WikiDiscuss

As usual, corrections to which I agree removed.

On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 09:16:26AM -0700, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
>
> > Each new ce'u is a new variable. To bind multiple places to the
> > same Lambda variable, use ce'u goi ko'a goi ko'e or similar and
> > scatter the bound
>
> I suppose that's meant to be ce'u goi ko'a ce'u goi ko'e

No! Absolutely not! It's meant to bind two variables to the *same*
ce'u; your example doesn't solve the problem.

> > a way as to have a true bridi result from the combination. To
> > reject the basis of a question (i.e., to indicate that there is no
> > value that could make that bridi true), use na'i or no da.
>
> Rejecting the basis of a question is different from indicating that no
> value can make the bridi true. {no da} is an ordinary answer, {na'i}
> negates the presuppositions or implicatures involved in the question.

True. Pulled na'i out, added:

A more extreme rejection of the presuppositions or implicatures involved
in a question is to reply with na'i.

> > !! Examples of zi'o Usage
> >
> > loi jmive cu se zbasu zi'o loi selci ''Living things are made of
> > cells.''
> > The existence of a maker that makes living things from cells is
> > explicitely denied.
>
> The existence of a maker is neither denied nor asserted. It's just a
> relationship between something and its material.

Point. I seem to have had some problems with zi'o.

> > lo pinsi be zi'o na se sarcu lo vimcu
> > Pencils which mark on nothing do not require a remover.
> > Loosely: Broken pencils don't need erasers.
>
> That's not what zi'o does. The {pinsi be zi'o} relationship is a
> relationship between a pencil and its structure, it says nothing about
> having or lacking marking power.

True. It includes the frame substance, though.

> > lo nu morsi cu zi'o zasti
> > Death is non-existence.
> > Loosely translated. lo nu morsi goes in the second place of
> > zasti.
>
> This one is ungrammatical.

Gah. You're right.

Looking for a replacement example, I found:

mi tugni le se cusku po la bab. zi'o po'u lu zgana le cnino cmima
nuncansu gi'ebabo stidi le cnino javni li'u

• BOGGLE*. WTF does "zi'o po'u" mean?

Replaced with lo cmene be zi'o cu zvati je jundi do

> > !! Proposed Definition of zo'e
> >
> > ;zo'e (KOhA7): Unspecif it. zo'e is a pro-sumti (meaning it
> > takes the place of a fully-specified sumti).
> ...
> > In particular, zo'e can represent sumti of any complexity,
> > including abstractions, relative clauses, relative sumtcita, and
> > combinations thereof.
>
> I think the idea that {zo'e} represents another sumti is wrong.
> {zo'e} refers to some obvious or irrelevant value(s).

Point.

zo'e can represent a referant of any complexity. To fully specify
the thing represented by zo'e may require very complex Lojban,
including abstractions, relative clauses, relative sumtcita, and
combinations thereof.

-Robin

--
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/
Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!"