WikiDiscuss

Posted by xorxes on Sun 27 of Feb, 2005 18:03 GMT posts: 1912

I have written the rules for generating lojban words, as opposed to the algorithm for breaking a speech stream into words, here:

Please check that I didn't miss anything.

(I didn't go here into the details of phonotactics: permissible clusters and such. Those can be found in:
.)

mu'o mi'e xorxes

Posted by xorxes on Sun 27 of Feb, 2005 22:09 GMT posts: 1912

>
> Re: Morphology: Rules of formation
>
> I have written the rules for generating lojban words, as opposed to the
> algorithm for breaking a speech stream into words, here:

<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Morphology%3A+Rules+of+formation>

>
> Please check that I didn't miss anything.
>
> (I didn't go here into the details of phonotactics: permissible clusters and
> such. Those can be found in:

<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Morphology%3A+syllables>

> .)
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
>
>
>
>
>

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>It can't contain la, lai, la'i, doi unless preceded by a
>consonant and/or followed by an h.

What about {laus} and {ala'um}? The rule should be "...and/or followed by a
non-consonant".

phma
--
Without glasses, I can't even distinguish smells...
-Les Perles de la médecine

Posted by xorxes on Sun 27 of Feb, 2005 22:09 GMT posts: 1912

> >It can't contain la, lai, la'i, doi unless preceded by a
> >consonant and/or followed by an h.
>
> What about {laus} and {ala'um}?

They're OK.

> The rule should be "...and/or followed by a
> non-consonant".

Right.

(I'm planning to remove the doi/la/lai/la'i stuff from my proposal
anyway. But I will keep it commented out so it can eventually be
restored if the change is not approved.)

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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>Between two cmavo of form CVCy (without an intervening pause) and a brivla or
CVV cmavo.

What about two cmavo of form CVCy and a longer cmavo?

phma
--
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Posted by xorxes on Mon 28 of Feb, 2005 20:48 GMT posts: 1912

> >Between two cmavo of form CVCy (without an intervening pause) and a brivla
> or
> CVV cmavo.
>
> What about two cmavo of form CVCy and a longer cmavo?

CVCyCVVV breaks as {CV Cy CVVV}, no need to pause, is there?

The only reason CVV cmavo are special is that they look
like rafsi, but longer (or shorter) cmavo don't.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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Posted by noras on Thu 03 of Mar, 2005 06:55 GMT posts: 23

At 12:13 PM 2/28/05 -0800, Jorge wrote:

>--- Pierre Abbat wrote:
>
> > >Between two cmavo of form CVCy (without an intervening pause) and a brivla
> > or
> > CVV cmavo.
> >
> > What about two cmavo of form CVCy and a longer cmavo?
>
>CVCyCVVV breaks as {CV Cy CVVV}, no need to pause, is there?
>
>The only reason CVV cmavo are special is that they look
>like rafsi, but longer (or shorter) cmavo don't.
>
>mu'o mi'e xorxes

How about "resytosmAbru"? re + sy + to (a CV, not a CVV) + smabru? Or
lujvo resytosmabru (as current language has it)?

mi'e noras noras@cox.net
Nora LeChevalier

On Wednesday 02 March 2005 21:13, Nora LeChevalier wrote:
> At 12:13 PM 2/28/05 -0800, Jorge wrote:
> >--- Pierre Abbat wrote:
> > > >Between two cmavo of form CVCy (without an intervening pause) and a
> > > > brivla
> > >
> > > or
> > > CVV cmavo.
> > >
> > > What about two cmavo of form CVCy and a longer cmavo?
> >
> >CVCyCVVV breaks as {CV Cy CVVV}, no need to pause, is there?
> >
> >The only reason CVV cmavo are special is that they look
> >like rafsi, but longer (or shorter) cmavo don't.
> >
> >mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
> How about "resytosmAbru"? re + sy + to (a CV, not a CVV) + smabru? Or
> lujvo resytosmabru (as current language has it)?

Good example. The rule I follow in valfendi is that a pause is required
between a cmavo of form Cy and the next word which contains CCV, CVV, or
CV'V. So if you wanted to say {re sy to smabru}, you have to pause between
{sy} and {to} or between {to} and {smabru}. I normally put the pause right
after the Cy unless the next word is {bu}.

phma
--
Without glasses, I can't even distinguish smells...
-Les Perles de la médecine

Posted by xorxes on Thu 03 of Mar, 2005 12:39 GMT posts: 1912

> At 12:13 PM 2/28/05 -0800, Jorge wrote:
>
> > > >Between two cmavo of form CVCy (without an intervening pause) and a
> brivla
> > > or
> > > CVV cmavo.
>
> How about "resytosmAbru"? re + sy + to (a CV, not a CVV) + smabru? Or
> lujvo resytosmabru (as current language has it)?

It's a lujvo, as in the current language. I should have said
"a string of one or more rafsi" instead of "a brivla", and that will
in fact also cover CVV cmavo. I will fix that in the wording of the
rules of formation, thanks. The relevant PEG rule is:

CVCy-lujvo <- CVC-rafsi y h? initial-rafsi* brivla-core / stressed-CVC-rafsi y
short-final-rafsi

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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Posted by xorxes on Thu 03 of Mar, 2005 12:55 GMT posts: 1912

> The rule I follow in valfendi is that a pause is required
> between a cmavo of form Cy and the next word which contains CCV, CVV, or
> CV'V.

That requires too much though. For example, you don't allow {.ibymai}
without pause, but that can't be anything but {.i by mai}.

The simple rule is to require a pause *always* after Cy. If we relax
the rule, then let's relax it as much as possible, not to some
arbitrary intermediate point.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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