WikiDiscuss

On Tue, May 31, 2005 at 06:47:10PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> On 5/31/05, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> > On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 12:18:24PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> > > > du'o (BAI) Known by... Tags a sumti as fitting the first
> > > > place of djuno. Augments the bridi in which it occurs,
> > > > adding an extra, un-numbered place with the meaning of the
> > > > first place of djuno and then fills it with the tagged
> > > > sumti. In other words, the tagged sumti indicates that the
> > > > event described by the bridi is known by, according to, or
> > > > information gained from the referent of the tagged sumti.
> > > > See also: djuno, se du'o, te du'o, ve du'o.
> > >
> > > If {du'o} is to have this extended meaning, we should not say
> > > that the tagged sumti fills the x1 of djuno.
> >
> > I don't see a conflict there. Can you expand on that.
>
> A knower is not the same as a source of information. Someone may
> nknow something and not inform anyone, and someone who doesn't
> know may still emit information.
>
> "According to X, broda" makes a different claim than "as X knows,
> broda".

OK. Fixed.

> > > > .i na'e zasti du'o la gugl. Does not exist, according to
> > > > Google.
> > >
> > > Would we say, for exampole, {la gugl djuno lo du'u na'e
> > > zasti}?
> >
> > Sure. Why not?
>
> Well, maybe after the singularity. Don't you have to have
> cognition in order to know? But my objection wasn't really because
> of that.

Right; that's outside the BPFK's scope.

> If {du'o} means "as X knows", then that would say, "it does not
> exist, as Google knows", not "for all Google knows".

Hmmm. OK, example dropped.

> > > > du'o la rodjer.klark lo datni cu kakne lo nu djica le ka
> > > > zifre Data is capable of wanting to be free, according to
> > > > Rodger Clarke.
> > >
> > > Or {la rodjer klark djuno lo du'u lo datni ...}
> >
> > I would certainly feel comfortable phrasing it that way.
>
> To me those are two different things. If I don't think that data
> wants to be free, I won't say that R.C. knows it.

I've edited the translation to:

Data is capable of wanting to be free, as Rodger Clarke knows.

Is that OK?

> > > > Examples of cu'u Usage
> > > >
> > > > la .apasionatas pe cu'u la .artr. rubnstain. cu se nelci mi
> > > >
> > > > "The Appassionata", played by Arthur Rubenstein, is liked by
> > > > me.
> > >
> > > How do we say "Arthur Rubenstein is now playing The
> > > Appassionata"?
> >
> > Erm, that's what we just said, is it not? Except for the "now"
> > part.
> >
> > {la .apasionatas ca se cusku la .artr. rubnstain.}, I suppose.
>
> So {apasionatas} is the name of something like a text?

Yes. It's a musical work, in fact.

> > > s/gasnu co runme/rumgau
> > >
> > > (As it is, the grana are in the temperature place.)
> >
> > *nod*
> >
> > Mind adding it to jbovlaste for me?
>
> -gau lujvo have trivial place structure if the place structure of
> the first component is known, so there is no need to add it.

Not for you, but jbovlaste isn't just for people like you or me.
It's for alll levels of Lojbanist, including my gf that doesn't
speak a word of the language but reads my LiveJournal entries with
jbofihe -x and jbovlaste.

> > > >Examples of tai Usage
> > > >
> > > >loi cidjrburito noi barda tai lo'e stedu
> > > >"A burrito as big as a head."
> > >
> > > s/tai/tai tu'a
> >
> > Why?
>
> Isn't it {noi ke'a barda tai lo nu lo'e stedu cu barda}?

Can something be in the farm of an event? I don't think so, but
then I don't understand tamsmi.

-Robin