Wiki page BPFK Section: Evidentials changed by arj Posted by pycyn on Tue 09 of Aug, 2005 00:03 GMT posts: 2388 Use this thread to discuss the Wiki page BPFK Section: Evidentials changed by arj page.
Posted by pycyn on Tue 09 of Aug, 2005 00:03 GMT posts: 2388 <<! Proposed Definitions And Examples Proposed Definition of ba'a ba'a (UI2) I anticipate. This word is an attitudinal, that is, it directly expresses an emotion on the part of the speaker. This word is part of a scale; the base attitudinal word indicates that the speaker is feeling I expect, the base word followed by cu'i indicates that the speaker is feeling I experience, and the base word followed by nai indicates that the speaker is feeling I remember.(cf. bavykri, lifri, morji) Keywords: Examples of ba'a Usage Examples of ba'a Usage ba'a seems to be used in a mostly non-temporal sense. That is, it is rarely used to express "I expect that X will happen", but rather something like "I presume that X would be the case". ba'anai does seem to be unambiguously used to refer to things in the past. Temporal usages ba'a do bazu djuno fi ro djedi I expect that in the far future, you will know every day. .ua .i ba'anai Oh yeah, I remember now. Non-temporal usages .i y xu ro pipybanfi cu respa - ''ba'a na mabru'' Are frogs reptiles? I don't expect them to be mammals. ''.i lenu mi joi la tal. puzi casnu ti cu mukti lenu mi te preti fo do .i ba'a loi mlatu loi gerku cu zmadu leka kukte .i xu tugni'' Me and Tal's recent discussion prompted me to ask you. I expect cats to taste better than dogs. Do you agree? ma se xabju do vi la astn - ''ba'a vi la ubuty. xabju'' Where near Austin do you live? Probably near UT. ba'a do xabju le jecrsautkarolaina You probably live in South Carolina. I tentatively rule that usage is in error, and that the temporal interpretation should remain/become the official interpretation.>> Amen and hallelujah! <<!! Proposed Definition of ba'a cu'i ba'a cu'i (UI*2) I experience. This word is an attitudinal, that is, it directly expresses an emotion on the part of the speaker. This word is part of a scale; the base attitudinal word indicates that the speaker is feeling I expect, the base word followed by cu'i indicates that the speaker is feeling I experience, and the base word followed by nai indicates that the speaker is feeling I remember. Keywords: Examples of ba'a cu'i Usage>> How is this differentiated from the alter "I experience" that parallels "I hear" (and "I see"?)? Proposed Definition of ba'a nai ba'a nai (UI*2) I remember. This word is an attitudinal, that is, it directly expresses an emotion on the part of the speaker. This word is part of a scale; the base attitudinal word indicates that the speaker is feeling I expect, the base word followed by cu'i indicates that the speaker is feeling I experience, and the base word followed by nai indicates that the speaker is feeling I remember.>> These are the classic psychological roots of tense and should probably be kept that way. <<!! Proposed Definition of ja'o ja'o (UI2) I conclude. This word is an attitudinal, that is, it directly expresses an emotion on the part of the speaker. evidential: I conclude(cf. selni'i, ni'ikri)>> Note, no premises need to be mentioned <<!! Proposed Definition of ju'a ju'a (UI2) I state. This word is an attitudinal, that is, it directly expresses an emotion on the part of the speaker. This word is part of a scale; the base attitudinal word indicates that the speaker is feeling evidential: I state, and the base word followed by nai indicates that the speaker is feeling >> Feeling what? The next bit does not seem to finish this section: <<(default) elliptical/non. -specific basis(cf. xusra)>> <<!! Proposed Definition of ru'a ru'a (UI2) I postulate. This word is an attitudinal, that is, it directly expresses an emotion on the part of the speaker. evidential: I postulate(cf. sruma)>> Needs to say something about the logical role that postulation (and assumption?) play in converastion. As it stands it sounds like it only applies in say science. <<!! Proposed Definition of su'a su'a (UI2) I generalize. This word is an attitudinal, that is, it directly expresses an emotion on the part of the speaker. This word is part of a scale; the base attitudinal word indicates that the speaker is feeling I generalize, the base word followed by cu'i indicates that the speaker is feeling I particularize; discursive: abstractly, and the base word followed by nai indicates that the speaker is feeling concretely.(cf. sucta, sucni'i) Keywords: Examples of su'a Usage Proposed Definition of su'a nai su'a nai (UI*2) I particularize. This word is an attitudinal, that is, it directly expresses an emotion on the part of the speaker. This word is part of a scale; the base attitudinal word indicates that the speaker is feeling I generalize, the base word followed by cu'i indicates that the speaker is feeling I particularize; discursive: abstractly, and the base word followed by nai indicates that the speaker is feeling concretely.>> Thses might serve in lieu of the missing modals for "generalization" and "particularization" I wonder if there is also a middle ground. <<;za'a (UI2): I observe. This word is an attitudinal, that is, it directly expresses an emotion on the part of the speaker. evidential: I observe(cf. zgana, lanli) Keywords:>> How contrast with the earlier {ba'anai}? Presumably the difference is between the notion of how the information was available to one and how one came to know it (even though it ewas in the past). The word "emotion" (even "attitude") just makes no sense throughout this section (and I am not sure any one word works throughout. I think you all may have to face the fact that there is not boiler plate for these items and actually consider what each of them means.