WikiDiscuss

pc:
> How did I miss the shift to plural
> quantification? If there are four apples then
> they can be the referents only if plural
> references are dealt with.., they are not in
> standard Lojban.

I'm working under the definitions proposed in BPFK Section: gadri
<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=BPFK+Section%3A+gadri>

> > The fractional always indicates a fraction of the
> > referent: a fraction of a set of apples for {le'i plise},
> > a fraction of a group of apples for {lei plise}, a fraction
> > of an individual apple for {le plise}.
>
> But you just said the referent was the four
> apples, not some one of them.

Yes, that's why I said that when the sumti has more than one referent
the fractional indicates a fraction of one of them, without specifying
which one. So the general formula is:

piPA sumti = lo piPAse'i be lo pa me sumti
"A piPA fraction of one of the sumti"

This works also when sumti has a single referent, in which case
"one of the sumti" is the one referent.

> > 3.5 le vo plise = 3.5 of the 4 apples
> > 3.0 le vo plise = 3.0 of the 4 apples
> > 2.5 le vo plise = 2.5 of the 4 apples
> > 2.0 le vo plise = 2.0 of the 4 apples
> > 1.5 le vo plise = 1.5 of the 4 apples
> > 1.0 le vo plise = 1.0 of the 4 apples
> > 0.5 le vo plise = 0.5 of the 4 apples
>
> Ahah! It is not partitiveness that is the problem
> but whether {piPA} as Q1 is an absolute or a
> proportional number. The thrust from {le} and
> {le'i} is that it is proportional (as it also
> seems to be for Q2). But when we get to {le}
> (and{lo}?) it becomes absolute. I am afraid I
> don't yet see why; the objects referred to seem
> to be of the same sort.

It is always a fraction of the referent. It is just that
the referents of {lei plise} and {le'i plise} are groups and
sets, whereas the referents of {le} are the apples.

Are you proposing that {pimu le vo plise} = {re le vo plise}?
What would you then make of {repimu le vo plise}?

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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