WikiDiscuss

Posted by stevo on Tue 09 of Nov, 2004 01:09 GMT posts: 381

In a message dated 2004-09-13 9:26:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
webmaster@lojban.org writes:

> ca ro nu mi rere'u catlu lo skina kei mi cpacu lo so'i se cusku poi mi
> na cpacu ca lo pamoi
> ''Every time I see a movie for the second time I get all this dialogue
> that I missed the first time.''
>

Wouldn't some form of "jimpe" (with appropriate cmavo to mean 'come to
understand') be better than "cpacu" here? Then "na cpacu" could be replaced by
something like 'fail to understand'. This figurative use of "cpacu" just bothers
me.

stevo
p.s. Is this the appropriate list for this sort of response? There are so
many lojban lists now, and some are very specialized. I don't want to disrupt
anything unnecessarily.

Posted by rlpowell on Tue 09 of Nov, 2004 01:09 GMT posts: 14214

On Mon, Sep 13, 2004 at 06:13:11PM -0400,
MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com wrote:
> In a message dated 2004-09-13 9:26:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> webmaster@lojban.org writes:
>
>
> > ca ro nu mi rere'u catlu lo skina kei mi cpacu lo so'i se cusku
> > poi mi na cpacu ca lo pamoi
> >
> > ''Every time I see a movie for the second time I get all this
> > dialogue that I missed the first time.''
>
> Wouldn't some form of "jimpe" (with appropriate cmavo to mean
> 'come to understand') be better than "cpacu" here? Then "na
> cpacu" could be replaced by something like 'fail to understand'.
> This figurative use of "cpacu" just bothers me.

It doesn't mean "understand" it means "notice" or "hear". "sanji"
is probably better than "cpacu", though.

> p.s. Is this the appropriate list for this sort of response?
> There are so many lojban lists now, and some are very specialized.
> I don't want to disrupt anything unnecessarily.

This is fine, but in future please don't change the subject line.

-Robin

Posted by xorxes on Tue 09 of Nov, 2004 01:09 GMT posts: 1912

> > ca ro nu mi rere'u catlu lo skina kei mi cpacu lo so'i se cusku poi mi
> > na cpacu ca lo pamoi
> > ''Every time I see a movie for the second time I get all this dialogue
> > that I missed the first time.''
> >
> Wouldn't some form of "jimpe" (with appropriate cmavo to mean 'come to
> understand') be better than "cpacu" here? Then "na cpacu" could be replaced
> by
> something like 'fail to understand'. This figurative use of "cpacu" just
> bothers
> me.

Is {cpacu} meant to be only for physical objects? I've always assumed
it's much more general.

"Come to understand" would be {jmibi'o}. But the problem with {jimpe} is,
as usual, its place structure. It doesn't mean "x1 understands x2". It
means "x1 understands that x2 is true about x3". So what do we do with
the dialogue?

mi jmibi'o fi lo so'i se cusku
"I come to understand (that something is true about) all this dialogue."

mi jmibi'o tu'a lo so'i se cusku
"I come to understand (something involving) all this dialogue."

Neither option is very attractive. I suppose we could make a lujvo
ziljmi: "x1 understands x2", then ziljmibi'o: "x1 comes to
understand x2".

For some fortunate reason {sanji} was spared of the awkward place
structure, it doesn't mean "x1 is aware of fact x2 about x3", but
just plain "x1 is aware of x2", so I guess {sajbi'o} is an option
too.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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