WikiDiscuss

Small comments/suggestions:

1. na viska le munje te ki'i lo ka purci ku ba la'e de'u
2. Unseeable is the world of the past after this.

s/Unseeable/Unseen/

1. mi muvgau lo tivni le sorcu du'i lo rupnu be li pa re ki'o
2. I moved $12, 000 of televisions into storage.

There should be no space in #$12,000", I believe.

1. 'mi nelci lo xunre karce kai ti''
2. I like red cars, like that one.

Missing apostrophe in the example, so it does not render as italic.

1. pei da'i mi basti le mi mulno xekri taxfu lo mulno blabi taxfu se pa'a la xavier
2. What do you think of me replacing my all-black clothes with all white clothes, like Xavier?

Either "all-black" and "all-white", or "all black" and "all white".

1. za'a zo bancu cu brivla le'a le remoi
2. I observe that "bancu" is a brival of the second type.

s/brival/brivla/

1. ka'e rinka lo nu do krici lo du'u lo xanri loldi cu zasti se ba'i lo to'e xanri condi kevna
2. It is capable of causing you to believe there is an imaginary floor instead of a non-imaginary deep hole.

I think the translation here had square brackets around "It is", but that causes a broken external link on Tiki.

1. le merko gugde be ka'i le merko gugde jatna cu xusra lo du'u jamna
2. The United States, as represented by the president, declares war.

This has no bearing on the example (it could be used in a fictional context), but technically, the POTUS cannot declare war, only the US Senate.

1. sy sidju klama dy se rai lo ka sutra pe lo nu le xasli cu bajra
2. S helpfully want to D as fast as a donkey can run.

s/want/went/

-arj

On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 03:25:05AM -0700, wikidiscuss@lojban.org wrote:
> # mi muvgau lo tivni le sorcu du'i lo rupnu be li pa re ki'o
> # I moved $12, 000 of televisions into storage.
> There should be no space in #$12,000", I believe.

I prefer it with the space.

> # pei da'i mi basti le mi mulno xekri taxfu lo mulno blabi taxfu se pa'a la xavier
> # What do you think of me replacing my all-black clothes with all white clothes, like Xavier?
> Either "all-black" and "all-white", or "all black" and "all white".

The former.

> # le merko gugde be ka'i le merko gugde jatna cu xusra lo du'u jamna
> # The United States, as represented by the president, declares war.
> This has no bearing on the example (it could be used in a
> fictional context), but technically, the POTUS cannot declare war,
> only the US Senate.

Well, if you can come up with a good term for "senate"...

Besides, as of a few years ago, this is no longer true, remember?

All others fixed as suggested.

-Robin

>Examples of te ki'i Usage
>
>na viska le munje te ki'i lo ka purci ku ba la'e de'u
>Unseen is the world of the past after this.

I don't understand this either in Lojban or in English,
but if it's "the world of the past" it seems that {be te ki'i}
would be closer.

Now, {te ki'i} tags a two place relationship, so presumably
it's {lo ka ce'u purci ce'u}. {le munje be te ki'i lo ka purci} would
be not the world of the past but the world in which things are
in the past of other things, i.e. the opposite of a timeless world.
The usual world we live in is a world with the purci relationship.
{le munje be te ki'i lo ka purci} could refer to our ordinary
time-ordered world.

> Examples of du'i Usage
>
> mi muvgau lo tivni le sorcu du'i lo rupnu be li pa re ki'o
> I moved $12, 000 of televisions into storage.

Why is the $12,000 the worth of the televisions rather
than how much I charged for moving them into storage?
If it's the televisions, it should be {lo tivni ne du'i lo rupnu ...}

> Examples of pa'u Usage
>
>mi finti le minji pa'u be lo danlu selci
>I've invented this machine which includes animal cells.

s/pa'u be/be pa'u

> Examples of pa'a Usage
>
>pei da'i mi basti le mi mulno xekri taxfu lo mulno blabi taxfu
> tu'a se pa'a la xavier
>What do you think of me replacing my all-black clothes
>with all-white clothes, like Xavier?

s/basti/bastygau fi ... fe ...
s/tu'a se pa'a/pa'a tu'a

> Examples of ma'e Usage
>
>mi pilno lo rocki lo nu finti lo larcu dacti kei ma'e ta
>I use rock to create objects of art, including that one over there.

That rock or that object of art over there?

>Examples of ra'a Usage
>
>mi na birti tu'a ma kau poi cukta vau pe ra'a le do jufra
>I am not certain what book your sentence is about.
>
>le nuntalyli'u be la .odiseus. cu lisri lo nu klama lo se xabju kei
>la .xomer. ra'a le cukta be ro da bei la .xomer.
>The adventure of Odysseus is a story about going home by Homer >and
is pertained to by The Collected Works Of Homer.

{ra'a} seems to be duplicated here and in Epistemology sumtcita.

> Examples of se li'e Usage
>
>mi klama le zarci se li'e la .djan.
>I go to the store preceeding/being followed by John.

{mi ne se li'e la djan}

> Examples of te li'e Usage
>
>mi'o bajra te li'e lo cmalu bi'o lo barda
>We ran in order from smallest to largest.

{mi'o ne te li'e ...}

>Examples of ka'i Usage
>
>mi ritli cuxna pa jatna ka'i le mi mamti mu'i lo nu mi bilma
>I vote on one captain as represented by my mother, because I'm sick.

s/mamti/mamta

I don't understand the sentence though. Whom does the
mother represent?

> Examples of se ka'i Usage
>
> mi cpacu le jemna do se ka'i le te selplijibri be mi
> I get the jewel from you on behalf of my boss.

You act on behalf of my boss?

> la .xructciof. darxi lo jubme le cutci te ka'i lo tolvajni po'o
> Khruschev hit the table with the shoe only when representing
> at unimportant events.

{xructciof} will not be accepted by the current morphology.

> Examples of rai Usage
>
> mi pajni le nu jivna rai la .kim.
> I adjucated the competition that was won by Kim.

s/adjucated/adjudicated

Not sure why {rai la kim} would mean that Kim won though.
Could it be the competition in which Kim participated the most?

>Examples of se rai Usage
>
>sy sidju klama dy se rai lo ka sutra pe lo nu le xasli cu bajra
>S helpfully went to D as fast as a donkey can run.

• The* donkey, S's donkey, in fact.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

>Examples of te ki'i Usage
>
>na viska le munje te ki'i lo ka purci ku ba la'e de'u
>Unseen is the world of the past after this.

I don't understand this either in Lojban or in English,
but if it's "the world of the past" it seems that {be te ki'i}
would be closer.

Now, {te ki'i} tags a two place relationship, so presumably
it's {lo ka ce'u purci ce'u}. {le munje be te ki'i lo ka purci} would
be not the world of the past but the world in which things are
in the past of other things, i.e. the opposite of a timeless world.
The usual world we live in is a world with the purci relationship.
{le munje be te ki'i lo ka purci} could refer to our ordinary
time-ordered world.

> Examples of du'i Usage
>
> mi muvgau lo tivni le sorcu du'i lo rupnu be li pa re ki'o
> I moved $12, 000 of televisions into storage.

Why is the $12,000 the worth of the televisions rather
than how much I charged for moving them into storage?
If it's the televisions, it should be {lo tivni ne du'i lo rupnu ...}

> Examples of pa'u Usage
>
>mi finti le minji pa'u be lo danlu selci
>I've invented this machine which includes animal cells.

s/pa'u be/be pa'u

> Examples of pa'a Usage
>
>pei da'i mi basti le mi mulno xekri taxfu lo mulno blabi taxfu
> tu'a se pa'a la xavier
>What do you think of me replacing my all-black clothes
>with all-white clothes, like Xavier?

s/basti/bastygau fi ... fe ...
s/tu'a se pa'a/pa'a tu'a

> Examples of ma'e Usage
>
>mi pilno lo rocki lo nu finti lo larcu dacti kei ma'e ta
>I use rock to create objects of art, including that one over there.

That rock or that object of art over there?

>Examples of ra'a Usage
>
>mi na birti tu'a ma kau poi cukta vau pe ra'a le do jufra
>I am not certain what book your sentence is about.
>
>le nuntalyli'u be la .odiseus. cu lisri lo nu klama lo se xabju kei
>la .xomer. ra'a le cukta be ro da bei la .xomer.
>The adventure of Odysseus is a story about going home by Homer >and
is pertained to by The Collected Works Of Homer.

{ra'a} seems to be duplicated here and in Epistemology sumtcita.

> Examples of se li'e Usage
>
>mi klama le zarci se li'e la .djan.
>I go to the store preceeding/being followed by John.

{mi ne se li'e la djan}

> Examples of te li'e Usage
>
>mi'o bajra te li'e lo cmalu bi'o lo barda
>We ran in order from smallest to largest.

{mi'o ne te li'e ...}

>Examples of ka'i Usage
>
>mi ritli cuxna pa jatna ka'i le mi mamti mu'i lo nu mi bilma
>I vote on one captain as represented by my mother, because I'm sick.

s/mamti/mamta

I don't understand the sentence though. Whom does the
mother represent?

> Examples of se ka'i Usage
>
> mi cpacu le jemna do se ka'i le te selplijibri be mi
> I get the jewel from you on behalf of my boss.

You act on behalf of my boss?

> la .xructciof. darxi lo jubme le cutci te ka'i lo tolvajni po'o
> Khruschev hit the table with the shoe only when representing
> at unimportant events.

{xructciof} will not be accepted by the current morphology.

> Examples of rai Usage
>
> mi pajni le nu jivna rai la .kim.
> I adjucated the competition that was won by Kim.

s/adjucated/adjudicated

Not sure why {rai la kim} would mean that Kim won though.
Could it be the competition in which Kim participated the most?

>Examples of se rai Usage
>
>sy sidju klama dy se rai lo ka sutra pe lo nu le xasli cu bajra
>S helpfully went to D as fast as a donkey can run.

• The* donkey, S's donkey, in fact.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

On Mon, 23 May 2005, Jorge Llambas wrote:

>> la .xructciof. darxi lo jubme le cutci te ka'i lo tolvajni po'o
>> Khruschev hit the table with the shoe only when representing
>> at unimportant events.
>
> {xructciof} will not be accepted by the current morphology.

Then the current morphology is too restrictive.

Maybe we should add the issue to the "Notes" section, and go back and
revise when the morphology section is done.

--
Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/
The savvy DXer will usually bet a pair of nickels he can pinpoint the DXCC
country of the "chopity-chow-pit chow-chow-pi-chow" even before he hears the
call sign. -John F. Lindholm, QST vol. 66 no. 3 p. 83

---

> On Mon, 23 May 2005, Jorge Llambías wrote:
>
> >> la .xructciof. darxi lo jubme le cutci te
> ka'i lo tolvajni po'o
> >> Khruschev hit the table with the shoe only
> when representing
> >> at unimportant events.
> >
> > {xructciof} will not be accepted by the
> current morphology.
>
> Then the current morphology is too restrictive.
>
> Maybe we should add the issue to the "Notes"
> section, and go back and
> revise when the morphology section is done.
>
Inbsofar as the problem is with /io/ this could
easily be dropped; it is more important for
Russian than pronunciation. Why there is a
prov\blem (if there is) with /ctc/ is not clear objectively.

---

> On Mon, 23 May 2005, Jorge Llambías wrote:
>
> >> la .xructciof. darxi lo jubme le cutci te
> ka'i lo tolvajni po'o
> >> Khruschev hit the table with the shoe only
> when representing
> >> at unimportant events.
> >
> > {xructciof} will not be accepted by the
> current morphology.
>
> Then the current morphology is too restrictive.
>
> Maybe we should add the issue to the "Notes"
> section, and go back and
> revise when the morphology section is done.
>
Insofar as the problem is with /io/, this can
easily be dropped; it is more important for
Russian than for pronunciation. If the problem
is with /ctc/, it is a bit hard to justify objectively.

John E Clifford scripsit:

> Inbsofar as the problem is with /io/ this could
> easily be dropped; it is more important for
> Russian than pronunciation. Why there is a
> prov\blem (if there is) with /ctc/ is not clear objectively.

Note that the standard pronunciation has been "shsh" for many years:
"shch" is a hangover from 19th-century Leningrad pronunciation back
when that was the capital.

--
After fixing the Y2K bug in an application: John Cowan
WELCOME TO <censored> jcowan@reutershealth.com
DATE: MONDAK, JANUARK 1, 1900 http://www.ccil.org/~cowan

John E Clifford scripsit:

> Inbsofar as the problem is with /io/ this could
> easily be dropped; it is more important for
> Russian than pronunciation. Why there is a
> prov\blem (if there is) with /ctc/ is not clear objectively.

Note that the standard pronunciation has been "shsh" for many years:
"shch" is a hangover from 19th-century Leningrad pronunciation back
when that was the capital.

--
After fixing the Y2K bug in an application: John Cowan
WELCOME TO <censored> jcowan@reutershealth.com
DATE: MONDAK, JANUARK 1, 1900 http://www.ccil.org/~cowan

American English and (if memory serves) Mexican
Spanish, at least, have kept the old sound (well,
Texans being exceptions as usual). Apparently it
is still so for arj as well.

---

> John E Clifford scripsit:
>
> > Inbsofar as the problem is with /io/ this
> could
> > easily be dropped; it is more important for
> > Russian than pronunciation. Why there is a
> > prov\blem (if there is) with /ctc/ is not
> clear objectively.
>
> Note that the standard pronunciation has been
> "shsh" for many years:
> "shch" is a hangover from 19th-century
> Leningrad pronunciation back
> when that was the capital.
>
> --
> After fixing the Y2K bug in an application:
> John Cowan
> WELCOME TO <censored>
> jcowan@reutershealth.com
> DATE: MONDAK, JANUARK 1, 1900
> http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
>
>
>
>

John E Clifford scripsit:
> American English and (if memory serves) Mexican
> Spanish, at least, have kept the old sound (well,
> Texans being exceptions as usual). Apparently it
> is still so for arj as well.

No, I meant in Russian: the letter transliterated "shch" is
actually pronounced as a long palatalized "sh".
The older pronunciation "shch", as I said, was 19th-century
standard, based on St. Petersburg dialect when that was
the capital.

--
"Well, I'm back." --Sam John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>

On 5/23/05, John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
> John E Clifford scripsit:
> > American English and (if memory serves) Mexican
> > Spanish, at least, have kept the old sound (well,
> > Texans being exceptions as usual). Apparently it
> > is still so for arj as well.

The usual Spanish rendering is "Kruschev", which would go
into lojban as {krustcev} (no sh sound in Spanish). The
spelling "Jruschev" is more rare, because even though
J reflects better the Russian, no Spanish word begins with /xr/.

> No, I meant in Russian: the letter transliterated "shch" is
> actually pronounced as a long palatalized "sh".
> The older pronunciation "shch", as I said, was 19th-century
> standard, based on St. Petersburg dialect when that was
> the capital.

Both {xruciof} and {xrustcof} would be allowed with the current
morphology. The problematic syllable is {tciof}.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

On 5/23/05, John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
> John E Clifford scripsit:
> > American English and (if memory serves) Mexican
> > Spanish, at least, have kept the old sound (well,
> > Texans being exceptions as usual). Apparently it
> > is still so for arj as well.

The usual Spanish rendering is "Kruschev", which would go
into lojban as {krustcev} (no sh sound in Spanish). The
spelling "Jruschev" is more rare, because even though
J reflects better the Russian, no Spanish word begins with /xr/.

> No, I meant in Russian: the letter transliterated "shch" is
> actually pronounced as a long palatalized "sh".
> The older pronunciation "shch", as I said, was 19th-century
> standard, based on St. Petersburg dialect when that was
> the capital.

Both {xruciof} and {xrustcof} would be allowed with the current
morphology. The problematic syllable is {tciof}.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

Robin Lee Powell wrote:

>On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 03:25:05AM -0700, wikidiscuss@lojban.org wrote:
>
>
>># mi muvgau lo tivni le sorcu du'i lo rupnu be li pa re ki'o
>># I moved $12, 000 of televisions into storage.
>>There should be no space in #$12,000", I believe.
>>
>>
>
>I prefer it with the space.
>
>

http://www24.pair.com/glyptica/ThousandsSeparator.html

--
In Patriarchal America, women hold doors open for men.

Understood already; I was just pointing out that
the treatment in other languages is open to some
historic patterning that need not reflect the
present state of the home language (note that the
Lojban vowel is going to be wrong in any case).

---

> John E Clifford scripsit:
> > American English and (if memory serves)
> Mexican
> > Spanish, at least, have kept the old sound
> (well,
> > Texans being exceptions as usual). Apparently
> it
> > is still so for arj as well.
>
> No, I meant in Russian: the letter
> transliterated "shch" is
> actually pronounced as a long palatalized "sh".
> The older pronunciation "shch", as I said, was
> 19th-century
> standard, based on St. Petersburg dialect when
> that was
> the capital.
>
> --
> "Well, I'm back." --Sam John Cowan
> <cowan@ccil.org>
>
>
>
>

On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 06:56:25PM -0400, 2 = 3 wrote:
> Robin Lee Powell wrote:
>
> >On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 03:25:05AM -0700, wikidiscuss@lojban.org
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >># mi muvgau lo tivni le sorcu du'i lo rupnu be li pa re ki'o # I
> >>moved $12, 000 of televisions into storage. There should be no
> >>space in #$12,000", I believe.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I prefer it with the space.
> >
>
> http://www24.pair.com/glyptica/ThousandsSeparator.html

Huh. My bad, apparently. Will be fixed.

-Robin

On Monday 23 May 2005 18:17, Jorge Llambías wrote:
> On 5/23/05, John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
> > No, I meant in Russian: the letter transliterated "shch" is
> > actually pronounced as a long palatalized "sh".
> > The older pronunciation "shch", as I said, was 19th-century
> > standard, based on St. Petersburg dialect when that was
> > the capital.
>
> Both {xruciof} and {xrustcof} would be allowed with the current
> morphology. The problematic syllable is {tciof}.

I think {tciof} should be allowed, but I wouldn't write it that way. I'd write
{xructcof}. чо and чё are pronounced the same, and I've seen the word for
"devil" spelled both чорт and чёрт.

Ё is always stressed, even if that means two stresses in a word (e.g.
трёхсотый, three hundredth), so that makes it {xrucTCOF}.

phma
--
Mes règles mensuelles ont lieu une fois par an.
-Les Perles de la médecine

On Monday 23 May 2005 18:17, Jorge Llambías wrote:
> On 5/23/05, John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
> > No, I meant in Russian: the letter transliterated "shch" is
> > actually pronounced as a long palatalized "sh".
> > The older pronunciation "shch", as I said, was 19th-century
> > standard, based on St. Petersburg dialect when that was
> > the capital.
>
> Both {xruciof} and {xrustcof} would be allowed with the current
> morphology. The problematic syllable is {tciof}.

I think {tciof} should be allowed, but I wouldn't write it that way. I'd write
{xructcof}. чо and чё are pronounced the same, and I've seen the word for
"devil" spelled both чорт and чёрт.

Ё is always stressed, even if that means two stresses in a word (e.g.
трёхсотый, three hundredth), so that makes it {xrucTCOF}.

phma
--
Mes règles mensuelles ont lieu une fois par an.
-Les Perles de la médecine

Suggestion for do'e:

Add keywords "with" and "of".

--
Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/
Jeg er nok verdens sydligste sengevter. Forutsatt at ingen p basen p
Sydpolen driver med slikt, da. --Erling Kagge: Alene til Sydpolen

On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 10:17:32PM +0200, Arnt Richard Johansen
wrote:
> On Mon, 23 May 2005, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
>
> >>la .xructciof. darxi lo jubme le cutci te ka'i lo tolvajni po'o
> >>Khruschev hit the table with the shoe only when representing at
> >>unimportant events.
> >
> >{xructciof} will not be accepted by the current morphology.
>
> Then the current morphology is too restrictive.
>
> Maybe we should add the issue to the "Notes" section, and go back
> and revise when the morphology section is done.

Done.

-Robin

On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 11:36:25PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 06:56:25PM -0400, 2 = 3 wrote:
> > Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> >
> > >On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 03:25:05AM -0700,
> > >wikidiscuss@lojban.org wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >># mi muvgau lo tivni le sorcu du'i lo rupnu be li pa re ki'o #
> > >>I moved $12, 000 of televisions into storage. There should be
> > >>no space in #$12,000", I believe.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >I prefer it with the space.
> > >
> >
> > http://www24.pair.com/glyptica/ThousandsSeparator.html
>
> Huh. My bad, apparently. Will be fixed.

Done.

-Robin

On Sat, May 28, 2005 at 12:18:37AM +0200, Arnt Richard Johansen
wrote:
> Suggestion for do'e:
>
> Add keywords "with" and "of".

Done. Any others? "for"?

-Robin

On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 04:38:04PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> >Examples of te ki'i Usage
> >
> >na viska le munje te ki'i lo ka purci ku ba la'e de'u
> >
> >Unseen is the world of the past after this.
>
> I don't understand this either in Lojban or in English,

Nor do I, really.

> but if it's "the world of the past" it seems that {be te ki'i}
> would be closer.

True. Done.

> Now, {te ki'i} tags a two place relationship, so presumably it's
> {lo ka ce'u purci ce'u}. {le munje be te ki'i lo ka purci} would
> be not the world of the past but the world in which things are in
> the past of other things, i.e. the opposite of a timeless world.
> The usual world we live in is a world with the purci relationship.
> {le munje be te ki'i lo ka purci} could refer to our ordinary
> time-ordered world.

Other suggestions welcome. IIRC that was the *only* live usage I
could find.

> > Examples of du'i Usage
> >
> > mi muvgau lo tivni le sorcu du'i lo rupnu be li pa re ki'o
> >
> > I moved $12, 000 of televisions into storage.
>
> Why is the $12,000 the worth of the televisions rather than how
> much I charged for moving them into storage? If it's the
> televisions, it should be {lo tivni ne du'i lo rupnu ...}

Done.

> > Examples of pa'u Usage
> >
> >mi finti le minji pa'u be lo danlu selci
> >
> >I've invented this machine which includes animal cells.
>
> s/pa'u be/be pa'u

Done.

> > Examples of pa'a Usage
> >
> >pei da'i mi basti le mi mulno xekri taxfu lo mulno blabi taxfu
> >tu'a se pa'a la xavier
> >
> >What do you think of me replacing my all-black clothes with
> >all-white clothes, like Xavier?
>
> s/basti/bastygau fi ... fe ...

basygau, rather.

Done.

> s/tu'a se pa'a/pa'a tu'a

Done.

> > Examples of ma'e Usage
> >
> >mi pilno lo rocki lo nu finti lo larcu dacti kei ma'e ta
> >
> >I use rock to create objects of art, including that one over
> >there.
>
> That rock or that object of art over there?

Both. Does it matter? Whatever is being pointed at will resolve
the issue.

> >Examples of ra'a Usage
> >
> >mi na birti tu'a ma kau poi cukta vau pe ra'a le do jufra
> >
> >I am not certain what book your sentence is about.
> >
> >le nuntalyli'u be la .odiseus. cu lisri lo nu klama lo se xabju
> >kei la .xomer. ra'a le cukta be ro da bei la .xomer.
> >
> >The adventure of Odysseus is a story about going home by Homer
> >and is pertained to by The Collected Works Of Homer.
>
> {ra'a} seems to be duplicated here and in Epistemology sumtcita.

That's A Bug.

Moved to Epistemology.

> > Examples of se li'e Usage
> >
> >mi klama le zarci se li'e la .djan.
> >
> >I go to the store preceeding/being followed by John.
>
> {mi ne se li'e la djan}

Done.

> > Examples of te li'e Usage
> >
> >mi'o bajra te li'e lo cmalu bi'o lo barda
> >
> >We ran in order from smallest to largest.
>
> {mi'o ne te li'e ...}

Done.

> >Examples of ka'i Usage
> >
> >mi ritli cuxna pa jatna ka'i le mi mamti mu'i lo nu mi bilma
> >
> >I vote on one captain as represented by my mother, because I'm
> >sick.
>
> s/mamti/mamta
>
> I don't understand the sentence though. Whom does the mother
> represent?

The speaker. The mother brings in the vote for the son.

Would you prefer ne?

> > Examples of se ka'i Usage
> >
> > mi cpacu le jemna do se ka'i le te selplijibri be mi
> >
> > I get the jewel from you on behalf of my boss.
>
> You act on behalf of my boss?

What? No. Why would it mean that?

> > Examples of rai Usage
> >
> > mi pajni le nu jivna rai la .kim.
> >
> > I adjucated the competition that was won by Kim.
>
> s/adjucated/adjudicated
>
> Not sure why {rai la kim} would mean that Kim won though. Could it
> be the competition in which Kim participated the most?

It could be many things, certainly.

Seems that in this context, though, {traji lo ka certu kei fo ro
jivna} seems pretty reasonable.

How about a two-stager?

"I adjucated the competition at which Kim was superlative (in some
fashion unspecified)."

"I adjucated the competition that was won by Kim (or in which Kim
participated the most, or was in some other way superlative;
context dependent)."

> >Examples of se rai Usage
> >
> >sy sidju klama dy se rai lo ka sutra pe lo nu le xasli cu bajra
> >
> >S helpfully went to D as fast as a donkey can run.
>
> *The* donkey, S's donkey, in fact.

Erm, wouldn't S *be* the donkey, since it's the one going?

Changed to:

S helpfully went to D as fast as the donkey could run.

-Robin

On 6/4/05, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 04:38:04PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> > >Examples of ka'i Usage
> > >
> > >mi ritli cuxna pa jatna ka'i le mi mamti mu'i lo nu mi bilma
> > >
> > >I vote on one captain as represented by my mother, because I'm
> > >sick.
> >
> > s/mamti/mamta
> >
> > I don't understand the sentence though. Whom does the mother
> > represent?
>
> The speaker. The mother brings in the vote for the son.
>
> Would you prefer ne?

Yes.

> > > Examples of se ka'i Usage
> > >
> > > mi cpacu le jemna do se ka'i le te selplijibri be mi
> > >
> > > I get the jewel from you on behalf of my boss.
> >
> > You act on behalf of my boss?
>
> What? No. Why would it mean that?

{do} is closer, why wouldn't it mean that? Because {mi} is the agent?

> > >Examples of se rai Usage
> > >
> > >sy sidju klama dy se rai lo ka sutra pe lo nu le xasli cu bajra
> > >
> > >S helpfully went to D as fast as a donkey can run.
> >
> > *The* donkey, S's donkey, in fact.
>
> Erm, wouldn't S *be* the donkey, since it's the one going?

The donkey is vehicling for S (sy klama fu le xasli).

mu'o mi'e xorxes

On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 01:40:55AM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> On 6/4/05, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> > On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 04:38:04PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> > > >Examples of ka'i Usage
> > > >
> > > >mi ritli cuxna pa jatna ka'i le mi mamti mu'i lo nu mi bilma
> > > >
> > > >I vote on one captain as represented by my mother, because
> > > >I'm sick.
> > >
> > > s/mamti/mamta
> > >
> > > I don't understand the sentence though. Whom does the mother
> > > represent?
> >
> > The speaker. The mother brings in the vote for the son.
> >
> > Would you prefer ne?
>
> Yes.

Done.

> > > > Examples of se ka'i Usage
> > > >
> > > > mi cpacu le jemna do se ka'i le te selplijibri be mi
> > > >
> > > > I get the jewel from you on behalf of my boss.
> > >
> > > You act on behalf of my boss?
> >
> > What? No. Why would it mean that?
>
> {do} is closer, why wouldn't it mean that? Because {mi} is the
> agent?

Ah. I suppose that's what I had in mind, yes. ne added.

> > > >Examples of se rai Usage
> > > >
> > > >sy sidju klama dy se rai lo ka sutra pe lo nu le xasli cu
> > > >bajra
> > > >
> > > >S helpfully went to D as fast as a donkey can run.
> > >
> > > *The* donkey, S's donkey, in fact.
> >
> > Erm, wouldn't S *be* the donkey, since it's the one going?
>
> The donkey is vehicling for S (sy klama fu le xasli).

• nod*.

-Robin