed its words from source =
languages? Does anyone know? (please no generalities..like =
"algorithems"..etc...but in detail)

Thanks so much
Michael Edwards
icq # 22120858
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the
 power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;
 to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16)



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 01:37:04 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Spigot <spigot@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: la genjo,koan.



lu la genjo,koan. li'u cu tcita di'e ne fi'e la dogen .i tu'e

ro fasnu cu jicmu fasnu
    .icabo jitfa jimpe gi'e jetnu jimpe gi'e bancu gunka gi'e co'a jmive
    gi'e co'a morsi gi'e jicmu prenu gi'e ckini prenu

.i ro fasnu cu to'e se sevzi
    .icabo na jitfa jimpe gi'e na jetnu jimpe gi'e na jicmu prenu
    gi'e na ckini prenu gi'e na co'a jmive gi'e na co'a morsi

.i le jicmu tadji cu bancu le ka zmadu .e la ka mleca
    .iseja'ebo co'a jmive gi'e co'a morsi gi'e jitfa jimpe
    gi'e jetnu jimpe gi'e ckini prenu gi'e jicmu prenu

ni'o

la'edi'u jetnu .iku'i sa'u le xrula co'a morsi ca le nu djica
.ije le zunti spati co'a to'e canci ca le nu fapro

ni'o

.i le nu do crakla bevri le sevzi tezu'e cipra le ka zasti ro fasnu kei
    ca'a jitfa jimpe
.i le nu ro fasnu cu crakla seja'e jarco le ka sevzi kei
    ca'a jetnu jimpe

ni'o

.i ro da poi da jetnu jimpe le ka jitfa jimpe cu jicmu prenu
.i ro da poi da jitfa jimpe le ka jetnu jimpe cu ckini prenu

ni'o

ji'a lo prenu cu jetnu jimpe le ka jetnu jimpe
.ije lo prenu cu jitfa jimpe le ka jitfa jimpe

ni'o

ganai da noi jicmu prenu cu ca'a du le ka jicmu prenu
    gi da na'e nitcu le sanji le ka jicmu prenu
.iku'i da ca'a jicmu prenu
    gi'e ca'o ca'a du le ka jicmu prenu

ni'o

da poi xadni je menli gunma te viska le tarmi goi ke'a ku'o .e
de poi xadni je menli gunma te tinzga le sance goi ke'a ku'o
se sanji .o'ecai
.iku'i la'edi'u na simsa le minra

ni'o

.i le nu da tadni le jicmu tadji cu mintu le nu da tadni le da sevzi
.i le nu da tadni le da sevzi cu mintu le nu da stimo'i le da sevzi
.i le nu da stimo'i le da sevzi cu mintu le nu da selgre ro fasnu
.i le nu da selgre ro fasnu cu se jalge
    le nu farlu se canci le xadni je menli
    po da .e ro drata
.i le terli'a be fi le pagre cu canci
.ije le nu tolterli'a pagre cu roltei ranji





_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:14:46 +0300
   From: Robin Turner <robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx
Subject: Re: New to list. Word derivation

"Michael D. Edwards" wrote:

> Hello,
> I am new to the Lojban list. I am curious of getting a detailed
> =
> explanation of how it was that Lojban formed its words from
> source =
> languages? Does anyone know? (please no generalities..like =
> "algorithems"..etc...but in detail)

Have a look at Chapter 4 of the reference grammar, at
http://www.lojban.org/files/reference-grammar/chap4.html

For more detail, see the files at
http://www.lojban.org/files/roadmap.html#etymology

co'o mi'e robin.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There is 1 message in this issue.

 Topics in today's digest:

      1. la jboste
           From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 11:38:13 PDT
   From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: la jboste

.ui di'a jbota'a



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There are 3 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

      1. Beginners course update
           From: Robin Turner <robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx
      2. LogFest '99
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
      3. How to access IRC
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:13:48 +0300
   From: Robin Turner <robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xx>
Subject: Beginners course update

Thanks to all who offered suggestions and corrections.  I've
revised the first three lessons taking into account what people
have said.  If you suggested something and I haven't included it'
it's either because

(a) I don't agree
(b) I've lost your e-mail, or
(c) I'm still thinking about it (this applies to pc's comments in
particular!).

There is now a contents page at
http://www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin/lojbancourse.html but it only
links to the revised lessons, since I wouldn't want to inflict my
dubious uncorrected Lojban on unsuspecting newbies.  You can
still look at the draft lessons by typing in the URL e.g.
http://www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin/lesson6.html .
I haven't had time to write anything new, except for an
introduction which explains basic terms and gives a few links, or
even repair the broken Lesson 5 yet, due to end of term stress
and setting up my Linux box (that reminds me - .e'o can whoever
sent me a file called lojbandict.tar try sending it again - now
I've got Linux I can use it, but it seems to be broken and won't
untar).

co'o mi'e robin.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:52:33 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: LogFest '99

The first guest having arrived, I hereby declare LogFest 99 to have started.

I am hoping for maybe 30 attendees, including the long absent Nick Nicholas.'

We will try to continue our annual tradition of IRC on EFNET channel
#Lojban.  The first session will be approximately 0930 EDT (GMT 1330)
Saturday morning, but allow for at least 15 minutes of slop at this end
since Nick may be arriving right about then.  I will post an email message
just before I get on.

lojbab
----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 00:38:40 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: How to access IRC

Someone asked how to access IRC using EFNET, chanel #lojban tomorrow morning.

You will need a special program called a "client" to access IRC. These can
be found at the following URLs:

Windows:  http://www.mirc.co.uk/get.html
Macintosh :  http://www.ircle.com
Any system:  http://www.wildstar.net/irc/clients/

These pages provide brief introductions to IRC:

http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/new2irc.html
http://www.connected-media.com/IRC/tutorials.htm


We will be meeting specifically on the IRC EFNet. Some servers you might
try are:
irc.prison.net, irc.frontiernet.net, irc.lagged.org

There are other possible servers to use, but some IRC servers connect to
alternate networks, and you will not be able to find us there.

Once you manage to connect to the IRC network, join the channel named
"#lojban" !

co'o re'icai

----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There are 6 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

      1. lOGfEST/irc UPDATE
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
      2. IRC #lojban
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
      3. lisri xidau
           From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxx>
      4. logfest IRC
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
      5. irc
           From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxx>
      6. .i IRC: xu mi tcika naldrani?
           From: Goran Topic <amadan@xxx.xxx>


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:48:45 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: lOGfEST/irc UPDATE

Now 0945 local and I am about to get on IRC.  I may not be constantly
attentive if others are not on, however, since we have guests arriving
intermittently.

lojbab
----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:17:20 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: IRC #lojban

Well, I am not seeing anyone on IRC.  Nick Nicholas and 3 other new people
just arrived. I will stay logged on the channel until 1030 local.

Since this may be too early or too short notice, we will try again
1400-1500 local (1800-1900 GMT).  That is EFNET channel #lojban.
----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 07:41:29 PDT
   From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: lisri xidau


la kornelius. sirji zutse suksa (Cornelius sits bolt upright.)
.i ze'i se cfipu (Bewildered.) .i vacri co danmo je pelmanku
(Dim yellow & smoky air.) .i di'a remvru (The hubbub has
resumed.) .i fo'a tavla pensi di'e .i tu'e .i'u cikna je'i sipna
fa le mibypre (He thinks: "Do I wake or sleep?) .i ti ja'a
judri my. ba'e ma (This is where I am, but what's that?)
.i xu datni munje (The Internet?) .i xu datytsani (Dreamtime?)
.i li'a curmi fa le cfipyboi lebi'u za'i misro snigreku (The world
allows a certain cartouche.) .ibabo nago'i (Then it doesn't.)
.i fu'eda'i my. toldi joi senva lenu vo'a na no'a (I could be
a butterfly dreaming I'm not.) .i my. rapkru je jarki klaji le
tcadu (Or the winding, narrow streets of a city.) fu'o .i le
tcecte vanbi be my. la'edi'u stidi (The nightful environment
says so.) .i ju'o mudri bitmu (These walls are wood!) .i ju'o
bogrokci jubme (This table is marble!) .ije ju'osai bongu
joi rectu tu'u (And I am flesh & bone!") ni'o fo'a co'a sanji
le junla poi lamji (He notices a nearby clock.) .i bacru lu
a'i le ve ciksi co mela kobn,avn. kuku (Says, "By the
Copenhagen interpretation,) le te lisri befa dei cu galfi fo
lo zgana (the Narrator by observing alters) fe le cfika
fatci pe le ckafybarja (the fictive reality of this coffeehouse;)
.iseni'inaibo mi satci lerci le ckule ku'i li'u (notwithstanding
which. however, I am definitely late for class.")



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 13:10:06 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: logfest IRC

Well we finally finshed a LOOONG session of IRC mostly dominated by Jorge,
Goran, and a host of kibitzers comprising the LogFest participant.

We will try again in 4 hours on IRC, at 1700 EDT which is either 2100 or
2200 GMT (wer had some uncertainty, but in any case four hours afyter this
message is posted %^)

lojbab
----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
   Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:14:35 PDT
   From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: irc

.o'onai .uuzo'o cnino nu bartu



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
   Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 23:34:46 +0200
   From: Goran Topic <amadan@xxx.xxxx
Subject: .i IRC: xu mi tcika naldrani?

.i mi zvati .i no la jbofest. prenu
.e pa co'a cilre .e pa xebro prenu cu go'i

co'o mi'e. goran.


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There is 1 message in this issue.

 Topics in today's digest:

      1. LogFest annual meeting
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:09:18 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: LogFest annual meeting

We have ended the annual meeting here at LogFest.  Not much new, except
that we have added 4 voting members.  I also called the meeting to order in
Lojban, in hopes of starting a trend %^)

Dave Twery was appointed to head a committee to look into setting up an
official home page distinct from Veijo's which is seen by many as a de
facto official site.  He will be seeking inputs and volunteers from the
community, as well as specific inputs from Veijo and others who have been
putting up web pages unofficially on our behalf.  I will let Dave post
further.

Nick Nicholas will be working on some formalisms and vocabulary to be used
if we decide to conduct more of our official meetings in Lojban.

While it was not part of the annual meeting I want to note that we managed
3 IRC sessions of multihour length, entirely in Lojban, and involving
people who a year ago were not Lojban speakers.  .o'acai

I have logs of at least two of the sessions and will post them, but not today.

I will be contacting those of you who I know to be linguistics people
working in semantics (tell me if you are not sure I know) about an idea we
have that might gain stature for Lojban in linguistics research.  I'll wait
till someone competent but not present at our heady middle of the night
discussions before I publically put my foot in my mouth on this list.  But
it's a doozy %^)

lojbab
----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There are 2 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

      1. Updated old Lojban drama la sinderelwyd (long)
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
      2. Updated version of parser/glosser
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:18:17 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Updated old Lojban drama la sinderelwyd (long)

Way back in 1989, the first Lojban class here in Virginia put on a play at
LogFest that Nora had put together in a few hours.  With little time to
rehearse, and some truly incompetent stage management on my part, the
hilarious production that resulted is shown to mirthful LogFest
participants every year.

This year, however, we had Nick Nicholas present.  So after an all night
effot by Nick and Nora, I am able to present you with an updated version of
"la sinderelwyd." which is (we hope) correct and up to date in grammar and
vocabulary.  In doing so, it takes its place as the longest piece of Lojban
text ever written and verified grammatical by parsing, at around 11K.

Comments are welcome.  Enjoy.  It will likely be up on the Lojban Web site
within a short while, with a bit more formatting using html.

More neat stuff out of LogFest will be coming.

la sindereluyd.
po'u la'e tu'o di'e draci fi la noras. lecevalier.
fu
la sindereluyd. ce
la paf. mamtyspen. ce
la pavber. ce
la relber. ce
la nolraitix. ce
lo nuzba krixa kuce
lo te lisri


.i pa mo'o
vi le zdani be la sindereluyd.
.i to'i la paf. toi:    ju'i doi sindereluyd. ko cazi brulu'i le loldi
.i to'i la sindereluyd. toi:    vi'o mamtyspen.
.i to'i pavber toi:     doi paf. la relber. pu po'irgau lemi selkei
.i to'i relber toi:     mi pu na po'irgau ri  .i la pavber. pu kalsygau
lemi melbi kerfa
.i to'i pavber toi:     .o'onai naku mi go'i
.i sei la pavber la relber darxi se'u
to'i relber toi:        .oiro'o la pavber. pu darxi mi doi paf.
.i sei la relber la pavber tikpa se'u
.i to'i pavber toi:     .oiro'o la relber. pu tikpa mi doi paf.
.i to'i paf. toi:       ju'i doi sindereluyd. .o'onai  .i .ianai do ba'o xu
brulu'i le loldi
.i ko jbikla
.i ko komnicygau le kerfa be la relber.
.ibabo ko cikre le selkei po la pavber.
.ibabo ko ba'o cai brulu'i le loldi
.i to'i sindereluyd. toi:       vi'o mamtyspen.
.i sei se'irta'a se'u .uu lomi ni se bilga cu zenba


.i papimu mo'o
sei ca'o le nu le te lisri cu cusku da kei ko la'e da tigni se'u
.i to'i te lisri toi:   ko'a goi la sindereluyd. komnicygau le kerfa be la
relber.
.ibabo ko'a cikre le selkei po la pavber.
.ibabo ko'a di'a brulu'i le loldi


.i re mo'o
.i sei lidnyzgi
.i sei le nu darxi le vorme cu se sance
.i sei la Paf. le vorme cu kalrygau
.i sei le nuzba krixa cu nerkla
.i to'i nuzba krixa toi:        coi doi se zdani
        .i ca'i le banli nolrai po'u la noltaj. mi cpedu lenu ro nanmu pe
vi le gugde ba
klama le la noltaj. nunsladansu
.i la nolraitix. poi tixnu be la noltaj. cu cuxna lera bavyspe leva zvati
.i ti pikta pi'o ro do
.i sei le nuzba krixa le pikta la paf. cu dunda
.i sei cliva
.i to'i pavber toi:     .ui mi ba zvati le banli nunsladansu
.i to'i relber toi:     .ui mi ba zvati le nunsalci
        .i sei la relber. leri melbi .ianaise'i kerfa cu jgira satre se'u
        .i mi ba mlerai leva zvati
.i to'i pavber toi:     .o'onai naku do go'i  .i mi ja'a go'i
.i to'i relber toi:     .o'onai naku do go'i  .i mi ja'a go'i
.i sei la pavber. la relber. darxi
.i to'i relber toi:     .oiro'o la pavber. pu darxi mi doi paf.
.i sei la relber. la pavber. tikpa
.i to'i pavber toi:     .oiro'o la relber. pu tikpa mi doi paf.
.i to'i paf. toi:       .e'o ko smaji doi zanbe'a be mi
.i le remei po'u do ba mlerai
.i .iacai le nolraiti'u ba cuxna pa do
.i to'i sindereluyd. toi:       .ue mi ne pa'a do pu te cpedu
.i mi ba klama le nunsalci
.i to'i paf. toi:       .o'onai na go'i  .i do .ei ba stali ti gi'e gunka
.i mi mipypu'i ledo pikta
.i ko di'a brulu'i
sei la paf. pa pikta lo tergusni cu mipypu'i se'u


.i repimu mo'o
.i to'i te lisri toi:   ni'o ca le nunsalci djedi le lanzu cu redgau pida'ari


.i ci mo'o
.i to'i pavber toi:     la relber. pu malcpa lemi degja'i
.i to'i relber toi:     mi na go'i  .i la pavber. pu malcpa lemi kerfa dasri
.i to'i pavber toi:     naku mi go'i
.i sei la pavber. la relber. darxi
.i to'i relber toi:     .oiro'o la pavber. pu darxi mi doi paf.
.i sei la relber. la pavber. tikpa
.i to'i pavber toi:     .oiro'o la relber. pu tikpa mi doi paf.
.i to'i paf. toi:       ju'i doi sindereluyd. ko cpacu le drata degja'i .e
le drata ke kerfa dasri
.i to'i sindereluyd. toi:       vi'o mamtyspen.
.i sei la sindereluyd. le degja'i .e le dasri cu cpacu
.i sei le drata cu mo'u dasni
.i to'i pavber toi:     mi bredi le nunsalci

.i to'i relber toi:     ba'e mi bredi lenu se cuxna la nolraitix.
.i to'i pavber toi:     naku do ba se cuxna la nolraitix.  .i mi ba ja'a go'i
.i to'i relber toi:     naku do go'i  .i mi ja'a go'i
.i sei ca'o lenu le cimei cu cliva le zdani kei la pavber. la relber. darxi
.i to'i relber toi:     .oiro'o la pavber. pu darxi mi doi paf.
.i sei la relber. la pavber. tikpa
.i to'i pavber toi:     .oiro'o la relber. pu tikpa mi doi paf.


.i cipimu mo'o
.i to'i te lisri toi:   ni'o la sindereluyd. cu na selkansa
.i sei la ridrirni cu nerkla je mipri se'u
        .i .ue .ianairu'e go'i


.i vo mo'o
.i to'i sindereluyd. toi:       mi na selkansa  .i naku .uu mi klama le
nunsalci
.i mi bilga lenu gunka
.i to'i ridrirni toi:   coi. .elwyd.  .i mi ridrirni do
.i to'i sindereluyd. toi:       .ue
.i to'i ridrirni toi:   .ai do ba klama le nunsalci  .i mi sidju do
.i ko zgana
.i sei leinu la ridrirni cu makfa xancymuvdu kei le pikta mipystu no'u le ka'e
tergusni ca'a tergusnyri'a
.i sei la ridrirni le pikta cu cpacu
.i sei ry. boi py. la sindereluyd. cu dunda
        .i do ca ponse le pikta
.i sei krefu nu makfa xancymuvdu se'u
        .ije le selgunka ca mulno
.i to'i sindereluyd. toi:       .ui  .i mi ca kakne lenu klama le nunsalci
.i  .y  naku .uu mi ponse lo mapti taxfu
.i to'i ridrini toi:    ko denpa
.i sei krefu nu makfa xancymuvdu
.i sei la ridrirni le dacru cu kalrygau
.i sei le dacru lo melbi taxfu cu vasru
.i mu'i lenu sy. zgana kei ry. le taxfu cu jgari jarco
        .i ko zgana do le minra
.i to'i sindereluyd. toi:       .ue le taxfu cu mutce melbi
.i to'i ridrirni toi:   do ne pa'a cu mutce melbi  .i .o'i ko se kajde
.i do bilga lenu cliva le nunsalci pu la parecac.
.i ca la parecac. ro ledo melbi taxfu ba binxo ledo mabla ke slabu taxfu
.i to'i sindereluyd. toi:       mi ba morji doi ridrirni  .i mi mutce ckire do
.i to'i ridrirni toi:   .e'o ko klama gi'e lifri le pluka
.i to'i sindereluyd. toi:       .aicai


.i vopimu mo'o
.i to'i te lisri toi:   ni'o mi'o bazi zgana le nunsalci vi le nolraizda po
la noltaj.


.i mu mo'o
vi le nolraizda
.i to'i nolraitix. toi: mi xanka denpa tu'a lemi ba speni
.i sei la paf. .e le re bersa cu nerkla
.i to'i nuzba krixa toi:        co'a zvati fa la paf. mamtyspen. noi
selkansa la pavber. .e la relber.
.i to'i nolraitix. toi: sei ny. le bersa cu degji farja'o se'u
        .ue ta xajmi dasni
.i to'i pavber toi:     sei mu'i lenu ny. se xlura kei py. le birka sluji
cu pulgau se'u
        coi nolraiti'u  .i mi tsarai
.i to'i relber toi:     sei ry. le kerfa cu jgira satre se'u
        coi nolraiti'u  .i mi mlerai
.i to'i pavber toi:     .o'onai naku do go'i  .i mi ja'a go'i
.i to'i relber toi:     .o'onai naku do go'i  .i mi ja'a go'i
.i sei la pavber. la relber. darxi
.i to'i relber toi:     .oiro'o la pavber. pu darxi mi doi paf.
.i sei la relber. la pavber. tikpa
.i to'i pavber toi:     .oiro'o la relber. pu tikpa mi doi paf.
.i to'i nolraitix. toi: coi vitke
.i sei  se'irta'a se'u
        .a'unai ti mabla se'icni
.i to'i pavber toi:     sei py. boi ny. suksa jgari se'u
        mi dansu co kansa do
.i to'i nolraitix toi:  sei se'irta'a se'u
        .oiro'o ti dansu co cpana lemi jamfu
.i to'i relber toi:     sei ry. boi ny. suksa jgari se'u
        mi dansu co kansa do
.i to'i nolraitix toi:  sei se'irta'a se'u
        .oi ti dansu co dukse le kamjbi
.i sei la .eluyd cu nerkla se'u
.i to'i nuzba krixa toi:        co'a zvati fa la miprycmen.
.i to'i nolraitix. toi: .ue .ui ti mapti dasni
.i to'i .eluyd. toi:    coi doi nolraiti'u.  .i mi manci lesi'o rinsa do
.i to'i nolraitix. toi: coi. miprycmen.  i do melbi cusku
.i to'i .eluyd. toi:    .i ba'e do melbi .i .e'o xu do curmi lenu do dansu
co kansa mi
.i to'i nolraitix. toi: .ai .ui
.i sei la .eluyd. joi la nolraitix. cu melbi dansu se'u
.i to'i nolraitix. toi: sei se'irta'a se'u
        .ui ti certu dansu
.i sei le junla lu'ela parecac. co'a se sance se'u
.i to'i .eluyd. toi:    .ue ma tcika
.i to'i nolraitix. toi: la parecac.
.i to'i .eluyd. toi:    .oi  .i .uu .ei mi cazi cliva  .i co'o doi se manci
.i sei la .eluyd cu bajra cliva
.i sei le la .eluyd befsri le vorme co'i rinju
.i sei la .eluyd mo'u cliva
.i sei le la .eluyd.befsri na mo'u cliva
.i sei .e'a le la .eluyd palku cu farlu
.i sei .e'a baku la .eluyd pu le nuncliva le palku cu laftygau
.i to'i nolraitix. toi: ju'i. miprycmen.  .i do puzi cirko ledo befsri
.i ko denpa
.i sei ny. le nuzba krixa cu tavla se'u
.i ko sisku lepu dasni be ti  .i mi minde la'edi'u
.i to'i nuzba krixa toi:        vi'o nolraitix. .ga'inai
.i to'i la pavber joi la relber toi:
ju'i. nolraitix. ko catlu mi
.i to'i nolraitix. toi: .oi


.i mupimu mo'o
.i to'i te lisri toi:   ni'o caki le bavlamdei vi le zdani be la sindereluyd.


.i xa mo'o vi le zdani be la sindereluyd.
.i sei la sindereluyd di'a brulu'i
.i sei lidnyzgi
.i sei vorme darxi
.i sei le nuzba krixa cu nerkla
.i to'i nuzba krixa toi:        coi doi se zdani
.i ca'i le banli nolraiti'u po'u la nolraitix. mi cpedu lenu ro nanmu pe vi le
gugde ba troci co mapti levi befsri
.i la nolraitix. sisku lepu dasni be ti
.i la nolraitix. cu jdice ledu'u spebi'o rixici
.i to'i pavber toi:     .ai mi troci pamoi  .i mi kakne lenu dasni ta
.i to'i relber toi:     na go'i  .i mi ja'a go'i
.i sei la pavber. la relber. darxi
.i to'i relber toi:     .oiro'o la pavber. pu darxi mi doi paf.
.i sei la relber. la pavber. tikpa
.i to'i pavber toi:     .oiro'o la relber. pu tikpa mi doi paf.
.i to'i nuzba krixa toi:        mi ba troci co maptygau ro do  .i ko jbikla
.i sei ko lepu'u le nuzba krixa cu troci co maptygau le befsri la pavber. noi
cinlydu'e cu zdile tigni
.i to'i pavber toi:     xu mi mapti le befsri
.i to'i nuzba krixa toi:        na go'i .iacai
.i sei ko lepu'u le nuzba krixa cu troci co maptygau le befsri la pavber. noi
planydu'e cu zdile tigni
.i to'i relber toi:     .i'acai mi mapti le befsri
.i to'i nuzba krixa toi:        na go'i .iacai
.i ju'i brulu'i ko jbikla mu'i lenu troci co mapti le befsri
.i to'i paf. toi:       la sindereluyd. na mapti
.i ri na pu zvati le nunsalci
.i ko di'a brulu'i doi sindereluyd.
.i to'i nuzba krixa toi:        la nolraitix. pu minde lenu ba'e ro nanmu
cu troci
.i ko jbikla doi brulu'i
.i sei le nuzba krixa lenu le befsri cu mapti la sindereluyd. cu troci
.i sei ja'a mapti
.i to'i nuzba krixa toi:        .ue .ui do mapti
.i to'i sindereluyd. toi:       .ia  .i mi pu dasni le befsri ca le prulamdei
.i to'i nuzba krixa toi:        ko klama la nolraitix. mu'i lenu spebi'o ri
.i to'i sindereluyd. toi:       .ai .uicai


.i xapimu mo'o
.i sei la .eluyd .e la nolraitix. le trixe cu zvati
.i sei li'a di'a gleki simkansa
.i to'i te lisri toi:   .i la .eluyd. spebi'o la nolraitix.
.i le remei bazize'u gleki ke kansa lifri
.i le drata cu mo
.i sei la paf. .e la pavber. .e la relber. la .eluyd. joi la nolraitix cu
sepli
.i sei nalgleki simlu
.i sei la pavber. la relber. darxi
.i to'i relber toi:     .oiro'o la pavber. pu darxi mi doi paf.
.i sei la relber. la pavber. tikpa
.i to'i pavber toi:     .oiro'o la relber. pu tikpa mi doi paf.
.i to'i paf. toi:       .oiro'a .u'inai
fa'o



----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:09:38 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Updated version of parser/glosser

Nora has given me a new version of the parser/glosser, which I have put at


http://www.lojban.org/files/gloss3-2.ZIP

This version fixes some bugs that affected certain more complex grammatical
expressions.  There are still a few more to be worked out.

Note that to run the just-posted version of la sinderelwyd. through the
glosser, you will need to break it into 2 pieces.

I also want to note that we have found a bug in the parser as well, which
causes it to lose text on certain grammatical errors and then to report the
truncated text as parsing correctly.  The first sentence of la sinderelwyd,
listing the characters, produced this error in a draft (ungrammatical)
form, with ungrammatical "le broda ce le brodi" (it needs a "ku" before the
"ce").

lojbab
----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There are 5 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

      1. vo la koan.
           From: Spigot <spigot@xxxxxx.xxxx
      2. Re: vo la koan.
           From: Spigot <spigot@xxxxxx.xxxx
      3. Re: Updated version of parser/glosser
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
      4. Re: Updated version of parser/glosser
           From: Seth Golub <seth@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
      5. pamo'o la dao de jin
           From: Spigot <spigot@xxxxxx.xxx>


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:20:13 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Spigot <spigot@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: vo la koan.

[from "the blue cliff record"]

pamo'o
.i le tadni puki preti cusku fi le prije fe lu ca le nu le ka lenku .e
     le ka glare cu tolcanci kei ta'i ma ma'a rivbi li'u
.i le prije cu cusku lu .e'u do klama le stuzi poi na'e ke glare ja
     lenku li'u
.i le tadni cu cusku lu vi ma stuzi co na'e ke glare ja lenku li'u
.i le prije cu cusku lu ca le nu lenku kei le lenku cu catlu do
     .i ca le nu glare kei le glare cu catlu do li'u


remo'o
.i lu do klama mi ma li'u selsku le prije le tadni
.i le tadni cusku lu la xitcan. li'u
.i le prije cusku lu ma ca se ckaji lei valsi je jufra vi la xitcan. li'u
.i lafti le tadni le janco
.i le prije cu darxi ty.
.i le tadni cu cusku lu .ue mi na mo'u tavla li'u
.i lafti le prije le janco
.i le tadni na'e tavka'e
.ija'ebo le prije cu darxi ty.


cimo'o
.i le ka jinku cu catra le ka bilma soi vo'a
.i le ro munje cu jinku .i ma sevzi do


vomo'o
lo prije pu cusku lu le ro tcedze fe'eroroi skicu le gidva je sidju
jmive bo prenu .ida'i ri goi ko'a penmi ci le bilma prenu goi ko'e
.i ta'i ma ko'a ko'e ka'e gidva .i mupli fa le visnarka'e prenu
.i ko'a ka'e lafmu'u le mruli .e le grana .iku'i le prenu na viska
.i le tinynarka'e prenu na'eka'e tirna lei voksa valsi .i mupli fa
le tavnarka'e prenu .i ko'a ka'e minde le prenu le nu tavla .iku'i le
prenu na tavla .i ta'i ma ko'a ko'e ka'e gidva  .i ganai ko'a na'eka'e
givda ko'e gi le nu banli ctuca cu se jalge no da li'u

ni'o le tadni puki cpedu le nu ciksi be di'u le prije .i le prije cu
cusku lu ko xadykro li'u .i le tadni co'i xadykro gi'e co'a sanli
.i le prije cu troci le nu grana tunta le tadni .i le tadni mo'iti'a
muvdu .i le prije cusku lu do na visnarka'e li'u .ibabo le prije
minde ko'e le nu mo'ica'u muvdu .i ca le nu le tadni mo'ica'u muvdu kei
le prije cu cusku lu do na tinynarka'e li'u .ibabo le prije cusku lu
xu do jimpe li'u .i le tadni cusku lu na go'i li'u .i le prije cusku
lu do na tavnarka'e li'u .icabo le tadni cu suksa pagre







_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:25:31 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Spigot <spigot@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: vo la koan.

[oops, very silly mistake; should be *catra*, not *catlu*] -->

> pamo'o
> .i le tadni puki preti cusku fi le prije fe lu ca le nu le ka lenku .e
>      le ka glare cu tolcanci kei ta'i ma ma'a rivbi li'u
> .i le prije cu cusku lu .e'u do klama le stuzi poi na'e ke glare ja
>      lenku li'u
> .i le tadni cu cusku lu vi ma stuzi co na'e ke glare ja lenku li'u
> .i le prije cu cusku lu ca le nu lenku kei le lenku cu catra do
>      .i ca le nu glare kei le glare cu catra do li'u




_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 00:39:47 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Updated version of parser/glosser

At 12:53 AM 7/20/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx> writes:
>
>> Nora has given me a new version of the parser/glosser
>
>Is the source available?  I don't have DOS.

No, and it would do little good if you had it.

The parser is a standalone program, written in C by John Cowan.  That is
relatively platform independent.  The glosser is written in Turbo-Pascal,
and Nora has made no attempt to make the program portable to other Pascals
(and hasn't any idea how to do so if she wanted to).

lojbab
----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:20:17 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Seth Golub <seth@xxxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Updated version of parser/glosser


Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx> writes:

>> Is the source available?
> No, and it would do little good if you had it.

Please don't drag me down in your efforts to impugn her code.


> Nora has made no attempt to make the program portable to other Pascals
> (and hasn't any idea how to do so if she wanted to).

That's why I was hoping for a copy of the source.

Never mind.  I'll just write it from scratch if I ever care enough to
bother.




_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
   Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:33:54 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Spigot <spigot@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: pamo'o la dao de jin

[trying to capture the terseness of the chinese, using a lot of <zo'u>.
don't know how many of these i'll do, but here's the first]


pamo'o
.i le tadji poi selsku zo'u na vitno tadji
.i le cmene poi selsku zo'u na vitno cmene
.i tolcme zo'u munje krasi
.i cmene zo'u mamta ro da
.i toldji zo'u ganse leka toltai
.i djica zo'u ganse leka tarmi
.i leka toltai leka tarmi cu mintu
.iku'i frica cmene
.i leka mintu cu manku
.i manku ne'i leka manku
.i kalri leika manci





_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There is 1 message in this issue.

 Topics in today's digest:

      1. Re: pamo'o la dao de jin
           From: Robin Turner <robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:44:03 +0300
   From: Robin Turner <robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx
Subject: Re: pamo'o la dao de jin

Spigot wrote:

> [trying to capture the terseness of the chinese, using a lot of <zo'u>.
> don't know how many of these i'll do, but here's the first]

{zo'u} has always confused me,but now I have my copy of the Book, I'll study
it again!

>
>
> pamo'o
> .i le tadji poi selsku zo'u na vitno tadji
> .i le cmene poi selsku zo'u na vitno cmene
> .i tolcme zo'u munje krasi
> .i cmene zo'u mamta ro da
> .i toldji zo'u ganse leka toltai
> .i djica zo'u ganse leka tarmi
> .i leka toltai leka tarmi cu mintu
> .iku'i frica cmene
> .i leka mintu cu manku
> .i manku ne'i leka manku
> .i kalri leika manci

Very nice - it's been almost two decades since I read any Chinese, so I
can't really comment on the accuracy of the translation. Just a few
stylistic points:


> .i le cmene poi selsku zo'u na vitno cmene
>

I'd say {selcme} rather than {selsku} here.  IIRC the original is "ming ke
ming fei chang ming" which is usually translated as "the name which can be
named" rather than "the name which names" - Chinese has a very cavalier
attitude to the passive!


> .i cmene zo'u mamta ro da
>

Again, I'd prefer {selcme}, with the sense of the thing named, or even
{selka'ecme} - the nameable.

Keep at it - I really like the style of this, and it seems close to my very
fuzzy recollection of the Chinese.

co'o mi'e robin.





_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There are 4 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

      1. banzu xipaci
           From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
      2. re: banzu xipaci
           From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
      3. Re: re: banzu xipaci
           From: xod <xod@xxxx.xxx>
      4. re: banzu xipaci
           From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:12:37 PDT
   From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: banzu xipaci

lo se bapli ko na fengu ('Don't let them get to you.')



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:35:55 PDT
   From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: re: banzu xipaci

la xod. cusku lu

.i ma mukti lu lo se bapli li'u

li'u .i mi spuda lu mibzda drata li'u zo'oru'e



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 17:52:51 -0400 (EDT)
   From: xod <xod@xxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: re: banzu xipaci

On Sat, 24 Jul 1999, michael helsem wrote:

> From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxx>
>
> la xod. cusku lu
>
> .i ma mukti lu lo se bapli li'u
>
> li'u .i mi spuda lu mibzda drata li'u zo'oru'e
>

.i xu do bapli la do zdani drata goi ko'a



-----
...about one pound of coal to create, package, store, and move two megabytes of data.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 16:26:55 PDT
   From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: re: banzu xipaci

vu'esai nago'i .i .ei mi fanta lomu'e vo'a bapli ro remna




_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There is 1 message in this issue.

 Topics in today's digest:

      1. Word-processing terms
           From: Robin Turner <robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:24:42 +0300
   From: Robin Turner <robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx
Subject: Word-processing terms

coi rodoi

One of my new quixotic projects is translating a word-processor
interface into Lojban. The WP in question is AbiWord (you can get
(very) alpha versions for most platforms from
http://www.abisource.com ).  The basic vocabulary needed, with
suggestions, is as follows - any help/corrections would be much
appreciated!  An asterisk represents possibly dubious
metaphorical usage.

file: datnyvei
new: cnino
open: kargau *
save: rejgau
save as: rejgau da
page setup: papri platu
print: prina
close: ga'orgau *
exit: fanmo

edit: valga'i
undo: ???
redo: raplyga'i
cut: rejvi'u
copy: fukpi
paste: bejvi'u
clear: vimcu
select all: ???
find: stufa'i
replace: basti
go to: klama (something more specific needed here, I think)
options: selxucna

view: jvinu
toolbars: plisri *
   standard: cnano
   formatting: platu
ruler: mrepli
status bar: tcinysri *
show paragraphs: ju'agri viska'eri'a
header and footer: ???
zoom: vinba'o

insert: setca
break: fendi
page numbers: papri namcu
date and time: detri ja tcika ("ja" because it's really "and/or")

field: ???
symbol: sinxa
picture: pixra

format: ???
font: ce'a
paragraph: ju'agri
bullets and numbering: barna ja namcu
borders and shading: korbi ja ba'armo'a
columns: paprykamju *
tabs: ???
bold: rotle'u
italic: salpyle'u
underline: nitli'i
strikethrough: greli'i
align: papristu
style: montadji (?)

window: canku *
help: sidju

co'o mi'e robin.






_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There is 1 message in this issue.

 Topics in today's digest:

      1. xa'unro'a xipare
           From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:35:13 PDT
   From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: xa'unro'a xipare


ba'o krefu le pamoi mu'e kelvo li cipapa (The point of
100 degrees has returned.) .i traji leka glacitsi (It's deep
summer now.) zu'i ganse lenu le kamgla cu danre levo'a
mulno xadni (You feel the heat press against your whole
body.) .i lenu zu'i catlu co pagre le crablaci po'u le
karce kei cu simsa lenu catlu co nenri le toknu be le
kliti be'o poi kalri  (Looking out through the windshield
of a car is like looking into a kiln.) ni'o ze'e la pavydei
ku mi bilga co jundi ko'a goi tu'a le girzu pajni .aunaisai
(On Monday i had jury duty.) .i to'e ckana ca le cacra
be li nomu pi'e cino .i sanli lumci .i taxfu punji (Got up
at half-past five, showered & dressed.) .i na firkre katna
.i na narpanci xukmi (Didn't shave. Didn't use deodorant.)
.i dasni lemi nitcreka poi tepygau ba'u (Put on my "scary"
t-shirt,) .i cpacu ri le vecnu be lo bilni rirci be'o netu'i le
sorve'o be lo tolcitno (e.g. one i bought at a Military Coll-
ectibles booth in an antiqus mall,) .i le creka ge pixra le
bongu stedu gi se tcita lu ko zunti le crerai zo'u ko mrobi'o
sepa'a le pu zunti li'u zo'o ba'usai (which has the image
of a grinning skull & the words, "Mess with the Best,/ Die
like the Rest".) ni'o ckafi klani fa vopimu smuci (4 1/2
scoops of coffee grounds.) .i klama fi le zdani ti'u li xapi'e
pamu (Left at a quarter past six.) .i ze'a karcytro seka'a
ko'e goi le stuzi be lenu velkla canja (Drove to the park-
&-ride,) .i cragusni ca la'edi'u (using my headlights.) ni'o
viknu ganse mibypre (Felt thick.) .i pu'o glare (It's not
yet hot.) .i facki le karce canlu poi jibni (Found a good
parking place at the park-&-ride.) .i co'a zutse ne'i le
clira trene be ko'i goi le te briju midju (Caught the early
train to Downtown.) .i ge tcidu le cukta poi se tcita lu le
cifnu lanme ka smaji li'u gi lamji .o'enai le xanka nepa'u
le kurfa xe bevri (Read "Silence of the Lambs" next to
a nervous man with a briefcase.) ni'o co'a kafke ca lenu
to'e stali le trene (I started coughing as soon as i got off
the train.) .i ju'a le la delys. ku vacri cu xlali (The air in
Dallas is bad,) .i ji'a vi ko'i zu'i ka'e ba'u viska le vacri
(but Downtown you can almost see it.) .i le carmi
malpanci be loi bravelkla noroi canci (A heavy reek of
bus exhaust never goes away.) .i toljinsa klaji .i tu'i roda
zu'i viska lei zdacau (The streets are dirty & the homeless
are everywhere you look.) .i ti pu stuzi le jibri be mi seki'u
lenu slabu .i ku'i na nelci (I used to work there, so i was
used to it, but i still didn't like it.) .i le za'o vasru .e le blaci
se porpi .e le jikca se fanta cu sinxa fi mi le zazvitno pe
le se fusra bapli .e le remna ka tolkurji .uinai (The trash,
the broken glass & the social outcasts, all spoke to me
grimly of the relentlessness of entropy & of human apathy.)
.i ba'onai le nunkla ku mi zukte tu'a le vorme lenu ze'a
cadzu mu'i lenu gu'e temci xaksu gi ciblu flecu (I got off
early so i could walk a bit, to waste time & to get my
blood running.) ni'o canai dasni le kalnurygau ki'u le
viska nitcu (I didn't put on my sunglasses yet, as i needed
to see.) .i da'i lo'e karce mi na rivbi vi ti (Cars wouldn't
stop for me here.) .i vi pa jaivi kruca ku mi bai cadzu
co ragve le karcydenmi sutlu'a secau lo xunre sidju (At
one point i had to cross a busy freeway ramp with no
stop light.) .ijebabo ca'o pagre le manku tubnu noi se
malpanci lo pinca (Then i went through a dark tunnel
that stank of piss.) .i ri'e .uo co'a nenri le pinfu dinju poi
cnino (At last i  entered the New Jail Building.) .i pagre
le cipra be le kamjinme ba lenu ge gasnu lenu lemi
daski cu kunti binxo gi djine vimcu (I went through the
metal detector after emptying my pockets & removing
my ring.) .i zutse vi le trixe be le brakumfa .i co'a
ciskycusku (I found a seat in the back of the hall &
began to write.)



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There is 1 message in this issue.

 Topics in today's digest:

      1. question
           From: Spigot <spigot@xxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:33:11 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Spigot <spigot@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: question

i'm trying to understand CAhA, its tricky.  the book sayson pg 243
that "lojban bridi without tense markers may not necessarily refer
to actual events: they may also refer to capabilities or potential
events."

if this is true, then a huge number of bridi that are said to be
"obviously" false are not, like
  lo nanmu cu ninmu
or
  lo'e glipre cu xabju le fi'ortu'a

aren't these bridi true because men are in fact capable of being women,
(they could prehaps get an operation), and the english are capable of
typically living in Africa (perhaps they all move there).

it seems that unless you specifically use <ca'a>, then your bridi
is true in some sense...   is this right?


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There are 3 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

      1. Re: question
           From: Robin Turner <robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx
      2. Re: question
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
      3. tecu'u la lojbab. gi'e loi drata
           From: Goran Topic <amadan@xxx.xxx>


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:46:49 +0300
   From: Robin Turner <robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xx>
Subject: Re: question

Spigot wrote:

> i'm trying to understand CAhA, its tricky.  the book sayson pg 243
> that "lojban bridi without tense markers may not necessarily refer
> to actual events: they may also refer to capabilities or potential
> events."

Yeah, that page confused the hell out of me too!

> if this is true, then a huge number of bridi that are said to be
> "obviously" false are not, like
>   lo nanmu cu ninmu
> or
>   lo'e glipre cu xabju le fi'ortu'a
>
> aren't these bridi true because men are in fact capable of being women,
> (they could prehaps get an operation), and the english are capable of
> typically living in Africa (perhaps they all move there).
>
> it seems that unless you specifically use <ca'a>, then your bridi
> is true in some sense...   is this right?

I'd agree in theory, since {lo nanmu cu ninmu} _could_ be equivalent to {lo
nanmu ba ninmu} i.e. some man will in the future be a woman.  The only bridi
which would definitely be false (irrespective of falsification by
observation) would be those which are contradictory irrespective of time and
place e.g.

li mu nu'a su'i li re li re

Even something like

lo barda cu cmalu

could be true if we're talking about a big thing that was or will be small,
or if it means something like

lo barda be fi lo manti cu cmalu fi lo xanto

However, in practice, tenseless selbri would default to "whatever time we're
talking about", so unless we knew from context that we were talking about a
past or future sex-change operation, {lo nanmu cu ninmu} would be as false
as {lo nanmu ca'a ninmu}.

Incidentally, some deities are hermaphrodite not in the sense of being
halfway between male and female, but in the sense of possessing both male
and female forms simultaneously.  In such a case {lo nanmu ca'a ninmu} could
be true!

co'o mi'e robin.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:51:24 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: question

At 02:33 PM 7/27/99 -0400, Spigot wrote:
>From: Spigot <spigot@xxxxxx.xxx>
>
>i'm trying to understand CAhA, its tricky.  the book sayson pg 243
>that "lojban bridi without tense markers may not necessarily refer
>to actual events: they may also refer to capabilities or potential
>events."
>
>if this is true, then a huge number of bridi that are said to be
>"obviously" false are not, like
>  lo nanmu cu ninmu
>or
>  lo'e glipre cu xabju le fi'ortu'a
>
>aren't these bridi true because men are in fact capable of being women,
>(they could prehaps get an operation), and the english are capable of
>typically living in Africa (perhaps they all move there).
>
>it seems that unless you specifically use <ca'a>, then your bridi
>is true in some sense...   is this right?

You can stretch potential tenses to such extremes, but the real examples
are things like "inflammable", or to refer to someone being a swimmer, even
though they are not actually in the water right now paddling.

lojbab
----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:27:25 +0200
   From: Goran Topic <amadan@xxx.xxxx
Subject: tecu'u la lojbab. gi'e loi drata

Translation follows.


ni'o .ui nu mi klama lo surstu kei bavlamdei
.i ba limna joi pilselgu'i joi surla bo co'e
gi'e .u'u.uuse'i claxu le skami vau fa mi
.i nalzvati masti

ni'o mi xenru co banske naldju co dukse doi lojbab.
.iku'i le ca me mi le pu me mi lo ni ke'a djuno ku zmadu
.i la lojban. cu drata bangu nunfrica selzu'e selfi'i
.i lo'enu cipra la sidbrsapiruorf. cu ralmu'i tu'a ly.
.ipau ri sedu'o le te frica ka'exu jai nibli da pe loi remna rarna bo
bangu kampu
.i ledu'u lo'e rafsi nunjo'e be mi cu rarna cu selji'i mi
.isejupau le la'ede'u nu nibli cu saske xamgu xu
.i pe'i lenu jarco ledu'u loi remna rarna bo bangu la lojban. lo'e
nunjvofi'i ca'a panra keiji'a sarcu tu'a lo'e nunskexau
.iku'i ka'e jarco .inaja so'ocu'o pe'i ke logji se zukte fa lenu pilno
lo selfi'i bangu vauvau pei
.i mi geirgei zo'o fau lo'enu ko mi bitygau ledu'u mi srera
.i cinri

co'o mi'e. goran. fa'o

























I'm going on my holidays tomorrow, there'll be swimming, and sunbathing,
and other leisurely activities... and I'll miss my computer :(
I'll be gone for a month.

I regret my still insufficient command of linguistics, lojbab, but
still, I know more than I did before... :) The goal in creating lojban
was to make a language which would be different from other languages.
The principal motive for its development was testing the Sapir-Whorf
hypothesis.
Keeping that in mind, can lojban be used for deducing the universals of
natural human languages? Despite the fact that stringing rafsi feels
very natural to me, would such a deduction be scientifically solid,
acceptable?
To make an acceptable scientific argument, I think it would be necessary
to show the parallelism between the compounding mechanisms in lojban and
natural languages. If you can do that, though, why need lojban?
Convince me I'm wrong and I'll be very happy. I find it an interesting
subject.


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There is 1 message in this issue.

 Topics in today's digest:

      1. Re: tecu'u la lojbab. gi'e loi drata
           From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 21:24:28 -0400
   From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: tecu'u la lojbab. gi'e loi drata

At 08:27 PM 7/28/99 +0200, Goran Topic wrote:
>From: Goran Topic <amadan@xxx.xxx>
>
>Translation follows.
>
>
>ni'o .ui nu mi klama lo surstu kei bavlamdei
>.i ba limna joi pilselgu'i joi surla bo co'e
>gi'e .u'u.uuse'i claxu le skami vau fa mi
>.i nalzvati masti
>
>ni'o mi xenru co banske naldju co dukse doi lojbab.
>.iku'i le ca me mi le pu me mi lo ni ke'a djuno ku zmadu
>.i la lojban. cu drata bangu nunfrica selzu'e selfi'i
>.i lo'enu cipra la sidbrsapiruorf. cu ralmu'i tu'a ly.
>.ipau ri sedu'o le te frica ka'exu jai nibli da pe loi remna rarna bo
>bangu kampu
>.i ledu'u lo'e rafsi nunjo'e be mi cu rarna cu selji'i mi
>.isejupau le la'ede'u nu nibli cu saske xamgu xu
>.i pe'i lenu jarco ledu'u loi remna rarna bo bangu la lojban. lo'e
>nunjvofi'i ca'a panra keiji'a sarcu tu'a lo'e nunskexau
>.iku'i ka'e jarco .inaja so'ocu'o pe'i ke logji se zukte fa lenu pilno
>lo selfi'i bangu vauvau pei
>.i mi geirgei zo'o fau lo'enu ko mi bitygau ledu'u mi srera
>.i cinri
>
>co'o mi'e. goran. fa'o
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I'm going on my holidays tomorrow, there'll be swimming, and sunbathing,
>and other leisurely activities... and I'll miss my computer :(
>I'll be gone for a month.
>
>I regret my still insufficient command of linguistics, lojbab, but
>still, I know more than I did before... :) The goal in creating lojban
>was to make a language which would be different from other languages.
>The principal motive for its development was testing the Sapir-Whorf
>hypothesis.
>Keeping that in mind, can lojban be used for deducing the universals of
>natural human languages? Despite the fact that stringing rafsi feels
>very natural to me, would such a deduction be scientifically solid,
>acceptable?
>To make an acceptable scientific argument, I think it would be necessary
>to show the parallelism between the compounding mechanisms in lojban and
>natural languages. If you can do that, though, why need lojban?
>Convince me I'm wrong and I'll be very happy. I find it an interesting
>subject.

mi cpedu lenu la nitcion cu spuda semu'i lenu ri djunymau

mi'e lojbab
----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There are 4 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

      1. skami lujvo
           From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
      2. RE: Updated version of parser/glosser
           From: trevor hill <thill@xxxxx.xxxx
      3. Re: Updated version of parser/glosser
           From: John Cowan <cowan@xxxxx.xxxx.xxxx
      4. skami tanru
           From: xod <xod@xxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:24:33 PDT
   From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: skami lujvo

open- selvisygau
close- cancygau
undo- fatpu'i
field- seltisysa'u lerli'i/nacli'i
window- pevyvro (note- this prefix for all figurative usages!)
go to- basyviska
header- gapseltcidu
footer- nitseltcidu
select all- rolcu'a
tabs- le'i jaibu'u sisti




_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:50:54 -0600
   From: trevor hill <thill@xxxxx.xxxx
Subject: RE: Updated version of parser/glosser

just run p2c on it...  it might have some problems, but another c coder
could clean it up fairly easily i think....

co'o
mi'e trevyr.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group [SMTP:lojbab@xxxxxx.xxxx
> Sent:	Tuesday, July 20, 1999 10:40 PM
> To:	Seth Golub
> Cc:	lojban@xxxxxxx.xxx
> Subject:	Re: [lojban] Updated version of parser/glosser
>
> From: Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx>
>
> At 12:53 AM 7/20/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@xxxxxx.xxx> writes:
> >
> >> Nora has given me a new version of the parser/glosser
> >
> >Is the source available?  I don't have DOS.
>
> No, and it would do little good if you had it.
>
> The parser is a standalone program, written in C by John Cowan.  That is
> relatively platform independent.  The glosser is written in Turbo-Pascal,
> and Nora has made no attempt to make the program portable to other Pascals
> (and hasn't any idea how to do so if she wanted to).
>
> lojbab
> ----
> lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@lojban.
> org
> Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
> 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
> Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
>   see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
>   Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist users:  YOU can win a $100 gift certificate to Amazon.com.
> http://www.onelist.com
> Check out the FRIENDS & FAMILY program to find out how.  See homepage.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx.xxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:10:03 -0400
   From: John Cowan <cowan@xxxxx.xxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Updated version of parser/glosser

trevor hill wrote:

> just run p2c on it...  it might have some problems, but another c coder
> could clean it up fairly easily i think....

Been there, done that, too many Turbo-specific library calls.
GNU Pascal might actually work better, but I haven't tried it.

--
	John Cowan	http://www.ccil.org/~cowan	cowan@xxxx.xxx
Schlingt dreifach einen Kreis um dies! / Schliesst euer Aug vor heiliger Schau,
Denn er genoss vom Honig-Tau / Und trank die Milch vom Paradies.
			-- Coleridge / Politzer


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:15:54 -0400 (EDT)
   From: xod <xod@xxxx.xxxx
Subject: skami tanru

These are suggestions and starting points for discussion, by no means do I
think these are definitive.

These are tanru, and after some discussion and editions, they should
become lujvo in the context of skami.

Program: skami pruce (is this in standard use?)
also (immaterial machine: mucti minji, especially when referring to
Object Oriented code)
Operating System:  skami pruce zbepi (want to convey it as the basis for
programs)
Internet: skami munje nirna
Software: tolmarji <aspect> skami (what's the word for "aspect"?)
Hardware: marji <aspect> skami
content: selcusku
hypertext: to'e linji selcusku
multimedia: ricfu selcusku
WWW: selcusku nirna

Data: lei datni (data-mass)
Information: tolciste fatci (facts-mass)
Knowledge: smuni fatci (meaning-mass)


do we have a word like "meta"?


-----
...about one pound of coal to create, package, store, and move two megabytes of data.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________


There are 5 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

      1. Re: Updated version of parser/glosser
           From: veion <veion@xxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxx.xxx
      2. banzu xipavo
           From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
      3. se krici
           From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
      4. degji srera
           From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
      5. re: skami tanru
           From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 11:41:13 +0300
   From: veion <veion@xxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: Re: Updated version of parser/glosser

> From: John Cowan <cowan@xxxxx.xxxx.xxx>
>
> trevor hill wrote:
>
> > just run p2c on it...  it might have some problems, but another c coder
> > could clean it up fairly easily i think....
>
> Been there, done that, too many Turbo-specific library calls.
> GNU Pascal might actually work better, but I haven't tried it.

There is also Free Pascal which has libs which are more or less compatible
with TurboPascal 7.

  co'o mi'e veion



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 11:19:25 PDT
   From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: banzu xipavo

pau kandi jonai manku



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 11:20:32 PDT
   From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: se krici

fanva di'e fo le selsanga bela feryn. i tu'e

ri'agi mivycai fa mi gi pruxi vo'a
.i ki'ugi cinmo fa mi gi vo'a remna
.i ta'i jundi fa mi gi vo'a cilre
.ije semu'igi zukte fa mi gi vo'a premulno

tu'u ("By my life be I spirit,/ By my heart be I
woman,/ By my eyes be I open,/ And by my hands be I
whole...")(Ferron, a Canadian folksinger of the 80's.)
co'omi'e maikl.



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 11:22:54 PDT
   From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: degji srera

lu ta'igi li'u drani



_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
   Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 11:28:25 PDT
   From: "michael helsem" <graywyvern@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: re: skami tanru

zo nirna naje zo terjudri .i lo nirna cu jmive



_______________________________________________________________________________
